Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Southsider]

My data shows that electric schedules are planned in the December 2018 to March 2019.

1 EDINBUR to DUNANE
Many GLGQHL to ALLOA and ALLOA to GLGQHL
0 Grangemouth
1 ILFEMUD to SHENFLD via Shotts

I have to confess I don't understand this, what does it mean?

 

[Macwomble]

My data shows that electric schedules are planned in the December 2018 to March 2019.

1 EDINBUR to DUNANE
Many GLGQHL to ALLOA and ALLOA to GLGQHL
0 Grangemouth
1 ILFEMUD to SHENFLD via Shotts

I have to confess I don't understand this, what does it mean?

Agreed, plain english always works wonders

 

[Legolash2o]

Sorry, I looked in my database from the TRUST scheduling feed.

It shows at least one service that uses electric traction is planned on each of the following routes in this timetable:
Edinburgh to Dunblane
Glasgow Queen St High Level to Alloa (and back)
Ilford Electric Multiple Unit Depot to Shenfield via Shotts

Basically, it must be fully wired otherwise these schedules wont exist.

Scottish Wiring Progressometer - Post 13.0 (dated 9th December 2018)
Shotts (due March 2019)

...

Larbert - Stirling - Dunblane/Alloa - LIVE as of 4/11/18
SDA has been energised as of the 4th of November; the route is now in electric service as of the 9th of December.
The extent of wires in Grangemouth is not fully known.

There are no schedules in the current timetable (Dec to May) using an electric traction at Grangemouth, so it may not be wired yet.

 

[najaB]

Ilford Electric Multiple Unit Depot to Shenfield via Shotts

Umm... That's the long way round, isn't it?

 

[najaB]

Very much doubt Perth remodelling will be delivered in CP6.

I was under the impression that it would be delivered in the latter half of CP6 along with the new depot.

 

[Legolash2o]

Umm... That's the long way round, isn't it?

Ah, I made had a typo in my query for that one.

I found the real train times for the others:
Edinburgh to Dunblane
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89355/2018/12/15/advanced

Glasgow Queen to Alloa
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88914/2018/12/15/advanced

 

[Highlandspring]

Ilford Electric Multiple Unit Depot to Shenfield via Shotts

Well that seems entirely reasonable..... Does it call at Breich?

 

[najaB]

Well that seems entirely reasonable..... Does it call at Breich?

I can see the drivers lining up for that one! Actually, what would the routing be (interesting that predictive text suggested "touring" instead of routing)?

 

[Legolash2o]

Well that seems entirely reasonable..... Does it call at Breich?

I can see the drivers lining up for that one! Actually, what would the routing be (interesting that predictive text suggested "touring" instead of routing)?

That one was a mistake but the others I listed were correct.

 

[najaB]

That one was a mistake but the others I listed were correct.

Yeah, just having a little fun, thinking about the poor driver who turned up and saw that on their roster!

 

[68000]

Very much doubt Perth remodelling will be delivered in CP6.

Why do you say that?

 

[Legolash2o]

Yeah, just having a little fun, thinking about the poor driver who turned up and saw that on their roster!

My initial thoughts was that it could be a one off to test the track but then I've just Google mapped the locations and did a face palm.

 

[MadMac]

Why do you say that?

Over on Scot-Rail.co.uk, there was mention recently of a proposal to relocate Perth Bus Station to the north end of the railway station which would involve radical changes to the railway (IIRC, it reduced the Inverness side to two through platforms and maybe one south-facing bay). Until that's settled, the nature of any "remodelling" can't be decided. Also, the signalling interlocking will be 60 in 2022 and can't be altered, so it would be replaced concurrent with any track changes. The panel was replaced relatively recently due to wear and tear plus non-availability of parts (it may well have been the last of its kind in operation).

 

[najaB]

Until that's settled, the nature of any "remodelling" can't be decided

That *is* the remodeling.

Also, the signalling interlocking will be 60 in 2022 and can't be altered, so it would be replaced concurrent with any track changes.

CP6 runs through to 2024 so it's entirely likely that the signaling will be replaced before the end of the period.

 

[alangla]

Well that seems entirely reasonable..... Does it call at Breich?

To be fair, VT ran a Pendolino from Wembley to Kings X a few years ago via Carstairs...

 

[mcmad]

That *is* the remodeling.
CP6 runs through to 2024 so it's entirely likely that the signaling will be replaced before the end of the period.

As MadMac and other have mentioned up thread they are still deciding what they want at Perth, by the time thats sorted it'll be mid CP7 before boots land on the ground at Perth. How long has Carstairs been talked about for remodelling and still nothing concrete? West Coast Remod is the first I remember....

 

[och aye]

As MadMac and other have mentioned up thread they are still deciding what they want at Perth, by the time thats sorted it'll be mid CP7 before boots land on the ground at Perth. How long has Carstairs been talked about for remodelling and still nothing concrete? West Coast Remod is the first I remember....

Going slightly off topic, but are there any plans to reintroduce the line going towards Edinburgh?

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=55.6894&lon=-3.6509&layers=1&right=BingHyb

 

[najaB]

Going slightly off topic, but are there any plans to reintroduce the line going towards Edinburgh?

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=14&lat=55.6894&lon=-3.6509&layers=1&right=BingHyb

That has been mooted as the current curve is one of the sharpest on the network. A lot is dependent on plans for E-G HSR.

 

[railjock]

That has been mooted as the current curve is one of the sharpest on the network. A lot is dependent on plans for E-G HSR.

Strange that they ever closed it though I suppose most trains split at Carstairs anyway.

 

[InOban]

Or they used to. Nowadays only the Lowland Sleeper AFAIK.
It might be tricky to create a junction with a decent speed because of the bridge over the Clyde.

 

[takno]

Strange that they ever closed it though I suppose most trains split at Carstairs anyway.

It barely ever ran in the first place, and got in the way of a useful branch line. It's not like it was closed in the 50s or anything

 

[railjock]

It barely ever ran in the first place, and got in the way of a useful branch line. It's not like it was closed in the 50s or anything

True, but things have changed now as the branch line closed a long time ago and Trains very rarely split at Carstairs these days. Not sure what time savings re-instating would give though.

 

[alangla]

True, but things have changed now as the branch line closed a long time ago and Trains very rarely split at Carstairs these days. Not sure what time savings re-instating would give though.

The big thing, I guess, is that it would reduce the time taken for a long IC225/HST/Azuma/Voyager to cross from the Edinburgh branch to the down WCML, at the moment it blocks the up WCML for several minutes to do the move. In saying that, trains exiting Ravenstruther probably caused bigger problems, though that’s now gone

 

[mcmad]

The big thing, I guess, is that it would reduce the time taken for a long IC225/HST/Azuma/Voyager to cross from the Edinburgh branch to the down WCML, at the moment it blocks the up WCML for several minutes to do the move. In saying that, trains exiting Ravenstruther probably caused bigger problems, though that’s now gone

The Curve being talked about is the long gone Edinburgh - London direction, as InOban mentioned above it was fairly low speed (40ish?) so probably not worth the investment cost. I believe major remodelling to achieve higher (60 or 75) were looked at but deemed unaffordable in cost benefit terms so a smaller scheme mainly concentrating on the Station and North end is likely in CP as to do anything at the South end involves major bridge replacement and land purchases.

 

[alangla]

The Curve being talked about is the long gone Edinburgh - London direction, as InOban mentioned above it was fairly low speed (40ish?) so probably not worth the investment cost. I believe major remodelling to achieve higher (60 or 75) were looked at but deemed unaffordable in cost benefit terms so a smaller scheme mainly concentrating on the Station and North end is likely in CP as to do anything at the South end involves major bridge replacement and land purchases.

Ah, sorry- I thought there was an abandoned formation north of the station from the Law to Cobbinshaw lines & that was the one in question. Apologies again

 

[reb0118]

It would be good if the new Shotts timetable from May had limited stop trains calling at Newton and connecting with the Central HL Newton trains. This would mean people living in the Cathcart Circle / Newton line who are travelling to Edinburgh would not to change stations in the centre of Glasgow

Actually, this is good idea (in theory) but I would go further - put platforms on the mainline. Could this be done without removing the redundant signal box?

Thoughts........

 

[gsnedders]

Actually, this is good idea (in theory) but I would go further - put platforms on the mainline. Could this be done without removing the redundant signal box?

Thoughts........

Is there capacity for platforms on the mainline? Are there not enough trains that it would cause issues?

 

[68000]

You would probably have to demolish the old SB to make P2 an island platform and there looks like enough room for a platform on the other side

Would NR want to put another stopper on the main line though?

 

[gsnedders]

You would probably have to demolish the old SB to make P2 an island platform and there looks like enough room for a platform on the other side

Would NR want to put another stopper on the main line though?

There used to be an island platform on the other (north) side and based on the OS 1:1250 1956 map there was a loop north of that, so you could potentially even build a loop off the mainline for the southbound track. How busy is Newton at the moment? Could get away with running some stoppers into P1 to/from the mainline (crossing the P2 line twice therefore)?

 

[68000]

Through the platforms
4 tph in each direction to and from the WCML
2 tph in each direction to and from Kirkhill

Obviously all WCML traffic passes on the main lines

Thanks for the OS link, very interesting how it all looked