Scotrail timetable

[Citybreak1]

I tried to get an answer from Scotrail but they ignored it. Why is the Stirling to Edinburgh no longer an express service when the Glasgow one stops at Linlithgow?

And why on strike days was my local station displaying a train coming vanished from the board and it was on Scotrail site until 9am but gone by 11am? That was this Sunday just past

 

[Kite159]

The Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Edinburgh trains got cut back to either Cumbernauld or Falkirk Grahamston (similar to the old timetable before the wires went up) meaning the trains from Stirling have to stop at Polmont & Linlithgow to provide a service from the Falkirk Grahamston direction.

 

[Citybreak1]

The Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Edinburgh trains got cut back to either Cumbernauld or Falkirk Grahamston (similar to the old timetable before the wires went up) meaning the trains from Stirling have to stop at Polmont & Linlithgow to provide a service from the Falkirk Grahamston direction.

So the Glasgow Cumbernauld trains got cut back? I never knew this. I assume this when they said they would have less trains each day?

 

[Kite159]

So the Glasgow Cumbernauld trains got cut back? I never knew this. I assume this when they said they would have less trains each day?

They used to run Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Falkirk Grahamston - Edinburgh but since the timetable change in May they got cut back to hourly for Falkirk Grahamston & hourly to Cumbernauld (before the emergency timetable came out).

 

[Watershed]

So the Glasgow Cumbernauld trains got cut back? I never knew this. I assume this when they said they would have less trains each day?

This is part of the permanent cutbacks made under the auspices of the Fit for the Future timetable "consultation".

 

[Citybreak1]

They used to run Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Falkirk Grahamston - Edinburgh but since the timetable change in May they got cut back to hourly for Falkirk Grahamston & hourly to Cumbernauld (before the emergency timetable came out).

That’s a shame as there’s very little express services now. The Edinburgh service almost matched the Glasgow one for speed. Falkirk high also offers very few express trains now too!

 

[computerSaysNo]

That’s a shame as there’s very little express services now. The Edinburgh service almost matched the Glasgow one for speed. Falkirk high also offers very few express trains now too!

There aren't enough people travelling at the moment for a separate slow and fast service to exist, and I'm not sure there will be again in the short term, due to the increased working from home.

 

[Stopper]

That’s a shame as there’s very little express services now. The Edinburgh service almost matched the Glasgow one for speed. Falkirk high also offers very few express trains now too!

The Glasgow-Cumbernauld-Edinburgh services were almost deserted pre-covid so I can’t imagine in the current climate that they ever had more than a handful aboard.

 

[JonathanH]

Stirling retains some fast services to Edinburgh in the hours where Inverness to Edinburgh services run that way, having been diverted away from the Fife route.

 

[Stopper]

The main problem pre-electrification with Stirling-Edinburgh wasn’t really journey time anyway. It was capacity and reliability. You could barely name a worse service in Scotland than the Edinburgh-Dunblane service in peak times. Always shortformed, congested, unreliable, delayed, cancelled etc. Electrification and the arrival of 385s sorted that out with a much smoother, quicker and more reliable service.

Only ScotRail shot themselves in the foot by trying to go the extra mile, to make the service even quicker by removing stops from the service (screwing over Linlithgow/Polmont) in the process by introducing the Cumbernauld service which everybody with an ounce of rail knowledge in the area knew was destined to fail. Now after several years of carting around fresh air, that service has been canned and now Stirling passengers have been left wondering where their fast service has gone. If ScotRail had just left the service pattern as it was post-electrification, with reduced journey times all round, they’d have avoided complaints from all sides.

 

[Huntergreed]

I was on the Cumbernauld service today travelling between Glasgow and Cumbernauld - it was absolutely dead both ways. I can’t really see a need to make it a through service in all honesty. The current express and dunblane services works and at most loses a few minutes due to the additional stops.

It’s currently easy to get from Polmont/Linlithgow to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Stirling, I don’t see any reason to change that (especially if the reason is only to save a few minutes).

 

[92002]

I was on the Cumbernauld service today travelling between Glasgow and Cumbernauld - it was absolutely dead both ways. I can’t really see a need to make it a through service in all honesty. The current express and dunblane services works and at most loses a few minutes due to the additional stops.

It’s currently easy to get from Polmont/Linlithgow to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Stirling, I don’t see any reason to change that (especially if the reason is only to save a few minutes).

Most passengers fro Cumbernauld heading for Edinburgh or Glasgow tend to go to Croy for the faster trains on the mainline.

Doubt anybody has noticed there is no service from Cumbernauld to Falkirk in the current timetable they were mostly deserted of passengers.

In these current times of working from home there are even less passengers on any case.

 

[drb61]

Most passengers fro Cumbernauld heading for Edinburgh or Glasgow tend to go to Croy for the faster trains on the mainline.

Doubt anybody has noticed there is no service from Cumbernauld to Falkirk in the current timetable they were mostly deserted of passengers.

In these current times of working from home there are even less passengers on any case.

Nevertheless, services north of Cumbernauld could be better - i.e. make the Falkirk Grahamston service half-hourly instead of hourly and extend the Dalmuir - Cumbernauld (via Hamilton) service to Stirling or Dunblane to improve connectivity between Lanarkshire and destinations further north as well as offering Stirling southward connections at Motherwell, thus avoiding the change of station in Glasgow.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Stirling retains some fast services to Edinburgh in the hours where Inverness to Edinburgh services run that way, having been diverted away from the Fife route.

I can't help but think this is a bad idea. I can see the reason connectivity wise.

Doesn't that run the risk of the Inverness to Edinburgh trains filling up with Stirling to Edinburgh passengers and vice versa?

 

[BigB]

I can't help but think this is a bad idea. I can see the reason connectivity wise.

Doesn't that run the risk of the Inverness to Edinburgh trains filling up with Stirling to Edinburgh passengers and vice versa?

As the Stirling - Edinburgh trains are more frequent than the Inverness ones, this is very unlikely unless you want HST haulage - then get disappointed when a 170 turns up (158s sometimes too).

Edinburgh - Cumbernauld - Glasgow services were standing room only approaching Linlithgow, then plenty of seats available afterwards, and empty after Falkirk. It also led to an asymmetrical timetable with Edinburgh bound trains being 15 minutes apart, then 30 minutes, then 15 minutes etc.

The return to Stirling and Dunblane stoppers has meant a far better distribution of service for Linlithgow/Polmont and seems to be pretty reliable.

 

[Stopper]

Nevertheless, services north of Cumbernauld could be better - i.e. make the Falkirk Grahamston service half-hourly instead of hourly and extend the Dalmuir - Cumbernauld (via Hamilton) service to Stirling or Dunblane to improve connectivity between Lanarkshire and destinations further north as well as offering Stirling southward connections at Motherwell, thus avoiding the change of station in Glasgow.

Extending these to Stirling isn’t a bad idea in theory and would likely generate decent passenger numbers but I’m not sure you could feasibly (legally and practically) send Class 318s and 320s up beyond Greenhill on to a busy 2-track line containing express 385s, 170s and HSTs.

 

[drb61]

Extending these to Stirling isn’t a bad idea in theory and would likely generate decent passenger numbers but I’m not sure you could feasibly (legally and practically) send Class 318s and 320s up beyond Greenhill on to a busy 2-track line containing express 385s, 170s and HSTs.

The 318s / 320s are 90mph maximum, whilst the maximum speed of the 385s and 170s is 100mph (and I suspect the HSTs won't run any faster than that between Greenhills and Stirling) - so in theory not a great difference in timing on that section.

However, there would probably be other practical reasons why 318s / 320s couldn't run to Stirling - such as lack of in cab monitors and perhaps the bay platforms at Stirling not long enough for 6 x 20m, although use of one of the through platforms might be possible? Definitely something to consider longer term though when the 318s / 320s are replaced with more state of the art units.

 

[92002]

The 318s / 320s are 90mph maximum, whilst the maximum speed of the 385s and 170s is 100mph (and I suspect the HSTs won't run any faster than that between Greenhills and Stirling) - so in theory not a great difference in timing on that section.

However, there would probably be other practical reasons why 318s / 320s couldn't run to Stirling - such as lack of in cab monitors and perhaps the bay platforms at Stirling not long enough for 6 x 20m, although use of one of the through platforms might be possible? Definitely something to consider longer term though when the 318s / 320s are replaced with more state of the art units.

The main problem being 318/320s are DOO trains with no conductor facilities.

 

[Ex-controller]

Nevertheless, services north of Cumbernauld could be better - i.e. make the Falkirk Grahamston service half-hourly instead of hourly and extend the Dalmuir - Cumbernauld (via Hamilton) service to Stirling or Dunblane to improve connectivity between Lanarkshire and destinations further north as well as offering Stirling southward connections at Motherwell, thus avoiding the change of station in Glasgow.

Wouldn’t work for performance reasons - it’d end up too unreliable - and driver only workings wouldn’t be allowed north of Cumbernauld anyway.

 

[adrock1976]

The main problem pre-electrification with Stirling-Edinburgh wasn’t really journey time anyway. It was capacity and reliability. You could barely name a worse service in Scotland than the Edinburgh-Dunblane service in peak times. Always shortformed, congested, unreliable, delayed, cancelled etc. Electrification and the arrival of 385s sorted that out with a much smoother, quicker and more reliable service.

Only ScotRail shot themselves in the foot by trying to go the extra mile, to make the service even quicker by removing stops from the service (screwing over Linlithgow/Polmont) in the process by introducing the Cumbernauld service which everybody with an ounce of rail knowledge in the area knew was destined to fail. Now after several years of carting around fresh air, that service has been canned and now Stirling passengers have been left wondering where their fast service has gone. If ScotRail had just left the service pattern as it was post-electrification, with reduced journey times all round, they’d have avoided complaints from all sides.

I was on the Cumbernauld service today travelling between Glasgow and Cumbernauld - it was absolutely dead both ways. I can’t really see a need to make it a through service in all honesty. The current express and dunblane services works and at most loses a few minutes due to the additional stops.

It’s currently easy to get from Polmont/Linlithgow to Glasgow, Edinburgh and Stirling, I don’t see any reason to change that (especially if the reason is only to save a few minutes).

The Glasgow - Cumbernauld service has always normally been quiet beyond Stepps at least.

One of the reasons is to how Cumbernauld was designed when it was designated a New Town back in 1955 (which also coincided with the rise in private motor car ownership). The original plan was for the Town Centre to be integrated with the ex Caledonian Main Line, with the present day station resited around 200 yards or so in the Carlisle direction. However, there was a parcel of land south of the railway line on the Carlisle side that was in the ownership of the former Monklands District Council, which was in Lanarkshire with Cumbernauld being in Dunbartonshire. This meant that the now former Cumbernauld Development Corporation (CDC) would not have seen a penny of the business rates had the Town Centre been integrated with the railway line, therefore it was built on the hilltop instead.

The present day ex Caledonian Main Line may be useful for people residing in the CDC part of Condorrat, Greenfaulds, North and South Carbrain, and maybe Kildrum neighbourhoods. As the trains to/from Glasgow Queen Street sort of travel in a vee shape (Caley ML to Garnqueen Junction, then diverges onto the former Glasgow & Garnkirk) and curves round to Springburn, then curves round to the Cowlairs Incline to Queen Street, this is not the shortest route at all. Direct buses from those neighbourhoods run to Glasgow via M80 and Royal Infirmary, and also better serves the neighbourhoods as the walking time to/from the bus stops are no more than 10 minutes at most (with no roads to cross at grade, as Cumbernauld was designed to have motorised traffic totally segregated from pedestrians and bicycles).