Scottish rail services affected by weather 10/12/14

[PaxVobiscum]

There are some problems due to weather up here already,
(EDIT: Quote added as this link will be updated soon)

Due to poor weather conditions between Kilwinning and Ardrossan South Beach:Impact:Train services between Glasgow Central and Largs may be terminated at and started back from Kilwinning. Disruption is expected until 19:00 09/12.Customer Advice:Replacement road transport services will convey passengers between Kilwinning and Largs in both directions from 12:30 09/12/14. Please note, journey times will be extended due to the use of replacement road transport.

and more to come tomorrow: http://www.scotrail.co.uk/route-cancellations-wednesday-10-december-rail-network-prepares-storm

Route cancellations on Wednesday 10 December as rail network prepares for storm

Due to severe weather conditions forecast for Wednesday 10 December, a limited number of train services will be withdrawn as a safety precaution.

No trains will run on the following lines tomorrow:

Inverness-Kyle/Thurso/Wick
Ayr-Stranraer
Kilwinning-Ardrossan/Largs
Dumbarton Central-Helensburgh Central
Glasgow Queen St-Oban/Fort William/Mallaig (this includes the Caledonian Sleeper)

These routes are likely to bear the brunt of the 70mph winds and high tides forecast to hit the north and west of Scotland over the next 48 hours.

Replacement bus services will be considered but are dependent on road conditions.

Network Rail will have hundreds of engineers out across the network ready to react quickly to problems on the lines, removing trees and fixing equipment where necessary. The company will also be monitoring its system of over 120 weather alarms across the network to help track the passage of the storm.

With winds of up to 70mph expected, railway infrastructure could be affected as severe winds can blow debris and trees onto tracks and damage equipment such as overhead electric power lines and signals.

David Dickson, Network Rail route managing director for Scotland, said: “Safety has to be our first consideration during severe weather and we are withdrawing a limited number of services until the worst of the storms have passed.

“We will be monitoring conditions on the ground closely throughout the night and into the morning and will have teams in place across the country to react quickly to any damage caused by the weather.

“We are working closely with the train operators and other industry partners to do everything we can to reduce disruption, while also operating a safe network for passengers.”

ScotRail has confirmed that tickets for travel on the affected routes tomorrow will be honoured on Tuesday and Thursday.

Kenny McPhail, deputy managing director of ScotRail, said: “We’re letting people know as soon as possible to give people time to consider alternatives travel options. It’s worth noting that, while replacement buses may be available at key locations, they cannot be guaranteed due to likely road conditions, so if you can bring forward or postpone your journey please do so.”

The train operator also confirmed that the northbound Sleeper to Fort William will terminate at Edinburgh tomorrow morning (10 Dec) and that the southbound evening service to London will start there too.

Mr McPhail added: “We will have extra staff on the ground to assist, and will have more people manning social media to respond to customer queries.”

Any views on large scale proactive cancellations?

 

[Greenback]

I'm not in favour of cancelling trains, just in case. On the other hand, I'm in favour of giving people advance warning of what might happen.

 

[Saint66]

Strong winds forecast tonight, tomorrow, and another storm forecast to affect the Southern half of Britain overnight into Friday. Challenging few days ahead.

 

[Greenback]

The wind is strong and the weather pretty poor down here, but I don't really like the idea of giving up running certain services before anything happens.

 

[higthomas]

I think this is a bit OTT. Something more like the emergency timetable SWT implement when there's snow would be more suitable. Running train more slowly so that they can stop quicker/have less of an impact if they do hit something seems more sensible.
Also if they are worrying about fallen trees blocking the track, perhaps they should start cutting them down again.

 

[Zoidberg]

Shower of wimps!

But is it cheaper to cancel services than pay compensation to passengers when services are run but which are delayed?

 

[Hazlehead]

Damned if they do and Damned if they don't.

I'd rather them be proactive and initiate plans before it all goes wrong and trains and passengers become stranded for hours.

 

[Greenback]

While there's something to be said for initiating plans beforehand, this smacks of just throwing the towel in.

 

[ADRboy]

It's already wild up here. Good decision IMO to get it out early.

 

[ECML180]

I'd rather them be proactive and initiate plans before it all goes wrong and trains and passengers become stranded for hours.

This sounds less pro-active and more defeatist!

Forewarning passengers is definitely a good move but simply deciding not to run anything makes very little sense. Surely they would be better off cancelling the first few trains down each route and appending a message that later services may not run or may run disrupted dependant on the conditions.

The above is, of course, assuming that the weather is as bad as predicated. Certainly where I live (and have lived) it rarely turns out as bad, so I would expect that they are able to attempt to run some trains.

 

[tsr]

With regards to the Far North/WHL/Kyle Line services, in an ideal world, would it be possible to just run a very limited service in daylight hours, with each train provided with someone competent with a chainsaw and also a fitter? Then run one service each way at a significantly reduced speed, calling at all stops. That way you would not risk stranding anyone at remote stations (which could happen, even in December, when there are likely to be far fewer hikers et al) without any assistance, and the service run would be able to move those for whom travel is vital but reliant on the railway. I have no doubt that p-way crews will be on high alert so having them able to move with passengers and indeed on trains (rather than trying to use RRVs/foot patrols/4x4s) might allow them to ease prevalent issues more dynamically and whilst also saving the cost of trying to use buses or hotels. Perhaps services could be cancelled for tomorrow prior to 2200 and then replaced by emergency STP schedules which literally have padding taking as long as it takes during daylight. Just a thought. I can completely see why coastal services would be hideously impractical to run, however, and also know that the above is a rather simple solution to a complex issue even away from the majority of the coastline.

 

[theageofthetra]

Been horizontal rain virtually all day in Edinburgh & a gust up in the 90's recorded on one the nearby hills. Probably wise in the circumstances. Now if my flight gets off the ground tonight is another matter!

 

[Bald Rick]

With regards to the Far North/WHL/Kyle Line services, in an ideal world, would it be possible to just run a very limited service in daylight hours, with each train provided with someone competent with a chainsaw and also a fitter? Then run one service each way at a significantly reduced speed, calling at all stops. That way you would not risk stranding anyone at remote stations (which could happen, even in December, when there are likely to be far fewer hikers et al) without any assistance, and the service run would be able to move those for whom travel is vital but reliant on the railway. I have no doubt that p-way crews will be on high alert so having them able to move with passengers and indeed on trains (rather than trying to use RRVs/foot patrols/4x4s) might allow them to ease prevalent issues more dynamically and whilst also saving the cost of trying to use buses or hotels. Perhaps services could be cancelled for tomorrow prior to 2200 and then replaced by emergency STP schedules which literally have padding taking as long as it takes during daylight. Just a thought. I can completely see why coastal services would be hideously impractical to run, however, and also know that the above is a rather simple solution to a complex issue even away from the majority of the coastline.

The risk there is getting punters stranded, as has happened many times previously.

 

[scotraildriver]

The issues here are that if a train becomes disabled due to a landslip or similar many parts of these routes are literally miles and miles from any roads. 2 landslips or major trees down and a train in between can be very dangerous up here resulting in stranded people and very high chance of derailments. We also have 2 drivers off sick having been hit by trees coming in the windscreen on the West Highland line. Finally there is also the "fear" culture. The last time a train hit a landslip near the Pass of Brander a legal firm managed to get every passenger on the train to claim for whiplash, stress etc "train shouldn't have been running, should have foreseen the landslip" etc etc etc. So I can see the point of cancellations although as a driver I world always like to "make the effort"

 

[Greenback]

I think it's more likely to be linked to the possibility of litigation than anything else. What a shame that the compensation culture means that it's preferable to abandon any service rather than risk being sued if something should happen. It's a sad sign of our times.

 

[infobleep]

I think this is a bit OTT. Something more like the emergency timetable SWT implement when there's snow would be more suitable. Running train more slowly so that they can stop quicker/have less of an impact if they do hit something seems more sensible.
Also if they are worrying about fallen trees blocking the track, perhaps they should start cutting them down again.

South West Trains also cancel services. One year when the snow hit, perhaps earlier than expected, they tried to run a normal service. The Aldershot line had a service. The next day it didn't, even though conditions were no worse.

Passengers on the Aldershot line may have been thinking if they can run some sort of limited service the day before then why not today. The weather isn't any worse.

Hence its best to plan in advance in my opinion for consistency.

 

[Clip]

I can understand the idea that cancelling services is defeatist but do we really want to end up with services stranded for hours on end and helo not being able to get to them for hours with no food and water and roads inaccessible too?

Im pretty sure the last set of snowstorms and such like there was uproar about how the railway didnt do enough to help people stranded and such like.

No win situation and im pretty sure most of us wouldnt go out in our cars when the weather is forecast to be ****ty?

 

[trei2k]

I think it is poor that ScotRail are not offering alternative transport on a number of the routes!

Link: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/87966.aspx

High winds, heavy rain / snow and high tides in Scotland and the north west of England tomorrow are expected to cause disruption to journeys. The following changes will be in place tomorrow, Wednesday 10 December.

Inverness - Wick / Kyle of Lochalsh
Trains will not run all day. Because of the anticipated poor road conditions replacement buses will not run.

Glasgow Queen Street - Oban / Fort William / Malaig
Trains will not run between Glasgow Queen Street and Oban / Fort William / Malaig. Because of the anticipated poor road conditions replacement buses will not run.

Helensburgh Central - Dumbarton Central
Buses will replace trains between Dumbarton Central and Helensburgh Central. Passengers may also use their tickets on First Buses between Helensburgh and Dumbarton Central.

Glasgow Central - Largs / Ardrossan Harbour
Buses will replace trains between Kilwinning and Largs / Ardrossan Harbour.
Glasgow Central / Kilmarnock - Ayr / Stranraer
Buses will replace trains between Ayr and Girvan / Stranraer.

ScotRail Sleeper Services
The 04:50 Edinburgh to Fort William and also the 19:50 Fort William to Edinburgh are cancelled with no replacement road transport available.

First TransPennine Express, Northern Rail and Virgin Trains are expecting to run a normal service tomorrow but because of high tides between Barrow-in-Furness and Carlisle and heavy snow between Lancaster and Carlisle, these routes may be disrupted from the start of service tomorrow, Wednesday 10 December 2014.

Alternative travel options
ScotRail passengers with tickets dated Wednesday 10 December may travel today, or on Thursday 11 December 2014.

 

[PHILIPE]

What happens if the road transport becomes stranded somewhere which is possible in bad weather ? That's no doubt the reason.

 

[Saint66]

Gusts are really picking up in central Leeds, hitting almost 50mph at Leeds & Bradford International, so I can imagine the conditions further north aren't great!

 

[theironroad]

I drove along part of the a83 and a82 this afternoon and already they are on landslide watch near rest and be thankful, the wind and rain was unrelenting at times, though calm lulls as well and this was quite away from the exposed west coast.

Near 'bowling' roundabout near Dumbarton there was a big tree blocking he northbound a82 and thank god I was southbound as there must have been a good 3-4 miles of traffic backed up not moving.

A bus replacement would have been stuck quickly before it even reached the remoter parts of argyle.

It's easy to criticise tocs being proactive, but this isn't suburban London where there are multiple road access points, but in places on the whl, a train hitting a tree across the track could mean a train tumbling into a loch with severe loss of life.

Considering the forecast, I think scotrail have Called this one right.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I couldn't possibly criticize them for deciding not to lay on buses during what is expected to be very poor weather indeed. Do you really want to run the possibility of a bus load of passengers getting stranded in the middle of the Scottish Highlands? I certainly wouldn't. As a company they have a responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of people using their services.

The criticism here is slightly surprising to me. This is expected to be pretty bad. It would be foolish not to be proactive and take action. It may seem over the top now, but if it's as bad as they say it will be then it's the right call tbh. They can only go by the data they are given, just like anyone else. I'm sure these decisions were given full thought and consideration. Nobody takes the decision to suspend the service lightly.

 

[Strathclyder]

There will be several route closures on the Scotrail network today as a safety measure:

Route cancellations on Wednesday 10 December as rail network prepares for storm

Due to severe weather conditions forecast for Wednesday 10 December, a limited number of train services will be withdrawn as a safety precaution.

No trains will run on the following lines tomorrow:

• Inverness-Kyle/Thurso/Wick
• Ayr-Stranraer
• Kilwinning-Ardrossan/Largs
• Dumbarton Central-Helensburgh Central
• Glasgow Queen St-Oban/Fort William/Mallaig (this includes the Caledonian Sleeper)

These routes are likely to bear the brunt of the 70mph winds and high tides forecast to hit the north and west of Scotland over the next 48 hours.

Replacement bus services will be considered but are dependent on road conditions.

Network Rail will have hundreds of engineers out across the network ready to react quickly to problems on the lines, removing trees and fixing equipment where necessary. The company will also be monitoring its system of over 120 weather alarms across the network to help track the passage of the storm.

With winds of up to 70mph expected, railway infrastructure could be affected as severe winds can blow debris and trees onto tracks and damage equipment such as overhead electric power lines and signals.

David Dickson, Network Rail route managing director for Scotland, said: “Safety has to be our first consideration during severe weather and we are withdrawing a limited number of services until the worst of the storms have passed.

“We will be monitoring conditions on the ground closely throughout the night and into the morning and will have teams in place across the country to react quickly to any damage caused by the weather.

“We are working closely with the train operators and other industry partners to do everything we can to reduce disruption, while also operating a safe network for passengers.”

ScotRail has confirmed that tickets for travel on the affected routes tomorrow will be honoured on Tuesday and Thursday.

Kenny McPhail, deputy managing director of ScotRail, said: “We’re letting people know as soon as possible to give people time to consider alternatives travel options. It’s worth noting that, while replacement buses may be available at key locations, they cannot be guaranteed due to likely road conditions, so if you can bring forward or postpone your journey please do so.”

The train operator also confirmed that the northbound Sleeper to Fort William will terminate at Edinburgh tomorrow morning (10 Dec) and that the southbound evening service to London will start there too.

Mr McPhail added: “We will have extra staff on the ground to assist, and will have more people manning social media to respond to customer queries.”

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/route-cancellations-wednesday-10-december-rail-network-prepares-storm

 

[DelayRepay]

Living in South East England we had several occasions last winter where the service was completely suspended until 10am due to forecasts of bad weather. This is frustrating but at least you know the night before that there will be no trains, so can make alternative plans. In my case I can work from home but if I needed to be in London I could get there by other means. This is preferable to assuming everything will be OK, then arriving at the station to find there are no trains due to trees blocking the lines, or worse being stuck on a train due to a tree blocking the line or flooding etc.

If I needed to travel I would be annoyed but with a rational head on, I can see why Scotrail have done this and think they've made the right call. I assume they have drivers and guards on duty so if the weather turns out not to be as bad as expected they can start the service.

Personally I would be more annoyed if the train was running but got stuck in the middle of nowhere and we had to wait hours to be rescued.

For what it's worth I think if it's too dangerous to run trains then buses would also be too dangerous. Would they even find enough buses and drivers willing to go out in these conditions?

 

[Antman]

Living in South East England we had several occasions last winter where the service was completely suspended until 10am due to forecasts of bad weather. This is frustrating but at least you know the night before that there will be no trains, so can make alternative plans. In my case I can work from home but if I needed to be in London I could get there by other means. This is preferable to assuming everything will be OK, then arriving at the station to find there are no trains due to trees blocking the lines, or worse being stuck on a train due to a tree blocking the line or flooding etc.

If I needed to travel I would be annoyed but with a rational head on, I can see why Scotrail have done this and think they've made the right call. I assume they have drivers and guards on duty so if the weather turns out not to be as bad as expected they can start the service.

Personally I would be more annoyed if the train was running but got stuck in the middle of nowhere and we had to wait hours to be rescued.

For what it's worth I think if it's too dangerous to run trains then buses would also be too dangerous. Would they even find enough buses and drivers willing to go out in these conditions?

I agree and announcing that there would be no service before 10.00 was better than having hordes of people turn up and be stood around in the cold for hours and I think Scotrail have done the right thing in view of the forecast. People need to consider whether their journey is essential, I'd rather be stranded at home than on a train or bus in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Strathclyder]

Heard thunder three times in the last hour and seen two lightning flashes in the last three. The wind has really been picking up too. I think Scotrail have made the right call here.

 

[Butts]

Got home from Glasgow to Falkirk okay on the 0630

 

[DarloRich]

With family in Renfrewshire./North Ayrshire and having run along the Ardrossan line at Saltcoats in bad weather I can quite easily see why chopping trains back to Kilwinning is a sensible thing to do! Waves breaking over an electric train never seems like a good idea to me.

As for the far north/west highland lines I can imagine the real risk is getting a train stranded in the middle of nowhere with no obvious means of rescue. Those lines give a whole new meaning to remote! I like the idea of having a pway team on the train (if it does run) to help with minor problems but if you run into a land slide 4 blokes and shovels aren’t going to be much use!

I assume you also factor in the risk of teams having to go out in bad weather and try to rescue a stranded train, clear the line of obstructions etc. Just getting to site could be a trial before you consider the risk of working in bad weather.

It really is a case of dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t I guess but with safety coming first in an increasingly litigious culture what option is there really?

 

[Antman]

Jacqueline Dey of Scotrail has just been on the BBC news channel explaining the situation

 

[bradders1983]

Have the "local" services from Inverness to Tain/Ardgay been cancelled today as well?