Scottish Citylink

[Tom Gallacher]

The bus also provides better links to places like C orstorphine from Glasgow, so it's used for stuff like the zoo.

I would have thought that a genuine non-stop service from Buchanan St to St Andrews Sq would have been a bus filler. You could probably knock at least 15 minutes off the journey time and charge a supplement for this to offset the loss of the BSOG (which I presume is why they stop at these intermediate places).

 

[computerSaysNo]

I would have thought that a genuine non-stop service from Buchanan St to St Andrews Sq would have been a bus filler. You could probably knock at least 15 minutes off the journey time and charge a supplement for this to offset the loss of the BSOG (which I presume is why they stop at these intermediate places).

In my opinion they should be doing this during the train strikes especially during the festival, although I imagine they are very limited to what they can do by how many drivers are available.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

In my opinion they should be doing this during the train strikes especially during the festival, although I imagine they are very limited to what they can do by how many drivers are available.

Outwith the strikes I still think that there is a market for such a service. I admit that I'm not a timetable scheduling expert but I have spent a long time in the transport industry at both basic operational level and senior management. Every time a new operator tried to enter this market they always seemed to follow the same timetable and route schedule of Citylink and they quickly crashed and burned. Maybe if they came up with a different kind of service they might just succeed although it might turn out to be a phyrric victory.

I guess the fact that Citylink have such a stranglehold on this service means they can effectively do what they want and it might also be the case that they have already studied this possibility but found it to be wanting.

I'm sure there's a good reason but it would be nice if perhaps someone could explain it to the rest of us.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As one of the thousands of residents from the West or north west of Edinburgh who are neither committed to orbital culey bothered about going into the city centre for the purposes of catching long-distance public transport I I wonder if there would be a a market for a service that started perhaps in in inverkeithing and cross the bridge serving Queensferry Tesco and then maybe a couple of stops on the Western fringe of the city before travelling onto to Livingston bus terminal and then fast to Glasgow, this would restore the Livingston to Glasgow link lost with the stagecoach x51 and provide additional seating capacity for those of us who maybe pick services up at maybury or somewhere along the A8 corridor. Also if someone came in and offered something a bit unique like an electric coach or other USP


He's probably however grossly offtopic. But again I would quite like to know why any attempt to compete with CityLink has failed

 

[Tom Gallacher]

As one of the thousands of residents from the West or north west of Edinburgh who are neither committed to orbital culey bothered about going into the city centre for the purposes of catching long-distance public transport I I wonder if there would be a a market for a service that started perhaps in in inverkeithing and cross the bridge serving Queensferry Tesco and then maybe a couple of stops on the Western fringe of the city before travelling onto to Livingston bus terminal and then fast to Glasgow, this would restore the Livingston to Glasgow link lost with the stagecoach x51 and provide additional seating capacity for those of us who maybe pick services up at maybury or somewhere along the A8 corridor. Also if someone came in and offered something a bit unique like an electric coach or other USP


He's probably however grossly offtopic. But again I would quite like to know why any attempt to compete with CityLink has failed

A wise man once said don't fight battles you have no chance of winning. You don't necessarily have to compete with Citylink. Try coming up with something innovative instead of repetitive.

 

[route101]

Citylink have the frequency sown up on the 900. I have used the 900 more since they got the Plaxton Panoramas. Its a turn up and go service for £10.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Citylink have the frequency sown up on the 900. I have used the 900 more since they got the Plaxton Panoramas. Its a turn up and go service for £10.

That's my point. Don't try and compete on this level, offer something different like a non-stop service that gets you there around 15 minutes (or maybe more) earlier. The current daytime schedule is for a running time of around 80 minutes. You should be able to get that down to around 60 on a non-stop basis. A 25% time saving, less mileage and consequently less fuel, is an attractive proposition.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's my point. Don't try and compete on this level, offer something different like a non-stop service that gets you there around 15 minutes (or maybe more) earlier. The current daytime schedule is for a running time of around 80 minutes. You should be able to get that down to around 60 on a non-stop basis. A 25% time saving, less mileage and consequently less fuel, is an attractive proposition.

Full electric would be the way to get a significant amount of custom even on a much lower frequency.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Full electric would be the way to get a significant amount of custom even on a much lower frequency.

Care to explain your rationale?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Care to explain your rationale?

Because quite a lot of people, young people particularly (and young people make up by far the biggest market for coach travel), make choices with a strong "eco" view. The success of the Ember services against the mighty Citylink and Stagecoach are an example, there's a dedicated thread on that operation so I'll not dig too deep into it here.

Though interestingly they don't yet offer Glasgow-Edinburgh.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Because quite a lot of people, young people particularly (and young people make up by far the biggest market for coach travel), make choices with a strong "eco" view. The success of the Ember services against the mighty Citylink and Stagecoach are an example, there's a dedicated thread on that operation so I'll not dig too deep into it here.

Though interestingly they don't yet offer Glasgow-Edinburgh.

I definitely agree with this. Also, companies are favouring Ember over Citylink as they can add it to there green credentials.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Because quite a lot of people, young people particularly (and young people make up by far the biggest market for coach travel), make choices with a strong "eco" view. The success of the Ember services against the mighty Citylink and Stagecoach are an example, there's a dedicated thread on that operation so I'll not dig too deep into it here.

Though interestingly they don't yet offer Glasgow-Edinburgh.

Thanks for this although one small criticism (without intending to offend), it might have been helpful if you had put this in your original post, we're not all mind readers. Having said that you do make a fair point and it has a lot of merits.

Irrespective of the means of propulsion though it still doesn't answer why no-one offers a non-stop service.

 

[oldman]

For a lot of people in Edinburgh non-stop would add 15-20 minutes compared to the West End or Haymarket and the same for commuters to the office area at the West End. You could miss out some of the stops out to Ratho and the Baillieston and Eurocentral diversions to get down to 70 minutes as it used to be, but then you have to match the frequency which would be a big investment.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

For a lot of people in Edinburgh non-stop would add 15-20 minutes compared to the West End or Haymarket and the same for commuters to the office area at the West End. You could miss out some of the stops out to Ratho and the Baillieston and Eurocentral diversions to get down to 70 minutes as it used to be, but then you have to match the frequency which would be a big investment.

I'm not suggesting that you don't offer a stopping service that could pick up and drop off at the intermediate places. There's no reason why two different services could not be offered. One just happens to be a lot quicker for which there is a premium to pay. The frequency wouldn't necessarily be affected, in fact it might be increased due to the non-stop coaches being able to do more journey's per day.

The customer then has a choice.

 

[overthewater]

A premium would have to be paid as any non stop service would lose its grant money, Ie the money for stopping every 15 miles or what ever it called now.

There was talk of making the 900 every 10mins if the Heartland Park n ride was ever opened up in Whitburn.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

A premium would have to be paid as any non stop service would lose its grant money, Ie the money for stopping every 15 miles or what ever it called now.

There was talk of making the 900 every 10mins if the Heartland Park n ride was ever opened up in Whitburn.

I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts. The extra revenue plus cost savings in fuel etc (small but it all adds up) would more than make up for the loss of the grant money IMO. In addition you would/should also be able to get at least one other return journey in per day so saving on a vehicle and driver.

 

[markymark2000]

How is the 900 currently run with driving hours? The registration seems to show it's registered straight through and so given the length, it should be run under EU rules with tacho. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

How is the 900 currently run with driving hours? The registration seems to show it's registered straight through and so given the length, it should be run under EU rules with tacho. Can anyone elaborate?

It’s always been operated by drivers with Tacho Cards.

 

[markymark2000]

It’s always been operated by drivers with Tacho Cards.

Ahh, Thank you. Seems odd given they could run on domestic rules and get more work out of the drivers.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Citylink have posted on their Facebook page that they have some changes coming up (but haven't announced what those changes are yet):

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=628491785614618&substory_index=0&id=100053614064853

Coming soon... We've been working on some exciting changes across our Saltire Cross network

Hopefully at least one of the three quotes above will work as intended!

I wonder what the changes will be? They've already announced their winter timetables so it can't be that.

Separately, what do we think of their current fleet? For a short while it was looking like they would have/be able to have an entirely double-deck fleet (except for West Coast), but then there weren't quite enough Panoramas delivered plus they bought those really small Elites. I'm surprised they haven't just standardized on Panoramas and Astromegas just for simplification of maintenance. It'd be good from a customer perspective too as it would guarantee the maximum seats on each service (important with all the rail strikes) and guarantee a minimum comfort level.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The last I heard (from internal sources), was that there were to be significant improvements to the 6-cities network where competition exists (i.e. Ember) from November 7th. I was told to expect the M8 to be boosted to hourly, all M92s extended to Aberdeen to provide a half-hourly service between Dundee and Aberdeen, and additional calls on the M8 and M9 to Castleview Park & Ride. The non-stop journeys on the M9 would be scaled back, though. The 909 would be curtailed to operate Edinburgh to Stirling University only, as the M8 will provide the hourly Stirling to Glasgow via Cumbernauld service.

Re the fleet: I hope the Astromegas and recently-repainted Interdecks get some sort of interior refurb soon though, as they are fairly 'tatty' and the majority of them don't have working 3-pin/USB sockets. The smaller B8 Elites which Parks have are ideal for the M8, short M90s and 909, but not for the longer-distance services, imo.

 

[Stena Galloway]

The last I heard (from internal sources), was that there were to be significant improvements to the 6-cities network where competition exists (i.e. Ember) from November 7th. I was told to expect the M8 to be boosted to hourly, all M92s extended to Aberdeen to provide a half-hourly service between Dundee and Aberdeen, and additional calls on the M8 and M9 to Castleview Park & Ride. The non-stop journeys on the M9 would be scaled back, though. The 909 would be curtailed to operate Edinburgh to Stirling University only, as the M8 will provide the hourly Stirling to Glasgow via Cumbernauld service.

Re the fleet: I hope the Astromegas and recently-repainted Interdecks get some sort of interior refurb soon though, as they are fairly 'tatty' and the majority of them don't have working 3-pin/USB sockets. The smaller B8 Elites which Parks have are ideal for the M8, short M90s and 909, but not for the longer-distance services, imo.

Why are the smaller Elites not suitable for longer distance services? They have a far nicer interior and comfier seats than the majority of coaches on the Citylink services.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Why are the smaller Elites not suitable for longer distance services? They have a far nicer interior and comfier seats than the majority of coaches on the Citylink services.

Well, they're too small! Although if more journeys are being added next month, that will partially solve the issue. I'm not sure I agree with the far nicer interior, though - AFAIK they don't have USB charging (the one I had back in the Spring didn't), and legroom on the offside seems less than normal. I'm 5ft 7 and my knees were almost against the seatback in front.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Why are the smaller Elites not suitable for longer distance services? They have a far nicer interior and comfier seats than the majority of coaches on the Citylink services.

They're far too small (as in too few seats).
The Panoramas on the 900 are regularly full to capacity whenever I've seen it and used it recently, even on non-rail strike days. The few times I've used the express M9 it's been full to capacity too with a Panorama. If those journeys had happened to run with a single-deck vehicle they would definitely have left people behind, which is not a good look, especially when they're trying to win people over from the train.

I don't drive them so this could be a load of nonsense but I feel like the engines in the smaller Elites are too small too? They're only B8s (8-litre); the larger Elites are/were all at least 11-litre (I think some may have been 13-litre?). All the Panoramas are 11-litre but I'm not surprised they don't offer it in a lower capacity, the wind resistance at 60mph on the front must be very high!

 

[Stena Galloway]

Citylink only sell the amount of seats available for each vehicle. The B8 Elites are used on the same workings each day and only 49 seats can be sold for that service.
As for engine size the B8 is perfectly fine on the pull. They drop a bit of speed on certain hills but you will find even then B11 drops speed on those hills.
They also do have USB charging points at each seat so that comment is completely wrong. The charging point are between the seats so if the arm rest is down its underneath them.

 

[route101]

I used the 900 during a rail strike day and as expected the services were very busy and not running to time. The panoramas take a lot of passengers and at Buchanan Bus Station there was a queuing system. I did notice a few passengers who must be on service specific tickets and have booked a seat on the 900.

I found it odd some small elites were ordered; they would be more suited to the West Highland or routes from Inverness. I remember buying a day return to Dundee or Aberdeen and this allowed you to travel on any service back. Have Citylink stopped open returns?

 

[Stena Galloway]

I used the 900 during a rail strike day and as expected the services were very busy and not running to time. The panoramas take a lot of passengers and at Buchanan Bus Station there was a queuing system. I did notice a few passengers who must be on service specific tickets and have booked a seat on the 900.

I found it odd some small elites were ordered; they would be more suited to the West Highland or routes from Inverness. I remember buying a day return to Dundee or Aberdeen and this allowed you to travel on any service back. Have Citylink stopped open returns?

On the 900 you can book seats on the Citylink and Megabus sites. These passengers are then called forward first when there coach is loading. Once they are on the rest of the people can then board. A certain amount of seats are kept empty for passengers at Baillieston/ Maxim Park and Harthill.

The Elites were actually a cancelled order for Logans in Northern Ireland. Parks took 8 of them with West Coast Motors taking the remaining 2. There's only 6 seats of a difference between the B8 Elites and B11 tri-axle Elites so it isn't a massive drop in capacity.

Open returns are still very much valid and can be bought on the bus to be used on any service as long as seats are available. On certain Citylink services its actually cheaper to buy a day return than actually buying a single. Stirling to Glasgow is £8.90 single but a day return is £7.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Citylink only sell the amount of seats available for each vehicle. The B8 Elites are used on the same workings each day and only 49 seats can be sold for that service.

They also do have USB charging points at each seat so that comment is completely wrong. The charging point are between the seats so if the arm rest is down its underneath them.

They'd be able to sell upwards of 70 seats for those services if they were operated by Panoramas, though. A prime example would be a few weeks ago, the 1015 M8 from Dundee to Glasgow was a Parks Panorama yet the 1015 M9 was a small Elite (I appreciate this might've been a one-off). Yes, the bigger vehicles will have greater operating costs but this would likely be offset against the extra revenue from more bums on seats.

I stand corrected re the USB points. I must've been thinking of something else!

 

[Stena Galloway]

They'd be able to sell upwards of 70 seats for those services if they were operated by Panoramas, though. A prime example would be a few weeks ago, the 1015 M8 from Dundee to Glasgow was a Parks Panorama yet the 1015 M9 was a small Elite (I appreciate this might've been a one-off). Yes, the bigger vehicles will have greater operating costs but this would likely be offset against the extra revenue from more bums on seats.

I stand corrected re the USB points. I must've been thinking of something else!

The 1015 M8 from Dundee is usually operated by LSK870 which a Caetano Levante. The Panorama might have been spare and the Levante developed a fault in the depot so was changed over. The Elite used on the 1015 M9 you are talking about is the regular allocation for this service. If a Panorama is needed on that service then one can be allocated.

 

[overthewater]

How busy is Flixbus right now in Scotland? However Citylink really could do with increasing the 900 as this service can be super busy. I would be surprised if people switch from Ember back to Citylink.