SE Prosecution

[mea9]

Hello,

This is my first time here and I have been reading myself into a rabbit hole on this forum. I have found some very helpful things but I would also like to get some personal advice if you can.

I was stopped yesterday (5th Dec) at Gravesend and told I’d be prosecuted for not having the right ticket. I was coming from Woolwich Arsenal and I didn’t buy a ticket as I was coming straight from the DLR so I only tapped my card. I got to gravesend and realised I needed a ticket so I bought the next available one and grabbed it was cheaper from Northfleet to Gravesend. The ticket officer stopped me, questioned and realising I wouldn’t get away with it, I told the truth. He was initially going to give me a fine and then seemed to change his mind because I was getting a little anxious and asking questions — he seemed irritated by this. No excuses but it had been a really **** day and I had already missed my last bus home and I asked what I needed to do so I could please go home. He then said he would prosecute me and took my information. He asked if my intent was to get a cheaper fare and since I couldn’t lie, I told the truth. I went back and apologised to him and he said it was fine — nothing was going to happen, they would write me a letter, ask for a fine and tell me not to do it again. I am really scared of a criminal conviction and I’m thinking worst case scenario. This is my first time anything like this has happened to ma, I have a clean DBS, an upstanding student and have never had a run in like this before.

I already have a draft of a letter for when they reach out to me:

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am writing in reply to your recent letter.

On the 5th of December 2023, I was irresponsible and made a terrible lapse of judgment by not purchasing the correct ticket for my journey from Woolwich Arsenal to Gravesend. I instead purchased a ticket from Northfleet to Gravesend. I am beyond disappointed in myself and I am profoundly remorseful for my action. I completely understand the strain this not only puts on the railway companies but also my fellow passengers who are diligently paying their fares.

I cannot make any excuses, I made a terrible mistake and I want nothing more than to rectify this mistake with an out of court settlement. Please, I am willing and ready with immediate effect to pay anything that will compensate the railway company and any administrative fees incurred. I truly understand the gravity of what I have done, please give me a chance to amend myself. A criminal record would be profoundly damaging for me, I am an aspiring PhD candidate. As there are no excuses, please allow me to make this right with an out of court settlement.

I thank you for patience and compassion, and look forward to hearing from you.

I know it is just a waiting game but please if you could possible give me some peace of mind, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you so much x

 

[Haywain]

To start with, wait for a letter to arrive - you will have been reported for potential prosecution and the company, Southeastern, will write to you for your version of events before they issue a summons. As for the letter you have written, it comes across to me as a little over the top - the idea is all good but a little exaggerated. When it comes down to it the company want some money from you, and an indication that you won't repeat this behaviour. If you've read a number of threads you will have seen posts by @Hadders with recommendations on how to respond, and that is the formula to be followed.

 

[mea9]

Thank you for this! I guess I can definitely understand the exaggeration, I am panicking and want it to be seen that this is something I would never do again.

I have redrafted based on the template @Hadders provided on a different thread:

Dear Sir/Madam

On xx December 2023, I was asked to show a valid ticket for my journey from xx to yy. I was unable to do so as I had purchased a ticket that did not cover the full extent of the route.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for this irresponsible mistake, and I can absolutely assure you this will never happen again. I truly understand the gravity of what I have done, I completely acknowledge the strain this puts on railway companies, taxpayers, and other passengers. Paying the correct fare is absolutely my responsibility at all times.

I would be incredibly grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without the need of court action by making payments in respect to the unpaid fares and your costs for handling the investigation.

Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours Sincerely,
Xx

I believe this is more concise and gets the point across without some of the exaggeration. Open to all feedback and advice. Thank you

 

[Haywain]

On xx December 2023, I was asked to show a valid ticket for my journey from xx to yy. I was unable to do so as I had purchased a ticket that did not cover the full extent of the route.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for this irresponsible mistake, and I can absolutely assure you this will never happen again. I truly understand the gravity of what I have done, I completely acknowledge the strain this puts on railway companies, taxpayers, and other passengers. Paying the correct fare is absolutely my responsibility at all times and will happen every time I travel in future.

I would be incredibly very grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without the need of court action by making payments in respect to the unpaid fares and your costs for handling the investigation.

Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you.

I made some suggested amendments above, but I think "irresponsible mistake" is a poor choice of words as it wasn't really a mistake - perhaps change that to 'irresponsible behaviour' as I think that (subliminally) says a bit more about your understanding that you shouldn't have done it, whereas mistake suggests it wasn't deliberate.

 

[mea9]

I made some suggested amendments above, but I think "irresponsible mistake" is a poor choice of words as it wasn't really a mistake - perhaps change that to 'irresponsible behaviour' as I think that (subliminally) says a bit more about your understanding that you shouldn't have done it, whereas mistake suggests it wasn't deliberate.

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your time taking a look at this. I will make the necessary adjustments.
I am hoping to have this resolved and be completely done with it. I am an absolute wreck right now, I just feel so stupid!

 

[Haywain]

I am an absolute wreck right now, I just feel so stupid!

Try not to get stressed. You've done something stupid but it shouldn't prove worse than being expensive. It's a good life lesson, to know that things might have consequences and that things may not turn out quite as bad as they first look.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

It’s also a good lesson on why one shouldn’t give “attitude” to rail Revenue Protection, police officers, etc. While it’s not illegal to do so, it’s not a good idea to be “pointed” with someone who, fairly or otherwise, has the discretion to make your life harder if they take a dislike to you.

While there’s no need to go too OTT sucking up to them either, politeness and playing ball is definitely the order of the day. One always has the option of complaining later if one is unhappy in any way with their behaviour.

 

[75A]

We call it 'The Attitude Test.
Treat people as you would like to be treated.

 

[mea9]

Hi!

I have received the letter and I am going to be responding as advised by the forum. I just wanted to know if it is easier for me to scan and attach the letter to an email and send it to the address provided or post it. Since i have 7 days to respond and I have already used 2 over the weekend, I need to have it to them by Friday at the very latest. Please advise, thank you so much !

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi!

I have received the letter and I am going to be responding as advised by the forum. I just wanted to know if it is easier for me to scan and attach the letter to an email and send it to the address provided or post it. Since i have 7 days to respond and I have already used 2 over the weekend, I need to have it to them by Friday at the very latest. Please advise, thank you so much !

If they've given an email address, I would expect replying by email to be fine. Make sure you quote the railway's reference in both the title and the body of the email so it's really easy for the railway to link your reply to the file for your case.

 

[mea9]

If they've given an email address, I would expect replying by email to be fine. Make sure you quote the railway's reference in both the title and the body of the email so it's really easy for the railway to link your reply to the file for your case.

Okay amazing! Thank you!

Also, sorry if this sounds like a stupid question: would you advise to include my response in the body of the email, or typed on a different document and scanned/attached to the initial letter?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Okay amazing! Thank you!

Also, sorry if this sounds like a stupid question: would you advise to include my response in the body of the email, or typed on a different document and scanned/attached to the initial letter?

I think it would be best to put your response in the body of the email. It's unusual for attachments to go astray but not impossible (all it needs is for someone in the railway to 'reply' to the email when passing it on rather than to 'forward' it) so it's best for you to make it easy for them.

 

[mea9]

I think it would be best to put your response in the body of the email. It's unusual for attachments to go astray but not impossible (all it needs is for someone in the railway to 'reply' to the email when passing it on rather than to 'forward' it) so it's best for you to make it easy for them.

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate your time !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

Hi,

I just wanted to update: I sent the email this morning. I didn’t get an automated response or anything but I did confirm the email was correct and there was no bounce back. Should I still send the letter or just wait to get a response from the email. I guess I’m just a little anxious about them not receiving my response in time.

Any advice would be super, thank you !

 

[mea9]

Hi,

Sorry I’ve had to start a new thread for just one question but my last reply on my initial thread keeps merging with the last response and now can’t be viewed.

I just had a quick question:

I have emailed my response to SE based on the email that they provided in my letter. I didn’t receive an automated response but the email didn’t bounce back and I have checked it a million times to make sure it’s the right address. Would you recommend also sending a letter or just waiting for a response to the email?

Thank you, and my complete apologies for starting the new thread!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

Sorry, just to add: I am only asking as I don’t want them to not receive my response in time before the 7 day deadline (which is Friday)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

Sorry all, I have received the response I needed.

Thank you!

 

[Hadders]

If they’ve said it’s fine to reply by email then there’s no need to send a physical copy as well.

 

[mea9]

Hi, this may seem a little redundant but in the response I got, the email said “as per your question on rail forum…”

Should I be worried about this?

 

[Hadders]

Please can you upload a copy of the email that mentions this forum, but do remove any personal details before doing so.

I’m interested to read the whole email and the context in which it is written.

 

[mea9]

Please can you upload a copy of the email that mentions this forum, but do remove any personal details before doing so.

I’m interested to read the whole email and the context in which it is written.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2023 ==

I am not sure if this means much, just made me a little anxious thinking about it …

 

[Hadders]

We do know that train company staff read these forums, this is just further confirmation they do.

I don’t think there’s any need to worry about this adversely impacting your case.

 

[mea9]

We do know that train company staff read these forums, this is just further confirmation they do.

I don’t think there’s any need to worry about this adversely impacting your case.

Thanks so much @Hadders !! I shouldn’t think so either! I’ll update when I can. Thank you all for your time

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi, this may seem a little redundant but in the response I got, the email said “as per your question on rail forum…”

Should I be worried about this?

I know this won't help the OP, but just to note that someone at SouthEastern is clearly trying hard to give good customer service - so full credit to them for that.