Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[mcmad]

Since they are working in Springburn after dark, it may well have to be 'captured' first.

Ironically, most of the works are dayshift as the depot is quietest hopefully avoid too many issues with the natives in the flats.

 

[davetheguard]

Has been included in the proposed EGIP infill list for several years (and was listed as such on the first post to this thread). The actual confirmed funding for it was about a year ago with money coming from the freight fund.

Thanks, Altnabreac, for the clarification & explaination. I must have somehow missed the cofirmation of funding announcement. Good news.

 

[DuncanS]

The latest issue of Today's Railways UK - July 2017 - has a picture on page 10 under the title "Grangemouth Branch Electrification" that suggests that this freight only branch is being electrified as part of EGIP.

Is this correct? I've seen various articles in the past in the railway press that suggest that the branch might be electrified, but never anything that says it will be.

It would be good news if TRUK are right; can anyone confirm or deny please?

The poles have been in place for about 6 weeks now.

 

[NotATrainspott]

How long does it take to wire up a modern depot like Eastfield?

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

hey, I noticed trains being reported on realtime as stopping at Linlithgow upl for some reason, does it have to do with electric?

 

[DuncanS]

Fault on a train apparently, notifications out to 19:00 indicating that there will be no first class and 3 instead of 6 carriages owing to the fault.

 

[PaulLothian]

hey, I noticed trains being reported on realtime as stopping at Linlithgow upl for some reason, does it have to do with electric?

I had just noticed that they seem to have put a whole series of these services into the system. Eastfield - Queen Street - Linlithgow UPL and return. Every one cancelled so far. For testing electrics or training drivers?

 

[Gadget88]

The latest issue of Today's Railways UK - July 2017 - has a picture on page 10 under the title "Grangemouth Branch Electrification" that suggests that this freight only branch is being electrified as part of EGIP.

Is this correct? I've seen various articles in the past in the railway press that suggest that the branch might be electrified, but never anything that says it will be.

It would be good news if TRUK are right; can anyone confirm or deny please?

I seen poles going up for this.

What a waste given they won't put a station there.

 

[najaB]

What a waste given they won't put a station there.

It's not only people what use the railway. 400 miles of diesel haulage for lack of ¾ of a mile of OHLE would be criminal.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I seen poles going up for this.
What a waste given they won't put a station there.

I thought part of the requirement was to wire at least part of the Grangemouth branch so that Falkirk Grahamston terminators could reverse there?
Although once wired I think they intend running those services through to Edinburgh as the 5th Glasgow-Edinburgh electrified route.

 

[Southsider]

Scottish Power Networks and a Network Rail contractor (missed the name on the van) are installing some fairly hefty looking cables parallel to the East Kilbride line where it crosses the Neilston line. The cables come from an electrical substation but I can't see where they are going. Anyone know if it's electrification related? Seems early for anything East Kilbride related as no announcements have been made.

 

[route101]

Scottish Power Networks and a Network Rail contractor (missed the name on the van) are installing some fairly hefty looking cables parallel to the East Kilbride line where it crosses the Neilston line. The cables come from an electrical substation but I can't see where they are going. Anyone know if it's electrification related? Seems early for anything East Kilbride related as no announcements have been made.

Interesting , i always got it in hope they are fastracking the EK line electrification but if they want service improvements they would need a loop on the single line section . Plus the bridges would need re done .

 

[NotATrainspott]

Nothing about EK electrification has been confirmed other than that NR have suggested it to TS as a preferred option for beyond 2019. Maybe if NR found that they had a window to do some preparatory works at minimal cost then this might be related but I doubt it.

Also, a week ago I noticed that there are (lots of) orange winches attached to the ends of the E&G wires at Queen Street and Newbridge Junction. Would this be to do with the faulty components which need replaced?

 

[mcmad]

Nothing about EK electrification has been confirmed other than that NR have suggested it to TS as a preferred option for beyond 2019. Maybe if NR found that they had a window to do some preparatory works at minimal cost then this might be related but I doubt it.

Also, a week ago I noticed that there are (lots of) orange winches attached to the ends of the E&G wires at Queen Street and Newbridge Junction. Would this be to do with the faulty components which need replaced?

Highly unlikely to be anything to do with EK electrification as its not been authorised somore likely replacement of existing cabling, might not even be railway related.

Yes, theyre th additional supports where the suspect forks are either not installed with enough safety margin or have slipped.

 

[och aye]

I was reading that before the EGIP works started, only 25% of the network in Scotland was electrified. source: https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/electrification-programme/electrification-programme/

Staring into a crystal ball somewhat, but if the budget and government backing carries on with the current plans. Realistically, how much of Scotland's lines will be electric by 2030?

 

[InOban]

Interesting , i always got it in hope they are fastracking the EK line electrification but if they want service improvements they would need a loop on the single line section . Plus the bridges would need re done .

The NR formation is a convenient place for Utilities to lay cables, electric or fibre. Income for NR.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The NR formation is a convenient place for Utilities to lay cables, electric or fibre. Income for NR.

As long as you don't mind having them severed when
the contractors come along to drill the founds for the masts. Tales have been told.

 

[Clansman]

I was reading that before the EGIP works started, only 25% of the network in Scotland was electrified. source: https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/electrification-programme/electrification-programme/

Staring into a crystal ball somewhat, but if the budget and government backing carries on with the current plans. Realistically, how much of Scotland's lines will be electric by 2030?

No further North than Dundee, East Kilbride, and if you're lucky the Fife Circle.

East Kilbride would mainly rely on someone getting the finger out, and the other 2 would rely on wider projects which would be essential before electrification, such as the remodelling of Perth station and surrounding track infrastructure for electrification north of Dunblane.

 

[mcmad]

Can see things slowing down after the wires reach Dunblane/Alloa by 2020. After that probably the Edinburgh Sub and some smaller schemes in the west in CP6 while the enabling is done for taking the wires up to Perth which doesnt really achieve anything unless Scotrail replace the HST with bimode units.

 

[najaB]

Staring into a crystal ball somewhat, but if the budget and government backing carries on with the current plans. Realistically, how much of Scotland's lines will be electric by 2030?

On the east of the country I think Edinburgh to Aberdeen, the Fife Circle and Stirling to Dundee.

 

[NotATrainspott]

No further North than Dundee, East Kilbride, and if you're lucky the Fife Circle.

East Kilbride would mainly rely on someone getting the finger out, and the other 2 would rely on wider projects which would be essential before electrification, such as the remodelling of Perth station and surrounding track infrastructure for electrification north of Dunblane.

Perth remodelling is pencilled in for CP6 anyway, IIRC. It's a project which needs done regardless of the state of electrification. As far as I can tell, Dunblane to Montcrieffe tunnel will be a straightforward job with few structures. Presumably the project could be staged so that the wires go up pretty much immediately upon Perth being finished.

The Fife Circle is complicated by the need to wire up the Forth Bridge and a few problematic tunnels. That's why NR's plans until 2043 seem to have wires to Aberdeen and Inverness before they reach Inverkeithing! Of course, it'll also depend upon the state of electrification technology, as a shift to miniBEMU units capable of running a few kilometres away from the wires at a time might make wiring up everything else in Fife worthwhile and leaving the hard bits for later. With today's technology, wiring up to Aberdeen and Inverness is more feasible as it gives good opportunities for bi-mode sets to work.

East Kilbride is another scheme that will need done regardless of electrification too. It's a clear-cut scheme that will (with Barrhead) see 4-6tph of busy short-distance stopping suburban services converted to electric traction. 156s are just not a good long term option.

Can see things slowing down after the wires reach Dunblane/Alloa by 2020. After that probably the Edinburgh Sub and some smaller schemes in the west in CP6 while the enabling is done for taking the wires up to Perth which doesnt really achieve anything unless Scotrail replace the HST with bimode units.

The HSTs won't last forever and eventual replacement with bi-mode sets is in my opinion guaranteed. A few years of the wires being used only by stopping services and ICEC is perfectly tolerable. The HST replacement sets will probably come around the time that the wires reach Aberdeen under the NR timetable.

 

[snowball]

Scottish Parliament written answer:

Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party): To ask the Scottish Government, further to the answer question S5W-07088 by Humza Yousaf on 9 March 2017, when work towards the architectural element of the station redevelopment will commence; whether the delayed Transport and Works Scotland Order application has led to futher postponements and what subsequent meetings the minister has had with Land Securities and the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce, and what was discussed.
(S5W-9889)

Humza Yousaf: The Transport and Works Scotland Order application for the Queen Street Station redevelopment was approved on 31 March 2017. Works at Queen Street Station have already commenced with an advanced works package in the North Hanover Street car park area and internal work in Consort House in preparation for the subsequent demolition. The Compulsory Purchase process to complete land assembly for the Station Redevelopment (including the demolition works) is currently underway and is currently expected to conclude in August 2017. Commercial discussions with the preferred contractor to undertake the major station redevelopment works are on-going, with a view to awarding a contract shortly. Further to the meeting with Land Securities and Glasgow Chamber of Commerce on 26 January 2017 referred to in my answer to S5W-07088 I had a teleconference with both parties on 15 June 2017 during which Land Securities outlined its plans for further investment in the Buchanan Quarter.

 

[Clansman]

Can see things slowing down after the wires reach Dunblane/Alloa by 2020. After that probably the Edinburgh Sub and some smaller schemes in the west in CP6 while the enabling is done for taking the wires up to Perth which doesnt really achieve anything unless Scotrail replace the HST with bimode units.

There's no reason to not have electrification North of Dunblane. It's going to need to be done at some point, so trying to work your way up to Aberdeen whilst the HSTs are still with Scotrail seems logical.

In regards to electrification to Perth, extending it in one block right the way to Dundee would mean the new hourly Glasgow to Dundee service (commencing 2018) would be electric traction, and the HST replacements (which will inevitably be bi-mode) would be able to run electric for at least half of it's journey. There's no point extending to Perth and not Dundee, as:

a) Barnhill to Dundee is mostly straight track with little bridges (mainly level crossings), so there aren't as many structures to remove compared to EGIP so progress could be quicker in comparison

b) The "dirty work" would already have been accomplished at Perth (one of the hardest electrification hurdles in Scotland in my opinion), in which missing out 20 miles Dundee would essentially be mean missing out the easiest piece of the puzzle in comparison to Dunblane to Moncrieffe, where the number of structures needing replacing is of greater amount.

But as NotATrainspott stated, even if electrification only reached Perth, there's no harm in them being used by new bi-modes and VTEC's IEPs for a few years.

 

[marks87]

There's no reason for electrification North of Dunblane. It's going to need to be done at some point, so trying to work your way up to Aberdeen whilst the HSTs are still with Scotrail seems logical.

In regards to electrification to Perth, extending it in one block right the way to Dundee would mean the new hourly Glasgow to Dundee service (commencing 2018) would be electric traction, and the HST replacements (which will inevitably be bi-mode) would be able to run electric for at least half of it's journey. There's no point extending to Perth and not Dundee, as:

a) Barnhill to Dundee is mostly straight track with little bridges (mainly level crossings), so there aren't as many structures to remove compared to EGIP so progress could be quicker in comparison

b) The "dirty work" would already have been accomplished at Perth (one of the hardest electrification hurdles in Scotland in my opinion), in which missing out 20 miles Dundee would essentially be mean missing out the easiest piece of the puzzle in comparison to Dunblane to Moncrieffe, where the number of structures needing replacing is of greater amount.

Dare I suggest that if you're going to Dundee you'd be as well going to Arbroath? Especially if the proposed hourly Glasgow-Arbroath semi-fast eventually transpires.

I'm aware there can be a slippery slope of "if you're going to A then B is just <a small number of> miles further on", but Arbroath is the final station regularly used as a terminus before Aberdeen, so going any further without subsequently going to Aberdeen would be mostly pointless. Which is a bigger leap than "the next significant station".

Would Dock Street Tunnel pose a problem along the same lines as at Queen Street? There's also quite a few iffy-looking bridges through Broughty Ferry.

 

[najaB]

Would Dock Street Tunnel pose a problem along the same lines as at Queen Street? There's also quite a few iffy-looking bridges through Broughty Ferry.

I believe that the rebuild for the waterfront project took potential electrification into consideration. Some of the bridges through to Broughty Ferry will probably need raising, but fortunately none of them carry heavy traffic loads.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Dare I suggest that if you're going to Dundee you'd be as well going to Arbroath? Especially if the proposed hourly Glasgow-Arbroath semi-fast eventually transpires.

I'm aware there can be a slippery slope of "if you're going to A then B is just <a small number of> miles further on", but Arbroath is the final station regularly used as a terminus before Aberdeen, so going any further without subsequently going to Aberdeen would be mostly pointless. Which is a bigger leap than "the next significant station".

Would Dock Street Tunnel pose a problem along the same lines as at Queen Street? There's also quite a few iffy-looking bridges through Broughty Ferry.

That slippery slope reasoning seems to be why the plan is to aim for Aberdeen, not just Perth or Dundee. When the retention of the 13 additional 170 sets was announced, a major beneficiary was the Glasgow-Aberdeen line for stopping services. There's a push to speed up the Glasgow and Edinburgh to Aberdeen expresses and the best way to do it is to add separate stoppers as well. Presumably, this wiring would encompass Inverurie as well to allow electrified Aberdeen commuter services.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

any updates on when we're expecting to see 385's on the Edinburgh to glasgow via falkirk high ? , i heard it's been delayed quite a bit but i'd hope to see them at least in 2017

i'm readying myself for them, i hope we all can be friends too!

 

[najaB]

any updates on when we're expecting to see 385's on the Edinburgh to glasgow via falkirk high ?

Last I heard it is going to be October.

 

[jamieintercity]

Is the cumbernauld to Greenhill section getting electrified at the moment because I'm pretty sure I saw some masts passing under the Glasgow to Edinburgh line visible from the M80 near castlecary viaduct/allandale/Bonnybridge?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Is the cumbernauld to Greenhill section getting electrified at the moment because I'm pretty sure I saw some masts passing under the Glasgow to Edinburgh line visible from the M80 near castlecary viaduct/allandale/Bonnybridge?

Yes. Once the main Edinburgh & Glasgow line is done, they're going to do the line from Polmont to Cumbernauld via Falkirk Grahamston. The lines to Dunblane and Alloa will also be done soon after. Essentially all of the <1 hour journey trains out of Queen Street will be electric at the end of the planned set of works.