ScotRail request stop buttons at stations

[AndrewE]

There are similar systems in use in Switzerland, but connected to the signalling, if I recall.

I assume the idea is that the train can run through e.g. Altnabreac at linespeed rather than having to slow right down (the sightline towards Wick is awful).

See post #16

 

[Bletchleyite]

See post #16

Also on a few standard gauge lines, including the Vevey - Puidoux "Train des Vignes".

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

How many minutes before the scheduled time does one have to be there and press the button? Looks like a way to make travel a bit less attractive.

Indeed i can see the law of unintended outcomes here over complicating something that is straightforward now. There hardly going to speed up the overall journey time from using it but it looks like its just a bonus from replacing the current RETB system.

 

[InOban]

I think you mean by the replacement of the original RETB system. The present version has unused capacity which will be utilised by this, and the other improvements mentioned in post #27.

 

[Legolash2o]

How would passengers on the train indicate they want to get off the train? Similar to a bus with a button?

 

[najaB]

How would passengers on the train indicate they want to get off the train?

Same as they do now - tell the guard.

 

[py_megapixel]

I assume this relies on the time between trains being sufficient that after one train has departed, it will be possible for a passenger wanting the next one to press the button in time for it to stop correctly.

Are there any stations on the Far North line where trains (e.g. in opposite directions) are close enough together that this could be a concern?

 

[Railsigns]

I assume this relies on the time between trains being sufficient that after one train has departed, it will be possible for a passenger wanting the next one to press the button in time for it to stop correctly.

Are there any stations on the Far North line where trains (e.g. in opposite directions) are close enough together that this could be a concern?

In that situation the stop request will be sent to both trains.

 

[najaB]

Are there any stations on the Far North line where trains (e.g. in opposite directions) are close enough together that this could be a concern?

Not at the request stops, not really. Taking Rogart as an example, today's passenger calls were:

0834 Wick - Inverness
0906 Inverness - Wick
1021 Wick - Inverness
1234 - Inverness - Wick
1455 - Wick - Inverness
1558 - Inverness - Wick
1819 - Wick - Inverness
2031 - Inverness - Wick

 

[gnolife]

In that situation the stop request will be sent to both trains.

The only station I can think of where it's a request stop and possible for there to be less than 10 minutes between trains is Rogart, by virtue of it being a passing loop, and that's getting a machine for each platform by the looks of it.

 

[Bill57p9]

Same as they do now - tell the guard.

Not much time to do that if you're travelling between Invershin and Culrain!

Will be interesting to see how successful and popular this "press to stop" is. Any sign of the West Highland Line receiving the same thing?

 

[gnolife]

Not much time to do that if you're travelling between Invershin and Culrain!

Will be interesting to see how successful and popular this "press to stop" is. Any sign of the West Highland Line receiving the same thing?

There's plenty of time to do that, you board at the local door at Invershin.

 

[Railsigns]

The only station I can think of where it's a request stop and possible for there to be less than 10 minutes between trains is Rogart, by virtue of it being a passing loop, and that's getting a machine for each platform by the looks of it.

Where is the 10 minutes specified?

 

[gnolife]

Where is the 10 minutes specified?

It's not, however I would argue that if there's that much of a gap between trains, and the system does send a signal to both, then the system is not fit for purpose.

 

[Gloster]

I have no doubt that this is described as ‘fool proof’, but fools are so ingenious. Human stupidity will almost certainly find ways to negate all the gains.

As far as children are concerned, this will allow them to press the button before the train is close, then run off and hide while they watch the train make an unnecessary stop (cue childish giggling). At the moment they will be seen if they stop a train unnecessarily.

And where will the buttons be put: if they are inside some sort of shelter or cover they may be overlooked by those unfamiliar with the station. If they are in the open; well, the highlands are famed for having mild weather all-year-round. How long before the first story in the Scottish edition of the Daily Mail, “I and my three middle-class children were left to freeze because of ScotRail’s stupid rules.”

 

[68000]

Talk of kids running to the station to press the button so that they can run off is fanciful

 

[ainsworth74]

Talk of kids running to the station to press the button so that they can run off is fanciful

I was thinking that. Just how many kids do people live near these stations?!?

 

[najaB]

And where will the buttons be put: if they are inside some sort of shelter or cover they may be overlooked by those unfamiliar with the station.

From what I've seen of the stations in question they won't be hard to see.

 

[Elwyn]

Posts 31 & 32 say that a similar system works in Switzerland and elsewhere. Perhaps the thing to do (and probably what is planned) is to trial it for a bit and see if it works in the UK. If necessary, revise the procedures in the light of experience.

 

[Railsigns]

And where will the buttons be put: if they are inside some sort of shelter or cover they may be overlooked by those unfamiliar with the station.

Buttons or no buttons, all request stops rely on passengers knowing they're request stops and what they need to do to stop the train. Conspicuous signage is key.

 

[markymark2000]

I think this is a very good idea and hopefully it will be successful. Yes it's a shame to lose any 'wave down a train' stations but I guess times move on. The two concerns I have really for this system versus the current one is a failsafe, but this will be worked out as part of the trial and possibly adapted, and how early some people may have to get to a station. That would also be worked out and sorted in the trial, I trust it will work and someone will keep an eye on it.

If proven successful, I wonder if some more stations could become request stops where currently, it isn't viable for it to be a request stop with a 'wave the train down' but if it was a button system, it would be viable. Perhaps evenings when things are quieter, introduce the button request on some stations with lower usage. Currently it wouldn't work because a driver wouldn't see a passenger such time they are basically stopped, they might as well stop. Button request of course means drivers are notified and may pass through at line speed if they aren't notified of a passenger thus speeding up the journey.

 

[Dougal2345]

One other benefit from this system, which I don't think has been broached in this thread, is that it abrogates the need for the train to decelerate and accelerate at every station.

So that's money saved for the operator (less brake wear and fuel use) and environmental benefits for the world in general...

Looks like a way to make travel a bit less attractive.

Crikey, you're easily dismayed!

 

[najaB]

One other benefit from this system, which I don't think has been broached in this thread, is that it abrogates the need for the train to decelerate and accelerate at every station

It's been mentioned a few times previously. Though nobody's mentioned the wear and tear angle.

 

[Meerkat]

And where will the buttons be put: if they are inside some sort of shelter or cover they may be overlooked by those unfamiliar with the station. If they are in the open; well, the highlands are famed for having mild weather all-year-round. How long before the first story in the Scottish edition of the Daily Mail, “I and my three middle-class children were left to freeze because of ScotRail’s stupid rules.”

The button is on the unit which also has the train running times on it. How many people don't check the screen to see the time and when the train is coming?
Hopefully that screen can show the train as stopping, once the button is pressed.

 

[Spaceflower]

A good idea if it works reliably and can cope with last minute arrivals ( by people). Only feasible where there isn’t a local idiot population who get their kicks out of playing with buttons, though!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Surely there’s got to be a minimum time before the scheduled call to press the button in order to let the train slow down sufficiently?

 

[najaB]

Surely there’s got to be a minimum time before the scheduled call to press the button in order to let the train slow down sufficiently?

Naturally, there will be - it will depend on the line speed. While the screens on display in the photo attached to the initial post don't show it, I image that in operation that would be displayed prominently in the area above the button.

 

[Class800]

It seems a good idea as long as the change is well communicated and if the button or the system isn't working, the driver is notified and it reverts to the traditional request stop protocol. However, adding a button near the doors for passengers on a train to request alighting at a request stop (like on a bus) would be even more useful, as sometimes guards are hard to find, especially if on short journeys

 

[Mordac]

How about just putting CCTV on the platforms to catch anyone playing with the buttons?

 

[edwin_m]

I noticed these at a request halt on the Salzberger Lokalbahn (Arnsdorf .b Lamprechtshausen https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.9698148,12.9341295,374m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0). There was a panel inside the shelter with two buttons: the user pressed one according to the direction they wanted to go to request the train to stop. I don't know how it was worked - perhaps set a signal to red or sent a message to the cab.

There are some on the Karlsruhe tram-trains that illuminate a lamp attached to an OLE pole and marked "Stadtbahn Haltewunch" ("local train request to stop").

How many minutes before the scheduled time does one have to be there and press the button? Looks like a way to make travel a bit less attractive.

It would be easy enough to show the time in the timetable as say 2min earlier than the time it would actually pass. That way the train is guaranteed to stop as long as the button is pressed before the scheduled time. Actual arrival times on request stop routes are somewhat random in any case, because they depend on how many stops the train has made since the last compulsory stop where it would wait for time.

How about just putting CCTV on the platforms to catch anyone playing with the buttons?

Something like the ones in automated supermarket checkouts could grab a photo of the person pressing the button. There could also be a timeout so if the button is pressed more than say 20min before train time it would be ignored and a message displayed to this effect.