Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[clc]

Essentially all of the <1 hour journey trains out of Queen Street will be electric at the end of the planned set of works.

We dont know about Maryhill yet.

 

[NotATrainspott]

We dont know about Maryhill yet.

I know. Essentially all of the <1 hour journeys which people take from Queen Street will be possible on an electric train. Chances are that they're not taking Maryhill services.

 

[JohnR]

Dare I suggest that if you're going to Dundee you'd be as well going to Arbroath? Especially if the proposed hourly Glasgow-Arbroath semi-fast eventually transpires.

I'm aware there can be a slippery slope of "if you're going to A then B is just <a small number of> miles further on", but Arbroath is the final station regularly used as a terminus before Aberdeen, so going any further without subsequently going to Aberdeen would be mostly pointless. Which is a bigger leap than "the next significant station".

Would Dock Street Tunnel pose a problem along the same lines as at Queen Street? There's also quite a few iffy-looking bridges through Broughty Ferry.

I'm not sure Dock Street would. I know the intention for some time now has been to carry out a major relaying of track in Dock Street, partly to allieviate flood issues, and it would make sense to lower the track at that time.

 

[mcmad]

Both tracks through dock street have been relaid in the last few years but no chance of lowering the track as there is very little depth to the tunnel

 

[railjock]

Is the work currently being done at Abbeyhill in connection with the electrification plans?

 

[najaB]

Both tracks through dock street have been relaid in the last few years but no chance of lowering the track as there is very little depth to the tunnel

Dock Street tunnel had its roof rebuilt in large part a few years back in conjunction with the Dundee Waterfront project. I believe it was done such that it was not incompatible with future electrification.

 

[iain-j]

Is the work currently being done at Abbeyhill in connection with the electrification plans?

I pass here quite a lot and wondered the same thing, although it may have something to do with the house building at the old Abbeyhill triangle or even the other building work going on along the side of the ECML (next to Student flats) just before Meadowbank.

 

[mcmad]

Is it not more likely related to the works at Waverley as Abbeyhill is one of the few remaining road access points near Waverley?

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Abbeyhill Turnback isn't part of the final EGIP scheme although I very much doubt that NR would do anything to block it in future. It might have a future because of the HSTs, as stacking an Aberdeen and a Dunblane train (for example) in the western bays will now mean needing at least 9 carriages length, rather than just 5 today. When platforms 5 and 6 are ready any Edinburgh terminating ICEC services will not have to block the through platforms. If running some EGIP services through as ECML stoppers is infeasible, then the Abbeyhill turnback could simplify platforming. As far as I'm aware, the capacity constraint east of Waverley only becomes a real problem well east of the turnback.

 

[Gadget88]

I'm not looking forward to these new trains they look very clinical horrible bright lighting and smaller less comfy seats. Do they even have 1st class as other electric ones don't?

 

[Clansman]

The Abbeyhill Turnback isn't part of the final EGIP scheme although I very much doubt that NR would do anything to block it in future. It might have a future because of the HSTs, as stacking an Aberdeen and a Dunblane train (for example) in the western bays will now mean needing at least 9 carriages length, rather than just 5 today. When platforms 5 and 6 are ready any Edinburgh terminating ICEC services will not have to block the through platforms. If running some EGIP services through as ECML stoppers is infeasible, then the Abbeyhill turnback could simplify platforming. As far as I'm aware, the capacity constraint east of Waverley only becomes a real problem well east of the turnback.

Surprised there hasn't been any plans to reconstruct that approach to Waverley. If the tracks were lifted and the tunnels were both conjoined at the mouth and burrowed further horizontally a few metres to the North, there's certainly space next to Platforms 1 and 2 at Waverley as well as the proposed site for the initial turn back at Abbeyhill, to have a 3 track approach - perhaps even 4 at most. The reformed Platforms 5 and 6 will already buy a good few years yet, as with a turn back, but in the next 30 odd years, that line will be very congested in its current form. Given there's space right the way from the tunnel to Craigentinny to build a third track, that'd also have further significant benefits in the long run far greater than what extra platforms at Waverley could provide.

I'm not looking forward to these new trains they look very clinical horrible bright lighting and smaller less comfy seats. Do they even have 1st class as other electric ones don't?

You'll go off on one when you see the seat to window alignment

There's first class on the 4-car units only.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not looking forward to these new trains they look very clinical horrible bright lighting and smaller less comfy seats. Do they even have 1st class as other electric ones don't?

There's 1st class in the 4 car units which are for the Edinburgh-Glasgow service. There's no 1st class in the 3 car units which are for other Central Scotland services that do not have 1st class (even though they may currently be worked by units which have a 1st class section).

 

[och aye]

Surprised there hasn't been any plans to reconstruct that approach to Waverley. If the tracks were lifted and the tunnels were both conjoined at the mouth and burrowed further horizontally a few metres to the North, there's certainly space next to Platforms 1 and 2 at Waverley as well as the proposed site for the initial turn back at Abbeyhill, to have a 3 track approach - perhaps even 4 at most. The reformed Platforms 5 and 6 will already buy a good few years yet, as with a turn back, but in the next 30 odd years, that line will be very congested in its current form. Given there's space right the way from the tunnel to Craigentinny to build a third track, that'd also have further significant benefits in the long run far greater than what extra platforms at Waverley could provide.



You'll go off on one when you see the seat to window alignment

There's first class on the 4-car units only.

If you look at Page 61 of the Scotland Route Study published last year, it shows a potential reconnection to the Powderhall branch line:

https://16cbgt3sbwr8204sf92da3xxc5m...tent/uploads/2016/11/Scotland-Route-Study.pdf

 

[clc]

Discussion about East Kilbride line, Scottish Parliament 22 June 2017:

"Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con): I met ScotRail recently and was assured that the line would be up to full carriage capacity over the next few months. What is required is for the whole of the line to be two tracks, rather than one part being one track—that is what affects the capacity. Will the minister tell us the timescales for getting that work done and for electrification?
Humza Yousaf: The double-tracking will be via the city deal and it is for the city deal partners to take that forward and bring it before the Government as part of the city deal package.

On additional capacity on the East Kilbride line, ScotRail is very aware that the line faces overcrowding issues and sees resolving the issue as a priority. I give Graham Simpson the Government’s assurance that we understand that overcrowding on the line is not acceptable. The train operator and the Government have given those assurances and, if the member wishes, I am happy to write with more details as electrification comes to the service. "

Page 3: http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11023&mode=pdf

I'm confused by the Minister's comments. Ive studied the City Deal Agreement and nowhere does it mention double tracking the East Kilbride line. Did he misread his brief?

 

[route101]

Discussion about East Kilbride line, Scottish Parliament 22 June 2017:

"Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con): I met ScotRail recently and was assured that the line would be up to full carriage capacity over the next few months. What is required is for the whole of the line to be two tracks, rather than one part being one track—that is what affects the capacity. Will the minister tell us the timescales for getting that work done and for electrification?
Humza Yousaf: The double-tracking will be via the city deal and it is for the city deal partners to take that forward and bring it before the Government as part of the city deal package.

On additional capacity on the East Kilbride line, ScotRail is very aware that the line faces overcrowding issues and sees resolving the issue as a priority. I give Graham Simpson the Government’s assurance that we understand that overcrowding on the line is not acceptable. The train operator and the Government have given those assurances and, if the member wishes, I am happy to write with more details as electrification comes to the service. "

Page 3: http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11023&mode=pdf

I'm confused by the Minister's comments. Ive studied the City Deal Agreement and nowhere does it mention double tracking the East Kilbride line. Did he misread his brief?

I thought they would put a extra loop in rather than double track . I feel improvements wont happening soon though .

 

[snowball]

Press release (sorry if wrong thread):

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...n-street-station-redevelopment-gets-underway/

Work will begin on the next phase of redevelopment of Glasgow’s Queen Street station on Sunday 6th August.

Although customer journeys should not in general be disrupted by the work, those using the station and the surrounding roads will see some changes to walking routes and entrances/exits. This will include changes to the road network, bus stops and services, and taxi rank.

To enable the work to be carried out safely and efficiently, the station ticket office will move to the former Vale pub on Dundas Street and the George Square entrance to the station will close. Additionally, hoardings will be erected on Dundas Street and West George Street where bus stops will be relocated and the taxi rank will close.

Rodger Querns, Network Rail programme director for Queen Street redevelopment said:

“Securing the powers provided by the Transport and Works Scotland (TAWS) Act process has enabled us to take forward the next phase of the redevelopment of Queen Street station.

“We are fully committed to carrying out these enhancements as quickly as possible and with the minimum of inconvenience for the city. We thank station users for their patience and co-operation as we deliver this important investment in their station.”

Further information on changes to the surrounding roads and transport networks can be found at http://*******/2vbI5hI

The redevelopment of Glasgow Queen Street station is part of the Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP) – a Scottish Government investment in the railway infrastructure across central Scotland being delivered by Network Rail.

A fly through of the transformed station can be viewed here http://*******/2eQF9QY

For some reason, the board has changed "b i t . l y" to stars in those links.

 

[DuncanS]

I love the Times pandering to their readership by focusing on the closure of the Wetherspoons as being the big deal rather than the revamp of the station.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...ntre_pub_closes_ahead_of_Queen_Street_revamp/

 

[Strathclyder]

I love the Times pandering to their readership by focusing on the closure of the Wetherspoons as being the big deal rather than the revamp of the station.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...ntre_pub_closes_ahead_of_Queen_Street_revamp/

Something you'd expect from the Times, really.

As a related matter, the adjacent Sainsbury's Local apparently shuts for the final time today. Not that great a loss in the long run, seeing as there's at least 10 other such stores within the city centre, including one on Queen St itself, a 5 min (if that) walk away from the station.

 

[Southsider]

I thought they would put a extra loop in rather than double track . I feel improvements wont happening soon though .

I think they will and suspect it is next in line for electrification following the completion of Shotts or possibly earlier if funds are available. It is highly used (high on the overcrowding lists in fact), relatively short with not too many structures to address and would release a good number of DMUS. It is expected that a follow on order of 385s would provide the rolling stock but, if not, there are plenty of 321s and similar becoming available. Politically I think the Scottish Government (not just the SNP) will want to show their commitment to electrification following recent announcements down south.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Politically I think the Scottish Government (not just the SNP) will want to show their commitment to electrification following recent announcements down south.

I agree

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Press release (sorry if wrong thread):

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...n-street-station-redevelopment-gets-underway/



For some reason, the board has changed "b i t . l y" to stars in those links.

The forum is set not to do "Bee Eye Tea dot 'ell Ooooaye" quotes. These will work for 2 links in the item:
http://www.egip.info/projects/glasgow-queen-street-–-station-redevelopment-major-works
and
https://vimeo.com/227283085

 

[route101]

Something you'd expect from the Times, really.

As a related matter, the adjacent Sainsbury's Local apparently shuts for the final time today. Not that great a loss in the long run, seeing as there's at least 10 other such stores within the city centre, including one on Queen St itself, a 5 min (if that) walk away from the station.

Yeah theres plenty sainsburys in town , one across from Central Station on Gordon st now . One at Buchanan Galleries is close to Queen St . Wonder if they will reopen when the works finished .

 

[route101]

I think they will and suspect it is next in line for electrification following the completion of Shotts or possibly earlier if funds are available. It is highly used (high on the overcrowding lists in fact), relatively short with not too many structures to address and would release a good number of DMUS. It is expected that a follow on order of 385s would provide the rolling stock but, if not, there are plenty of 321s and similar becoming available. Politically I think the Scottish Government (not just the SNP) will want to show their commitment to electrification following recent announcements down south.

Hopefully soon , x3 an hour service . 156s are probably more comfortable when seated than the EMUs ironically

 

[NotATrainspott]

I think they will and suspect it is next in line for electrification following the completion of Shotts or possibly earlier if funds are available. It is highly used (high on the overcrowding lists in fact), relatively short with not too many structures to address and would release a good number of DMUS. It is expected that a follow on order of 385s would provide the rolling stock but, if not, there are plenty of 321s and similar becoming available. Politically I think the Scottish Government (not just the SNP) will want to show their commitment to electrification following recent announcements down south.

It's fairly obvious that the line will be wired up soon after Shotts. Running long rakes of 156s at high frequency on a stopping service is a silly idea. The Central Belt has enough electric wires installed that novel ideas like bi-modes are simply inappropriate for the handful of lines left.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I have taken the liberty of duplicating snowball's post in the Glasgow Queen Street thread in case the start of the new phase of station redevelopment work prompts anyone to post links to boring videos of the works so to avoid cluttering up this wider thread.

More relevant here though are the interesting rumours recently that there may be problems with pantograph clearances on the new 385 stock in the Queen Street tunnel and that the new conductor bars may have to be adjusted as a result.

 

[najaB]

More relevant here though are the interesting rumours recently that there may be problems with pantograph clearances on the new 385 stock in the Queen Street tunnel and that the new conductor bars may have to be adjusted as a result.

"You had one job..."

 

[92002]

If there are clearance problems with the pantograph. It will be cheaper and easier to alter the pantograph.

Unless you would like the station closed again for many weeks.

 

[najaB]

If there are clearance problems with the pantograph. It will be cheaper and easier to alter the pantograph.

Unless you would like the station closed again for many weeks.

I suppose that depends on how involved the 'adjustment' to the conductor bars is. It might be something that could be done in a handful of overnight possessions.

 

[Clansman]

The people doing the mathematics for EGIP are having an absolute blinder with this project!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I have taken the liberty of duplicating snowball's post in the Glasgow Queen Street thread in case the start of the new phase of station redevelopment work prompts anyone to post links to boring videos of the works so to avoid cluttering up this wider thread.

I just knew that would happen anyway

Queen Street Update 15

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