Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[GRALISTAIR]

It's essentially a slightly more modern Mk3b system, i.e with polymeric insulators.

Amazing - when I did my 2nd degree in Materials Science and Engineering, insulators for this role were always ceramic base. Amazing the progress of materials over the last 20 years or so.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Amazing - when I did my 2nd degree in Materials Science and Engineering, insulators for this role were always ceramic base. Amazing the progress of materials over the last 20 years or so.

They have their advantages and disadvantages, especially retrofitted onto older designs. They are obviously more resilient to weather, especially ice formation in cracks, and they they take more force to break, but in a dewirement situation, more force will generally result in more damage.

The Series 1 OLE is more sophisticated and make use of the polymer's strength to absorb energy and reduce damage during a dewirement by turning it into rotational energy and destroying the insulator and hopefully only the insulator assembly.

 

[McRhu]

Thanks for that answer P.P. Interesting to note that the Glasgow..Gourock line was the only place in Britain with the non-standard Mk II ole and now it seems to be (just about) the only place in Britain with the non-standard SM1 ole. Scotrail can now boast a very impressive catalogue of electrification ranges, but it must make life difficult for the maintenance teams. (Mk1, MkII (which is still extant on the northern end of the Gourock/Wemyss Bay lines I think), Mk IIIa, Mk IIIb, UK1, SM1, NR Series 2....)

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I don't know much about the development of OHLE technology but I did read with interest this article at the time of the Whifflet electrification:
http://www.railengineer.uk/2015/06/03/whifflet-electrification-a-race-to-the-finish/

One of the engineers I spoke to did mention to me that signalling cables had been damaged during the piling for the masts but I hadn't been aware of the use of "recycled" booster transformers and track section cabinets.

 

[Lurpi]

Network Rail's EGIP Twitter account retweeted a link to this page, from a subcontractor apparently working on the Falkirk High line.

The interesting thing (at least for outsiders like me) is that they are digging test holes before each mast foundation goes in, and it sounds like they planned to do so right from the start.

On the one hand that suggests better forward planning than with GWEp. On the other hand, it also suggests that the signalling cables on the Falkirk High line are no better documented than those on the GWML...

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Network Rail's EGIP Twitter account retweeted a link to this page, from a subcontractor apparently working on the Falkirk High line.

The interesting thing (at least for outsiders like me) is that they are digging test holes before each mast foundation goes in, and it sounds like they planned to do so right from the start.

On the one hand that suggests better forward planning than with GWEp. On the other hand, it also suggests that the signalling cables on the Falkirk High line are no better documented than those on the GWML...

If anything was last done by British Rail, Railtrack or in the first few years of Network Rail, documentation standards can be lacking. It's at least as cheap and it's significantly less disruptive to look for cables by hand before piling as it is to carry on and take out signalling sections.

Cables can also have been buried or moved around in areas that were prone to cable theft at the height of the copper price boom, though they really should be being moved back into troughs or ducts and not left buried.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for that answer P.P. Interesting to note that the Glasgow..Gourock line was the only place in Britain with the non-standard Mk II ole and now it seems to be (just about) the only place in Britain with the non-standard SM1 ole. Scotrail can now boast a very impressive catalogue of electrification ranges, but it must make life difficult for the maintenance teams. (Mk1, MkII (which is still extant on the northern end of the Gourock/Wemyss Bay lines I think), Mk IIIa, Mk IIIb, UK1, SM1, NR Series 2....)

I'd expect the Mark I OLE to start being replaced sooner rather than later, as it will be approaching life expiry in the next couple of Control Periods.

I'd expect a Great Eastern type approach with various reliability modifications and alterations, switching to spring tensioning etc.

 

[Lurpi]

Interesting.

The other noteworthy thing from that contractor's page is that they are managing to do one pile per night, which they seem to regard as a triumph of efficiency and hard work.

Compare and contrast with GWEp, where one pile per night is an unmitigated disaster and the worst performance on record.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting.

The other noteworthy thing from that contractor's page is that they are managing to do one pile per night, which they seem to regard as a triumph of efficiency and hard work.

Compare and contrast with GWEp, where one pile per night is an unmitigated disaster and the worst performance on record.

My guess is the "one per night" is for the bases for new signalling, not the OHLE masts.
That's what the reference to SPT means I think.
You only need scores of those, not thousands.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

My guess is the "one per night" is for the bases for new signalling, not the OHLE masts.
That's what the reference to SPT means I think.
You only need scores of those, not thousands.

SPT = Signal Post Telephone.

That's not what the first photo shows (but could be what the base in second image is for). The first image looks to be for a cantilevered signal gantry (hence the counterbalance concrete weight) - our OLE masts, including the cantilevered ones are normally on four or six bolted piles. I can't think of any regular trackside OLE masts or gantries which would fit that base though there are some more exotic gantries in depots and odd locations with central walkways, featuring lighting etc which it could be for, at a guess.

Anyway, not a normal OLE base, and not normal for them to be one per night - the piled ones go out in wagon loads and are MOVAX piled, normally.

 

[Altnabreac]

Draft Scotland Route Study discussed on the other thread but thought I'd list the schemes included / not included on this thread.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/scotland-route-study/

Electrification schemes listed in Scotland Route Study:

• Glasgow North Suburban
  Explicitly does include Maryhill – Knightswood north junction for flexibility / stock movements.
• Muirhouse Junction - East Kilbride / Barrhead
  Seem to be grouped together but separated from Kilmarnock.
• Barrhead - Kilmarnock - Barassie
  Explicitly advocating electrification of Kilmarnock - Barassie.
• Edinburgh South Suburban
  As both a diversionary rouute and for ECML freight.
• Fife Circle - Dundee - Perth
  Grouped together ahead of the Dunblane - Dundee line.
• Dunblane - Perth
• Perth - Dundee
• Dundee - Aberdeen
• Perth - Inverness

Possible electrification schemes not listed in Scotland Route Study:

• Aberdeen - Inverurie
  Seem to be proposing ending through running of central belt services to Inverurie.
• Inverurie - Inverness
  No mention of electrifying the final Scottish Intercity route.
• Newcraighall - Tweedbank
  No sign of Borders Rail moving up the pecking order
• Kilmarnock - Gretna
  Potential freight diversionary route but no mention here
• Ayr - Girvan
  Proposed by some consultants but not in these plans yet.
• City Union Line
  Previously proposed to assist empty stock movements but no mention of it in this strategy.

 

[Lurpi]

SPT = Signal Post Telephone.

That's not what the first photo shows (but could be what the base in second image is for). The first image looks to be for a cantilevered signal gantry (hence the counterbalance concrete weight) - our OLE masts, including the cantilevered ones are normally on four or six bolted piles. I can't think of any regular trackside OLE masts or gantries which would fit that base though there are some more exotic gantries in depots and odd locations with central walkways, featuring lighting etc which it could be for, at a guess.

Anyway, not a normal OLE base, and not normal for them to be one per night - the piled ones go out in wagon loads and are MOVAX piled, normally.

In that case, VGC's website people have got mixed up. The website I linked to says:

VGC teams are primarily involved in digging trial holes to check the ground for pipes, cables, and uncharted mains, and then creating foundations for the concrete box overhead line foundation stanchions. These will hold the steel beams to support the overhead electrified lines.

But anyway. I wondered what an SPT was, it wasn't going to be Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, tempting though it might be.

 

[jopsuk]

Aberdeen - Inverurie
Seem to be proposing ending through running of central belt services to Inverurie.

I was a little confused by this. Even if they are proposing ending Inverurie-Central belt services surely the 4tph Aberdeen Crossrail proposed would easily justify electrification, especially as an add-on scheme? It's only 17 miles! The remaining 91 miles to Inverness is a different matter

 

[oldchap]

I was a little confused by this. Even if they are proposing ending Inverurie-Central belt services surely the 4tph Aberdeen Crossrail proposed would easily justify electrification, especially as an add-on scheme? It's only 17 miles! The remaining 91 miles to Inverness is a different matter

Would the tunnels north of Woolmanhill be high enough? If not that could make it quite costly to do.

 

[najaB]

I was a little confused by this. Even if they are proposing ending Inverurie-Central belt services surely the 4tph Aberdeen Crossrail proposed would easily justify electrification, especially as an add-on scheme? It's only 17 miles! The remaining 91 miles to Inverness is a different matter

But does Aberdeen Crossrail fall into the category of a not-yet-delivered project, therefore outside the scope of the route study?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I was a little confused by this. Even if they are proposing ending Inverurie-Central belt services surely the 4tph Aberdeen Crossrail proposed would easily justify electrification, especially as an add-on scheme? It's only 17 miles! The remaining 91 miles to Inverness is a different matter

There's an issue with gauge clearance for OLE north of Aberdeen, unfortunately, which will need some work before a clear plan for work on Aberdeen to Dyce and Inverurie can be looked at.

 

[aylesbury]

Perth to Inverness cant see that ever happening not enough revenue to support it plus lots of engineering problems to overcome.

 

[mcmad]

SPT = Signal Post Telephone.

That's not what the first photo shows (but could be what the base in second image is for). The first image looks to be for a cantilevered signal gantry (hence the counterbalance concrete weight) - our OLE masts, including the cantilevered ones are normally on four or six bolted piles. I can't think of any regular trackside OLE masts or gantries which would fit that base though there are some more exotic gantries in depots and odd locations with central walkways, featuring lighting etc which it could be for, at a guess.

Anyway, not a normal OLE base, and not normal for them to be one per night - the piled ones go out in wagon loads and are MOVAX piled, normally.

There are a fair number of concrete (gravity) OLE bases both on the EGIP scheme and elsewhere on the network. They seem to be preferred either where poor ground conditions exist or where designers are too lazy to do a proper GI and just stick in 6 cube of concrete instead.

Having said that the bolt pattern on that particular base looks a bit small but since there is no resignalling associated with EGIP not sure what it could be for.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

There are a fair number of concrete (gravity) OLE bases both on the EGIP scheme and elsewhere on the network. They seem to be preferred either where poor ground conditions exist or where designers are too lazy to do a proper GI and just stick in 6 cube of concrete instead.

Having said that the bolt pattern on that particular base looks a bit small but since there is no resignalling associated with EGIP not sure what it could be for.

I'd guess, from what we can see, the block should be OK for a traditional lattice design twin track cantilever, but the bolt pattern doesn't suit one of those. I'm thinking a cantilevered signal gantry for sighting purposes.

Just had a thought - might be an older photo from Stirling/Larbert resignalling, perhaps (don't know what they got in the way of new signal posts and gantries)

 

[QueensCurve]

Amazing - when I did my 2nd degree in Materials Science and Engineering, insulators for this role were always ceramic base. Amazing the progress of materials over the last 20 years or so.

It may be of no concern, but they just don't look as good as the old ceramic ones.

 

[McRhu]

My humble opinion, for what it's worth, is that both Series 1 and Series 2 systems are horrendously ugly and that the pinnacle of OLE design - aesthetically at least - was MK IIIa. The new systems are heavier and more visually intrusive than even Mk I; like vast metal military structures left over from WW2, looming ominously between earth and sky.

 

[TheKnightWho]

My humble opinion, for what it's worth, is that both Series 1 and Series 2 systems are horrendously ugly and that the pinnacle of OLE design - aesthetically at least - was MK IIIa. The new systems are heavier and more visually intrusive than even Mk I; like vast metal military structures left over from WW2, looming ominously between earth and sky.

When they age, darken and become part of the landscape, people will talk about how it was a good thing we took after the Victorians and overengineered things once again The Mk IIIa just look a bit flimsy to me.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some good EGIP progress to report after a run over the E&G today.

Of about 36 miles from Cowlairs to Newbridge Jn, I reckon:
10 miles are fully wired
18 miles have masts, many with registration gear
5 miles have bases
3 miles have none/too few bases.

There are about 6 discrete wired sections, between Lenzie and Winchburgh Jn.
Surprisingly, both the chords from Springburn almost to the main line are wired already.

The sections lagging behind seem to be:
- Cowlairs to Cadder (where the electrification depot is)
- the deep rocky cuttings (several along the line, eg between Winchburgh Jn and Linlithgow)
- viaducts and stations
There's surprisingly little done between Winchburgh Jn and Newbridge Jn.
I thought this section would be advanced with the long tunnel blockade.

The kit looks like Series 2, but the bases are split fairly evenly between concrete and metal piles.
There seems to be no AT wire.
Good to see lots of lineside work going on.
Much better progress than on the NW scheme.

A dreek day, as they say up here.
I picked the wrong day to see the Borders line!
But impressive nonetheless.

 

[Railsigns]

Surprisingly, both the chords from Springburn almost to the main line are wired already.

Wired and energised. They were done as part of the Cumbernauld line electrification.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The links from Springburn were done at the same time as the Cumbernauld wiring.

 

[Carntyne]

Power's due on in 3-4 months. They're fairly getting on with things now.

 

[mr_towers]

The sections lagging behind seem to be:
- Cowlairs to Cadder (where the electrification depot is)
- the deep rocky cuttings (several along the line, eg between Winchburgh Jn and Linlithgow)
- viaducts and stations
There's surprisingly little done between Winchburgh Jn and Newbridge Jn.
I thought this section would be advanced with the long tunnel blockade.

...

A dreek day, as they say up here.
I picked the wrong day to see the Borders line!
But impressive nonetheless.

A lot of the bases have been done in the Winchburgh area, it's not easy work (lots of scaffolding needed to go in for this) but progress is being made. I'm guessing there was too much else going on during the Winchburgh blockade to do the wiring then?

The Avon Viaduct at Linlithgow is also complete (mast wise at least), the Newbridge Viaduct is also on the way to being masted.

I agree though, it's good to see the work being done with little to no fuss. Hats off to the folks doing the work!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A lot of the bases have been done in the Winchburgh area, it's not easy work (lots of scaffolding needed to go in for this) but progress is being made. I'm guessing there was too much else going on during the Winchburgh blockade to do the wiring then?
The Avon Viaduct at Linlithgow is also complete (mast wise at least), the Newbridge Viaduct is also on the way to being masted.
I agree though, it's good to see the work being done with little to no fuss. Hats off to the folks doing the work!

I thought only 3 portal-style masts up on the long Ratho viaduct was rather odd.
But from a train you can never tell what is going on below the parapet in such cases!
The bases being installed high up in the deep cuttings look to be large projects in themselves.
In the north west, "masts" were in some cases bolted directly to the rock walls in cuttings (so avoiding the need for bases).
I didn't see any sign of any of that on EGIP, and there's lots of rock cuttings.
I did see some bases on the platform at Falkirk, but otherwise the stations are untouched.

 

[Mordac]

Some good EGIP progress to report after a run over the E&G today.

Of about 36 miles from Cowlairs to Newbridge Jn, I reckon:
10 miles are fully wired
18 miles have masts, many with registration gear
5 miles have bases
3 miles have none/too few bases.

There are about 6 discrete wired sections, between Lenzie and Winchburgh Jn.
Surprisingly, both the chords from Springburn almost to the main line are wired already.

The sections lagging behind seem to be:
- Cowlairs to Cadder (where the electrification depot is)
- the deep rocky cuttings (several along the line, eg between Winchburgh Jn and Linlithgow)
- viaducts and stations
There's surprisingly little done between Winchburgh Jn and Newbridge Jn.
I thought this section would be advanced with the long tunnel blockade.

The kit looks like Series 2, but the bases are split fairly evenly between concrete and metal piles.
There seems to be no AT wire.
Good to see lots of lineside work going on.
Much better progress than on the NW scheme.

A dreek day, as they say up here.
I picked the wrong day to see the Borders line!
But impressive nonetheless.

It's dreich. Thanks for the great update, though!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

A lot of the bases have been done in the Winchburgh area, it's not easy work (lots of scaffolding needed to go in for this) but progress is being made. I'm guessing there was too much else going on during the Winchburgh blockade to do the wiring then?

The Avon Viaduct at Linlithgow is also complete (mast wise at least), the Newbridge Viaduct is also on the way to being masted.

I agree though, it's good to see the work being done with little to no fuss. Hats off to the folks doing the work!

I've seen these photographs at Philipstoun fairly recently:
https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=54533
https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=54590

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's dreich. Thanks for the great update, though!

I did check!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dreek
Maybe it's how the Americans spell it...