Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you; so I think we can conclude that there is still some work to be done within the station area itself?

 

[edwin_m]

I know insulating rope (Parafil) has been used for supporting cables on tramway OLE to avoid having visible insulators. I'm not sure if it's used for 25kV but if so it might explain the first picture - but not the last one.

 

[92002]

Could you tell me a bit more about this please?

There were normal looking insulators between the adjacent wires and above the wires, but I could not see anything sideways between the wires and the masts.

The current OHL terminations are only temporary.

When Queen Street was closed earlier in the year, platforms were extended at both the country and buffer ends. Having extended the buffer ends the extensions were covered over.

In November works on the station building starts. The hotel extension at the station front will be demolished, it has been compulsory purchased. The will allow the tracks to be placed in their extended place and the OHL will be finished off.

The plan is not to energise the station till early 2017; the feeder station has not been installed yet.

The station will remain open during the station works. When choosing will move around to completion. The first 385s don't arrive till 2017;

 

[QueensCurve]

The current OHL terminations are only temporary.

When Queen Street was closed earlier in the year, platforms were extended at both the country and buffer ends. Having extended the buffer ends the extensions were covered over.

In November works on the station building starts. The hotel extension at the station front will be demolished, it has been compulsory purchased. The will allow the tracks to be placed in their extended place and the OHL will be finished off.

The plan is not to energise the station till early 2017; the feeder station has not been installed yet.

The station will remain open during the station works. When choosing will move around to completion. The first 385s don't arrive till 2017;

Still wondering whether there are no insulators or whether they are of eg Parafil?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you 92 002; that solves the mystery of why there are no insulators yet.

 

[edwin_m]

The current OHL terminations are only temporary.

When Queen Street was closed earlier in the year, platforms were extended at both the country and buffer ends. Having extended the buffer ends the extensions were covered over.

In November works on the station building starts. The hotel extension at the station front will be demolished, it has been compulsory purchased. The will allow the tracks to be placed in their extended place and the OHL will be finished off.

The plan is not to energise the station till early 2017; the feeder station has not been installed yet.

The station will remain open during the station works. When choosing will move around to completion. The first 385s don't arrive till 2017;

Will the OLE be energised (with suitable insulators) before the platforms are extended? I assume the answer is "yes", as it seems pretty pointless to install the end supports if they are going to have to be removed and the wires extended before they are even used.

I think the idea is still to deploy 380s on Edinburgh-Glasgow for a year or so until the 385s arrive, and these will be shorter so may not need the full platform length.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Will the OLE be energised (with suitable insulators) before the platforms are extended? I assume the answer is "yes", as it seems pretty pointless to install the end supports if they are going to have to be removed and the wires extended before they are even used.

I think the idea is still to deploy 380s on Edinburgh-Glasgow for a year or so until the 385s arrive, and these will be shorter so may not need the full platform length.

The 380s are the same length as the 385s. The initial electric service was to be run by 4+3 car 380s, then 4+3 car 385s, until the platforms are fully extended at Glasgow Queen Street. The E&G wiring will now not be complete until summer 2017, leaving only a few months before the arrival of the 385s. This stakeholder presentation has a Gantt chart showing that the first five sets (3x 4 car, 2x 3 car) will be accepted into service in September 2017, with another 8 (1x 4 car, 7x 3 car) accepted in October.

 

[edwin_m]

The 380s are the same length as the 385s. The initial electric service was to be run by 4+3 car 380s, then 4+3 car 385s, until the platforms are fully extended at Glasgow Queen Street. The E&G wiring will now not be complete until summer 2017, leaving only a few months before the arrival of the 385s. This stakeholder presentation has a Gantt chart showing that the first five sets (3x 4 car, 2x 3 car) will be accepted into service in September 2017, with another 8 (1x 4 car, 7x 3 car) accepted in October.

Noted thanks. So there will be some electric operation in Queen Street before the platform lengthening is completed, therefore the OLE pictured a few posts back will have to have insulators added and be brought into use in its present form before being extended back into what is now the concourse.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Noted thanks. So there will be some electric operation in Queen Street before the platform lengthening is completed, therefore the OLE pictured a few posts back will have to have insulators added and be brought into use in its present form before being extended back into what is now the concourse.

I remember seeing a comment to the effect that the insulators are inserted after the wires are strung up, so their absence right now isn't at all problematic.

 

[QueensCurve]

I remember seeing a comment to the effect that the insulators are inserted after the wires are strung up, so their absence right now isn't at all problematic.

It will be if one required insulator omits to get fitted when the wiring is energised.

Surely it makes good sense both in terms of efficiency and error prevention to put the insulators in from the start?

 

[Carntyne]

It will be if one required insulator omits to get fitted when the wiring is energised.

Surely it makes good sense both in terms of efficiency and error prevention to put the insulators in from the start?

I'm fairly confident that NR know what their doing and wouldn't make a daft mistake like that.

 

[QueensCurve]

I'm fairly confident that NR know what their doing and wouldn't make a daft mistake like that.

Errors do happen and good working practice seeks to prevent error traps.

 

[najaB]

Errors do happen and good working practice seeks to prevent error traps.

It seems to me that good working practice would be to visually ascertain that the insulators were there before turning the juice on, rather than assume that they were installed earlier. So it really wouldn't matter if the installation and activation weren't temporally adjacent.

 

[QueensCurve]

It seems to me that good working practice would be to visually ascertain that the insulators were there before turning the juice on, rather than assume that they were installed earlier. So it really wouldn't matter if the installation and activation weren't temporally adjacent.

It still seems odd to assemble the OHLE in the knowledge that it has essential components missing and will have to be disassembled to insert them.

The enclosed page from the 1974 British Rail publication Electric All The Way shows the assembly of headspans before installation.

 

[edwin_m]

In the situation shown in the photos, it ought to be relatively easy to detach the cable from its pole fixing, shorten as necessary and attach it to an insulator instead, with the other end of the insulator connecting to the pole fixing. I think there is a strap that can be used to grip the cable and maintain the tension, or it may not have been tensioned up yet. The reason the insulators aren't there may be as simple as that they ran out of time to fit them and just attached the cable temporarily to the pole so that it wasn't floating around.

 

[QueensCurve]

In the situation shown in the photos, it ought to be relatively easy to detach the cable from its pole fixing, shorten as necessary and attach it to an insulator instead, with the other end of the insulator connecting to the pole fixing. I think there is a strap that can be used to grip the cable and maintain the tension, or it may not have been tensioned up yet. The reason the insulators aren't there may be as simple as that they ran out of time to fit them and just attached the cable temporarily to the pole so that it wasn't floating around.

Were the headspans not assembled before installation?

 

[najaB]

The reason the insulators aren't there may be as simple as that they ran out of time to fit them and just attached the cable temporarily to the pole so that it wasn't floating around.

Quite possibly. Or even that it wasn't necessary for this stage of the work so wasn't scheduled in so that they *didn't* run out of time.

 

[edwin_m]

Were the headspans not assembled before installation?

Maybe, but perhaps they are made overlength and trimmed to exact length on site?

 

[snowball]

I remember seeing a comment to the effect that the insulators are inserted after the wires are strung up, so their absence right now isn't at all problematic.

It will be if one required insulator omits to get fitted when the wiring is energised.

It seems to me that good working practice would be to visually ascertain that the insulators were there before turning the juice on.

I would imagine they also do impedance tests at low voltage before putting 25kV through!

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Or maybe not, having read of the burned-out cables in the GW electrification thread!!

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Ther's a six-page article on EGIP in the October issue of Modern Railways. I haven't read it yet.

 

[Chris125]

The Herald reports some interesting comments by Phil Verster: Legislation 'minefield' led to Edinburgh-Glasgow rail project delays, MSPs told

He said that in early 2015 a European standard was updated which changed the distance away from the wires that was considered safe for bridges or railway platforms, making it stricter.

Mr Budge said: "That doesn't mean it was a complete rewire of EGIP and everything that had been put up, which is what the media suggested several weeks ago.

"What it meant was redesign in certain areas and very localised changes around structures where we had to change the wire height slightly or risk-assess through to prove that we didn't need to.

"So, that was an ongoing process that started in 2015 along a project the length of EGIP and with as many structures as it has - it has been really quite complex to do that."

Changes to standards for boundary wall measures also meant thousands of metres more fencing was needed while parapet heights along the line had to be raised.

Mr Verster said: "There was this attempt by Network Rail to keep costs down and say 'this new specification is really high, can we risk-assess it so that we get a derogation and therefore not have to comply?'.

"So, we made a decision last year when all of the shenanigans started to become really clear about the cost issues, it became also clear to us and to me that if we don't comply with these standards the ORR (Office of Rail and Road) will not sign off that this line goes live.

"I made the decision in around the March period of time and asked the project team ... 'stop the debate, move to the new standard. The railway has a life of hundreds of year into the future, fix this now'."

Asked whether enough notice is given when standards are changed, he responded: "I dare say it's reasonable notice and I dare say therefore in full transparency the debate on risk assessments and what standards to use went on for too long. We had to call time on it."

 

[mcmad]

A71 in West Calder is to be shut for 16 weeks as Network Rail has been unable to gain permission from the council to progress with mining remediation works for the temporary diversion route. Should cause no end of chaos locally.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-withdraws-west-calder-planning-application

 

[gsnedders]

A71 in West Calder is to be shut for 16 weeks as Network Rail has been unable to gain permission from the council to progress with mining remediation works for the temporary diversion route. Should cause no end of chaos locally.

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-withdraws-west-calder-planning-application

Given it is a railway structure on railway property, do Network Rail need to get planning permission to just close the bridge, given it closes a right-of-way?

 

[snowball]

I have no idea what the local issues are that led to the opposition to the original proposal, but I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a tactical move.

 

[me123]

That's a disaster for West Calder. There is a diversionary route, but it isn't great for the amount of traffic that takes the A71 and takes you into Livingston in a different location. In the height of winter, the road will be prone to icing.

This will see West Calder cut of from its major town for a period of four months.

 

[Harbornite]

Is it not the case that, since the project was already in hand, a derogation from the revised standard could have been adopted had it been sought by the project team.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Any source for this?

Yes, there is evidence that delays were caued at Bromsgrove due to clearance issues...

Work on a new Worcestershire railway station has been delayed due to changes in safety rules which mean a bridge would be too close to power lines.
The £17.4m project in Bromsgrove will see four longer platforms, a car park and a new footbridge.
Work ran into difficulty when the proposed footbridge was found to be about 15in (40cm) lower than new rules allow, Network Rail said.
The station was meant to open in November.
It is now expected to be completed by spring 2016.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-33562835

 

[WatcherZero]

I have no idea what the local issues are that led to the opposition to the original proposal, but I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a tactical move.

Local environmental opposition to the diversion road passing close to a school.

 

[Altnabreac]

There was a bit of discussion of the Rail Delivery Group response to the Scotland Route Strategy on one of the other threads. But nothing here and I thought there were some very interesting details in the document that referred to electrification.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/about-us/publications.html?task=file.download&id=469762881

Firstly there is strong support for the Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme and it's plans for electrification of the Edinburgh South Suburban. This is significant as it was a CP5 suggestion from Network Rail but ORR removed it from the plans as they said it wasn't required.

Secondly in the Glasgow section there are explicit mentions for CP6 electrification to reach:
East Kilbride
Barrhead
Maryhill
Kilmarnock
Barassie

While all have been hinted at as being in future plans it's good to see explicit mentions for each of the lines to ensure the full electrification of the Glasgow commuter network.

No mention in here of any requirement to electrify the City Union line for stock movements so that seems to be off the radar for now.

 

[route101]

There was a bit of discussion of the Rail Delivery Group response to the Scotland Route Strategy on one of the other threads. But nothing here and I thought there were some very interesting details in the document that referred to electrification.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/about-us/publications.html?task=file.download&id=469762881

Firstly there is strong support for the Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme and it's plans for electrification of the Edinburgh South Suburban. This is significant as it was a CP5 suggestion from Network Rail but ORR removed it from the plans as they said it wasn't required.

Secondly in the Glasgow section there are explicit mentions for CP6 electrification to reach:
East Kilbride
Barrhead
Maryhill
Kilmarnock
Barassie

While all have been hinted at as being in future plans it's good to see explicit mentions for each of the lines to ensure the full electrification of the Glasgow commuter network.

No mention in here of any requirement to electrify the City Union line for stock movements so that seems to be off the radar for now.

EK line should of been priority , busy line with no freq improvements , yes i know its single from Busby to EK and that s the main problem .

 

[clc]

There was a bit of discussion of the Rail Delivery Group response to the Scotland Route Strategy on one of the other threads. But nothing here and I thought there were some very interesting details in the document that referred to electrification.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/about-us/publications.html?task=file.download&id=469762881

Firstly there is strong support for the Edinburgh Suburban Enhancement Programme and it's plans for electrification of the Edinburgh South Suburban. This is significant as it was a CP5 suggestion from Network Rail but ORR removed it from the plans as they said it wasn't required.

Secondly in the Glasgow section there are explicit mentions for CP6 electrification to reach:
East Kilbride
Barrhead
Maryhill
Kilmarnock
Barassie

While all have been hinted at as being in future plans it's good to see explicit mentions for each of the lines to ensure the full electrification of the Glasgow commuter network.

No mention in here of any requirement to electrify the City Union line for stock movements so that seems to be off the radar for now.

Is the rolling programme of electrification still targeting 100stk per annum? If 500stk is to be completed in CP6 you'd think all of these would be delivered.

 

[Altnabreac]

Is the rolling programme of electrification still targeting 100stk per annum? If 500stk is to be completed in CP6 you'd think all of these would be delivered.

Keith Brown mentioned the 100stk figure in parliament as recently as March this year so I suspect it is still an aspiration if not an exact guarantee.

Certainly should be possible to do all those Glasgow lines and make a good start on Dunblane to Dundee in CP6.

With Shotts now due for completion in late 2018 it seems liky that we could get an announcement on electrification fairly soon so that structures and piling teams can move straight on to the new schemes.