Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[me123]

Some more updates from Winchburgh:
BBC Scotland news piece, airing tonight.

Eastbound track looks close to ready Westbound track has bow been lifted.

The above image obtained from Jeffray Wotherspoon's Twitter Account (@jw26040), all credit to photographer, click on through to see some excellent images of the work, and indeed some other really good railway images.

 

[PaulLothian]

Seems to be a considerable over-investment in Rail Replacement Buses for Winchburgh closure.

I know previous threads have discussed this, and need for PNBs for drivers, etc. Nevertheless, buses running in twos between Linlithgow and Edinburgh Park out of normal working hours seems wasteful. A convoy of three arrived at about 18:30 yesterday with 6 passengers in total. Talking to temporary Scotrail staff at Linlithgow, that was a normal peak period loading, and I was told a number of drivers report having not carried a single passenger all day! Presumably a consequence of being the second bus in the convoy.

For a journey such as this, should it not be possible to realistically assess loadings based on normal ticket sales? This would suggest that a single midi-sized bus would be adequate.

Having said that, the variety of buses in use is interesting; I could almost become a bus spotter...

 

[Blindtraveler]

I believe that many more were running initially but were withdrawn, I too have thought from the off that its overkill

 

[Ploughman]

Is the over provision of buses down to simply matching the capacity of the train being replaced?
Rather than actually assessing the use that the particular train gets.

 

[najaB]

Seems to be a considerable over-investment in Rail Replacement Buses for Winchburgh closure.

Better an over-investment than under. It's a lot easier to cancel buses than to call them up at short notice.

Is the over provision of buses down to simply matching the capacity of the train being replaced?
Rather than actually assessing the use that the particular train gets.

But that could also be down to the publicity campaigns working and people changing their travel patterns.

 

[Altnabreac]

Better an over-investment than under. It's a lot easier to cancel buses than to call them up at short notice.
But that could also be down to the publicity campaigns working and people changing their travel patterns.

Agreed, much more sensible to have too many busses than too few.

I think people really have changed their travel habits and a few people may end up sticking with the new options after the closure.

Several people have remarked to me on how quick the Shotts line semi fast service is, especially once you take into account the time crossing Glasgow for passengers from south Glasgow / Ayrshire.

I also took the Glasgow to Edinburgh via Carstairs train this week and it was much busier than usual so people really have been looking at all the alternatives and making good use of them.

 

[jopsuk]

It is of course the first couple of weeks of school holidays in Scotland; prime time for a great many families to be away before the English schools break up, pushing holiday prices up.

 

[Class 170101]

Seems to be a considerable over-investment in Rail Replacement Buses for Winchburgh closure.

I know previous threads have discussed this, and need for PNBs for drivers, etc. Nevertheless, buses running in twos between Linlithgow and Edinburgh Park out of normal working hours seems wasteful. A convoy of three arrived at about 18:30 yesterday with 6 passengers in total. Talking to temporary Scotrail staff at Linlithgow, that was a normal peak period loading, and I was told a number of drivers report having not carried a single passenger all day! Presumably a consequence of being the second bus in the convoy.

For a journey such as this, should it not be possible to realistically assess loadings based on normal ticket sales? This would suggest that a single midi-sized bus would be adequate.

Having said that, the variety of buses in use is interesting; I could almost become a bus spotter...

Also how many people have accepted the longer journey time via Dalmeny reversals rather than get the bus? We are always told via regular research that passengers prefer longer journeys (up to a point) on diverted trains rather than changing onto buses.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Something else occured to me last night also, as I was exiting EDB following a quick visit to boots (nearest 1 to where I was at the time) and both a Stirling via Dalmeny train and Linlithgow via Edinburgh Park bus were called at the same time for a departure withing a minute of eachother. This cant be helpful surely, given how there are usually 10-15 minute gaps between regular Linlithgo trains?

 

[me123]

Reopening of the line due on Monday. Seems to have gone well all in all, but I think people traveling have been choosing either not to travel or to go by road. I think it bodes well for the five month closure next year, although I certainly hope that the combination of the closures doesn't just push more and more people into cars.

Anyway, the lines have been laid:

The conductor bar installed:

And drainage in situ

It's great to see the work completed on time.

(Pictures from the EGIP Twitter account).

 

[Mulson]

I commute daily from Polmont to Edinburgh and I must admit I think Scotrail/Network rail have dealt with the level of disruption really quite well.

I am lucky in that I don't have to worry about bus replacements as I always make a Dalmeny turn so it may be easier for me to be positive about it.

It must be mentioned that Polmont station has been a lot quieter during the timetable changes. The car park(s) are usually always full by 8am-ish but the 2nd carpark has been half empty during peak times during the changes.

It looks like a lot of people were just scared off by the scale of disruption and chose other means of travel.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Reopening of the line due on Monday. Seems to have gone well all in all,

Anyway, the lines have been laid:

It's great to see the work completed on time.

Agreed -I wish they would come down to England and teach us English how to do it.

 

[swt_passenger]

Agreed -I wish they would come down to England and teach us English how to do it.

There are other ways to do this. The slab tracking for gauge clearance through the 500ish yard Southampton tunnel was done one side at a time, with the other track open for bidirectional working for the majority of the working week.

The overall project was planned for two closure periods over successive Christmas and New Year blocks, but they compressed the job into one period and finished a year early...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There are other ways to do this. The slab tracking for gauge clearance through the 500ish yard Southampton tunnel was done one side at a time, with the other track open for bidirectional working for the majority of the working week.

The overall project was planned for two closure periods over successive Christmas and New Year blocks, but they compressed the job into one period and finished a year early...

Thanks for that reminder - I had forgotten about that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And drainage in situ

(Pictures from the EGIP Twitter account).

What is that material - 3cm limestone? It is definitely not crusher-run.

 

[Ploughman]

Looks like normal track ballast.
So yes 50 - 75mm.

 

[Class 170101]

Have they put the electrification infrastructure up as well on the closed section of line?

 

[Carntyne]

Have they put the electrification infrastructure up as well on the closed section of line?

Only the tunnel's been fitted with conductor bar so far.

 

[najaB]

Only the tunnel's been fitted with conductor bar so far.

Makes sense as 'normal' knitting can be put up with only overnight possessions.

 

[47271]

We drove past Winchburgh from Newbridge last Saturday and indeed there's no sign of any overhead at the Edinburgh end of the closed section. However we did see quite a few masts up between Philpstoun and Linlithgow, in other words in the section that's remained open to the west of Winchburgh Jn.

 

[Class 170101]

Makes sense as 'normal' knitting can be put up with only overnight possessions.

I hope you are right.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

We drove past Winchburgh from Newbridge last Saturday and indeed there's no sign of any overhead at the Edinburgh end of the closed section. However we did see quite a few masts up between Philpstoun and Linlithgow, in other words in the section that's remained open to the west of Winchburgh Jn.

There was a picture of mast bases at Falkirk on Railscot at the beginning of May so the masts are probably up there by now.

 

[najaB]

I hope you are right.

So far all seems to be going well without major hiccups, hopefully it will continue to do so.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Will all of Queen Street HL - Newbridge Junction be completed and powered up at the same time?

 

[reb0118]

Makes sense as 'normal' knitting can be put up with only overnight possessions........

.......and just as easily blown down during an overnight gale.

 

[route:oxford]

Will all of Queen Street HL - Newbridge Junction be completed and powered up at the same time?

This is the bit of the project that doesn't make sense to me really.

A triangle is being electrified with complex tunnel issues at Winchburgh and another Complex tunnel issue at Queen Street. A slightly less complex tunnel issue at Dunblane.

Is it just out of vanity that it had to be the Edinburgh-Glasgow route that is undertaken first - when there are already electrified routes between the cities?

Electrifying Edinburgh-Dunblane first would have been an earlier win, release around 5-6 170 units from diagrams to strengthen services elsewhere in Scotland and making sooner use of the capital cost of the infrastructure and also allow IEP and Pendolino to run further North.

 

[Carntyne]

Is it just out of vanity that it had to be the Edinburgh-Glasgow route that is undertaken first - when there are already electrified routes between the cities?

It's the flagship route in Scotland and needs more capacity, good to use it to kick on and show what can be done. EGIP by and large has gone without a hitch so far.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's the flagship route in Scotland and needs more capacity, good to use it to kick on and show what can be done. EGIP by and large has gone without a hitch so far.

Once the odd bout of pausing and descoping had been done to get the cost down.
But it's good to see things progressing now without panic.

 

[najaB]

Once the odd bout of pausing and descoping had been done to get the cost down.
But it's good to see things progressing now without panic.

Better to de-scope the project down to something that can be delivered than the other way round as seems to be happening in England. Plus, other than the deletion of the Dalmeny Chord I'd say that the project as-delivered is probably better than the original plans: the real problem between Edinburgh and Glasgow isn't frequency (you're already close to 4tph) but rather lack of seats so the same number of longer trains is probably the better way to go.

 

[clc]

Better to de-scope the project down to something that can be delivered than the other way round as seems to be happening in England. Plus, other than the deletion of the Dalmeny Chord I'd say that the project as-delivered is probably better than the original plans: the real problem between Edinburgh and Glasgow isn't frequency (you're already close to 4tph) but rather lack of seats so the same number of longer trains is probably the better way to go.

Plus no point spending money on additional capacity that would become redundant once Edinburgh-Glasgow HSR was built.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Plus no point spending money on additional capacity that would become redundant once Edinburgh-Glasgow HSR was built.

The problems there are

(a) additional capacity rarely goes amiss - uses would have been found for any spare capacity, between new stations, new routes and perhaps further re-openings, it would have been put to some use.

(b) the Edinburgh-Glasgow High Speed Rail line has died a death - the reports don't appear to have been submitted to Ministers on schedule and apart from vague mentions in planning framework documents, it's not really being talked about.

NPF3 from July 2014 talks about EGIP Phase 2 (the bits that were de-scoped) OR High Speed Rail being progressed with a time frame beyond the mid 2020s, then EGIP Phase 2 vanishes from the document completely and it's back to vague discussion about Edinburgh to Glasgow High Speed Rail by mid 2020s.