Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Southsider]

This tweet from Network Rail says electrification of the Shotts line is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2018:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/642639438389059584?p=v


That's the first time ive seen 2018 given as the completion date. Previously they've said it would be 2019..

Will they have the new rolling stock by then or is that what the 321s are for?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Will they have the new rolling stock by then or is that what the 321s are for?

70 Hitachi AT200 units to be delivered by December 2018.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would guess that the 321s will indeed, post refurbishment and reforming be put to work on local stopping and semi fast services out of GLC High level, incumpasing Motherwell, shots and similar. It still remains to be seen what awates the 314s but if given the appropriate mods as shown on AGAs 315s then I dont see how they couldnt continue on their current duties, in fact come to that, given the DDA work done to some 315s, why doesnt Scotrail take them?

 

[Altnabreac]

This tweet from Network Rail says electrification of the Shotts line is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2018:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/642639438389059584?p=v


That's the first time ive seen 2018 given as the completion date. Previously they've said it would be 2019..

That is new and interesting if true. Work has certainly been progressing well on structures but still very good news that an early completion is planned.

Possibly one of the benefits of the new Scotrail / Network Rail alliance.

If the AT200s are delivered by then anyway then early completion of electrification could enable more 156s to off lease sooner and save Scotrail some cash.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will they have the new rolling stock by then or is that what the 321s are for?

I understand AT200s are planned as the regular stock for this route post electrification. Not sure that 321s won't be cleared for it as well but as AT200s home base will be Craigentinny / Millerhill I suspect it makes sense for as many Edinburgh routes as possible to use the AT200s.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I would guess that the 321s will indeed, post refurbishment and reforming be put to work on local stopping and semi fast services out of GLC High level, incumpasing Motherwell, shots and similar. It still remains to be seen what awates the 314s but if given the appropriate mods as shown on AGAs 315s then I dont see how they couldnt continue on their current duties, in fact come to that, given the DDA work done to some 315s, why doesnt Scotrail take them?

314s go off-lease by December 2019 - 13 leave by December 2018 with the remainder to leave by December 2019.

The Class 315s would need to be shortened to 3 cars by removing the intermediate coach (the TSO), in the same way the Class 321s will be, you would need to speak to a fitter or engineer familiar with the fleet to confirm the Class 315s can easily and cost effectively be converted to Class 314 specification.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I would guess that the 321s will indeed, post refurbishment and reforming be put to work on local stopping and semi fast services out of GLC High level, incumpasing Motherwell, shots and similar. It still remains to be seen what awates the 314s but if given the appropriate mods as shown on AGAs 315s then I dont see how they couldnt continue on their current duties, in fact come to that, given the DDA work done to some 315s, why doesnt Scotrail take them?

My understanding is that the seven 321s are to be refurbished and reformed to be equivalent to the 320s, to the extent that they may even be renumbered.

314s go off-lease by December 2019 - 13 leave by December 2018 with the remainder to leave by December 2019.

The Class 315s would need to be shortened to 3 cars by removing the intermediate coach (the TSO), in the same way the Class 321s will be, you would need to speak to a fitter or engineer familiar with the fleet to confirm the Class 315s can easily and cost effectively be converted to Class 314 specification.

It may be possible to re-form 315s to 314 standard but I can't see it being likely when the 314s appear to be headed for the scrapyard.

 

[route:oxford]

314s go off-lease by December 2019 - 13 leave by December 2018 with the remainder to leave by December 2019.

The Class 315s would need to be shortened to 3 cars by removing the intermediate coach (the TSO), in the same way the Class 321s will be, you would need to speak to a fitter or engineer familiar with the fleet to confirm the Class 315s can easily and cost effectively be converted to Class 314 specification.

So what is going to happen to all the spare coaches?

 

[68000]

There are 2 projects which are intertwined for the Shotts line

1. Electrification (split between Route Clearance and Electrification works)
2. Motherwell North Signalling Renewals

The Electrification is reliant on the signalling work before energisation of the OLE can take place

 

[Southsider]

Shortening the 321s seems a waste of capacity to me. I understand the interworking options with 318s and 320s but does it need to be 6 coaches instead of possibly 7? 8 might be a problem assuming use on the north side, I recall when the south was electrified the stations (with the exception of Crosshill) were set up for 9 car stops for 303s so 8 shouldn't be a problem.

The 314s are getting old but they are very good at moving large numbers of commuters over short distances, keeping them a little longer to service East Kilbride (already on the destination boards), Barrhead and Kilmarnock would be a benefit to passengers until new stock arrives. I hope Network Rail / Scotrail push ahead with these schemes as soon as possible given the earlier than expected completion of Shotts.

 

[jopsuk]

when the 314s leave service they'll be 40 years old. The best place for 16 40-year old EMUs is a scrap yard.

 

[Altnabreac]

Shortening the 321s seems a waste of capacity to me. I understand the interworking options with 318s and 320s but does it need to be 6 coaches instead of possibly 7? 8 might be a problem assuming use on the north side, I recall when the south was electrified the stations (with the exception of Crosshill) were set up for 9 car stops for 303s so 8 shouldn't be a problem.

The 314s are getting old but they are very good at moving large numbers of commuters over short distances, keeping them a little longer to service East Kilbride (already on the destination boards), Barrhead and Kilmarnock would be a benefit to passengers until new stock arrives. I hope Network Rail / Scotrail push ahead with these schemes as soon as possible given the earlier than expected completion of Shotts.

314s cannot be used outwith Cathcart services and Inverclyde. The Franchise Agreement prevents them from being moved to any additional routes. It also prevents additional 314 diagrams on Inverclyde compared to the current (limited) number.

Lack of toilets, wifi, dda compliance, passenger counting equipment, plug sockets etc means they either need lots of money spent on them before 2019 or scrapping.

 

[Carntyne]

The 321s will be in the common pool with 318/320. They're to increase capacity on the suburban services, not for Shotts which will be using AT200s from the off.

7 car trains can't run on North Clyde - many stations not long enough and with little to no room to extend.

 

[clc]

Network Rail has posted a photo of OLE portals installed between Anniesland and Kelvindale, though electrification not currently planned:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/645533166950871040?p=v

 

[Railsigns]

Network Rail has posted a photo of OLE portals installed between Anniesland and Kelvindale, though electrification not currently planned:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/645533166950871040?p=v

And they're not even portals; they're twin track cantilevers. :roll:

 

[Argosy]

That is new and interesting if true. Work has certainly been progressing well on structures but still very good news that an early completion is planned.

Possibly one of the benefits of the new Scotrail / Network Rail alliance.

If the AT200s are delivered by then anyway then early completion of electrification could enable more 156s to off lease sooner and save Scotrail some cash.

But some will be needed for enhanced GSW services.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But some will be needed for enhanced GSW services.

The electrification works and internal cascade of rolling stock will release more diesel units than the franchise can use, even after some units are used to strengthen existing services.

The net change in the number of carriages within the franchise post 2019 works out to around 190 additional carriages.

 

[Carntyne]

I very much doubt any extra 156s will go. Needing more carriages everywhere at the moment.

 

[Altnabreac]

But some will be needed for enhanced GSW services.

The electrification works and internal cascade of rolling stock will release more diesel units than the franchise can use, even after some units are used to strengthen existing services.

The net change in the number of carriages within the franchise post 2019 works out to around 190 additional carriages.

I very much doubt any extra 156s will go. Needing more carriages everywhere at the moment.

Worth taking a look at the numbers from the Franchise agreement. I've taken Dec 2017, 2018 and 2025 as useful points to see the long term trend:

156
48 x 2 car Units in Dec 2017
38 x 2 car Units in Dec 2018
38 x 2 car Units in Dec 2025
Net loss of 20 coaches

158

48 x 2 car Units in Dec 2017
40 x 2 car Units in Dec 2018
40 x 2 car Units in Dec 2025
Net loss of 16 coaches

170

55 x 3 car units in Dec 2017
21 x 3 car units in Dec 2018
21 x 3 car units in Dec 2025
29 of the 170s have flexible leases that can be extended if HSTs haven't arrived.
Net loss of 102 coaches

HSTs

14 x 4 & 13 x 5 car units in Dec 2018 (121 coaches)
13 x 4 & 12 x 5 & 2 x 6 car units in Dec 2025 (124 coaches)
Net gain of 124 coaches

314
16 x 3 car units in Dec 2017
3 x 3 car units in Dec 2018
0 x 3 car units in Dec 2025
Net loss of 48 coaches

321
7 x 3 car units in Dec 2015
7 x 3 car units in Dec 2025
Net gain of 21 coaches

3xx (AT200s)
13 x 3 and 12 x 4 car units in Dec 2017
33 x 3 and 24 x 4 car units in Dec 2018
56 x 3 and 24 x 4 car units in Dec 2025
Net gain of 264 coaches

Current stock
352 DMU coaches
427 EMU coaches
plus some loco hauled coaching stock

Dec 2017
352 DMU coaches
535 EMU coaches
Net gain 108 coaches on now

Dec 2018
335 DMU / HST coaches
604 EMU coaches
Net gain 160 coaches on now

Dec 2025
338 DMU / HST coaches
664 EMU coaches
Net gain 223 coaches on now

Note: Philip Phlopp's 2019 number of 190+ carriages is consistent with this 223 as there are an optional 30 AT200 carriages that could arrive in 2023 included in my 2025 numbers.

So it is unlikely that any additional demand for DMUs whether on Borders Rail, GSW strengthening, Stranraer line etc can't be coped with within the current stock plans that see 10 x 156s go off lease in 2018.

Also worth remembering that all the current franchise DMU plans are based on no electrification post Alloa / Dunblane / Shotts line taking place. That is because only these schemes are definitely signed off for delivery in CP5.

If the rolling programme of electrification continues in CP6 (as I would fully expect) then more DMUs are likely to go off lease. The first lines to be electrified in CP6 will likely be East Kilbride, Maryhill, Barrhead and Kilmarnock. All of these are currently home to 156s so there would be an additional surplus of stock as these electrification schemes progress.

The current plan is for:
158s to cover Far North, Kyle, Borders, Fife Circle and West Highland.
170s on Fife Circle and Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth.
HSTs on Intercity routes.
156s on Glasgow suburban and SW routes.

So with Rolling Electrification by 2022 or so the 156 routes could be limited to Stranraer - Ayr - Kilmarnock and Glasgow - Carlisle via Dumfries. Stock demand on those 2 routes will be quite a lot less than 38 x 2 car units.

 

[snowball]

Press release

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/edinburgh-glasgow-electrification-work-set-to-begin

Engineers will start to install overhead power cables on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow line this month (October) as work to electrify the route in 2016 gathers pace.

Part of the Scottish Government-funded, £742m Edinburgh-Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP), the electrification work will deliver faster, longer and greener trains for customers on the Edinburgh Waverley-Glasgow Queen Street line from December 2016.

Over the next six months, engineers will be installing stanchions to support the new overhead lines and stringing over 150km of power cables between the two cities – with the first sections of cable going up later this month.

Most of the electrification work will be carried out at night, but to help maximise the time engineers have to compete this complex work, some late evening service alterations will be in place.

After 21:30 on Sundays to Thursdays between October 5, 2015, and March 17, 2016, some services into Glasgow Queen Street – including the Edinburgh, Stirling, Alloa and Dundee trains – will be using diversionary routes and will have extended journey times. A limited number of stations will also be served by replacement bus services.

The evening alterations will be suspended over the Christmas period – from December 11 to January 2 – and full details of the changes can be found at www.scotrail.co.uk or by downloading the ScotRail journey checker app.

 

[marks87]

The map on the ScotRail website is a bit ambiguous. Are services running into low-level, or are they going via Cowlairs from Springburn?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/de...wnload_ct/11742_queen_st_engineering_v2_0.pdf

 

[PaxVobiscum]

It's been happening for a few months now as reported in an earlier post on this thread.
Noticed yesterday while driving along the M80 that the attachments to hold the masts have been fitted to the Castlecary Viaduct, but not the masts themselves (or are we now to refer to them as "stanchions" ?)

 

[Class 170101]

The map on the ScotRail website is a bit ambiguous. Are services running into low-level, or are they going via Cowlairs from Springburn?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/de...wnload_ct/11742_queen_st_engineering_v2_0.pdf

Via Cowlairs.

The possession is all day on Saturdays and Sundays with Edinburgh to Glasgow services and return operating via Falkirk Grahamston, Cumbernauld and Cowlairs.
Glasgow to Aberdeen / Alloa / Inverness services are diverted this way also with Alloa services calling all stations between Springburn and Cumbernauld in lieu of the local trains.
The link between Camelon and Cumbernauld is broken though. Passengers to circulate via Larbet

 

[me123]

The link between Camelon and Cumbernauld is broken though. Passengers to circulate via Larbet

Hardly a huge loss. Reasonably easy to get from Camelon to Grahamston station.

 

[Argosy]

Attended a meeting today where NR announced that electrification to Kilmarnock will not take place before 2024.

 

[Altnabreac]

Attended a meeting today where NR announced that electrification to Kilmarnock will not take place before 2024.

Interesting. Was anything said about EK / Barrhead? Would expect them to happen early in CP6.

I guess it may just be too difficult to separate out Dumfries, Girvan and Kilmarnock trains into distinct EMU / DMU diagrams to make the business case stack up.

Could be that Fife and Aberdeen move up the priority list ahead of Killie.

 

[kylemore]

Attended a meeting today where NR announced that electrification to Kilmarnock will not take place before 2024.

So unfortunately the X76 will continue to clean up!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Interesting. Was anything said about EK / Barrhead? Would expect them to happen early in CP6.

I guess it may just be too difficult to separate out Dumfries, Girvan and Kilmarnock trains into distinct EMU / DMU diagrams to make the business case stack up.

Could be that Fife and Aberdeen move up the priority list ahead of Killie.

It seems to have moved into CP7, but I don't know for sure why, as yet. CP7 would tie in with the currently estimated replacement of the rolling stock on the route though, whilst moving Aberdeen and particularly Inverness up by a couple of years in turn ties those schemes in more closely to the expected out of service date for the HST sets.

The VW emissions scandal fall-out is stirring a few rumours and reminding various people about air quality reports sitting on their desks too, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen have NOx and particular matter related air quality issues which would be helped by the removing diesel trains from the principal stations in those cities.

 

[marks87]

Electrifying the Tay Bridge will be fun and certainly not for the faint-hearted!

The high girders could pose an issue - maybe use a conductor rail?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Electrifying the Tay Bridge will be fun and certainly not for the faint-hearted!

The high girders could pose an issue - maybe use a conductor rail?

It's fine, but it will need a rigid overhead conductor system, as much for the climatic conditions as anything else.

The route north isn't going to be easy, but it's nothing we've not really done before, bridges excepted.

 

[Southsider]

The VW emissions scandal fall-out is stirring a few rumours and reminding various people about air quality reports sitting on their desks too, Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen have NOx and particular matter related air quality issues which would be helped by the removing diesel trains from the principal stations in those cities.

Hope Street in Glasgow regularly tops the pollution table, mainly due to buses I suspect but being next to Central Station can't help. Am I right in saying that the GSW routes are the last DMUS operating regularly from Central (Shotts excepted as that's being electrified)?