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Scotrail M-tickets withdrawn on certain routes.

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Kite159

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Agreed, Scotrail is probably the best TOC I've seen with onboard ticket checks. If people are buying short distance tickets to doughnut (which Scotrail are saying is why they're withdrawing m-tickets from certain routes) then these ticket checks should identify the issue.
The issue with passengers travelling is how the guard can identity those passengers whom have boarded at station X (for example Inverkeithing), especially if the train is busy or is formed of multiple units which lack gangways (158+170 or a pair of 170s).

Even if said short farer is in the carriage, the guard is in asking "Tickets from X" they probably know if they don't make any sort of movement the guard can easily overlook them (unless there is something unusual with their appearance such as an unusual hat which the guard sees boarding).

Scotrail within Glasgow which is DOO with Ticket Examiners is better for revenue than guards, because after-all for a guard revenue duties are below keeping the train safe.
 
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Hadders

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Clearly prosecutions and penalty fares aren't going to work for ScotRail, so they will have to recover what they can through other methods of revenue protection, including civil recovery.
You have to wonder whether it would be worth Scotrail funding additional BTP officers to assist with prosecutions, if the level of fare evasion is similar to that on Chiltern it might be worthwhile.

The issue with passengers travelling is how the guard can identity those passengers whom have boarded at station X (for example Inverkeithing), especially if the train is busy or is formed of multiple units which lack gangways (158+170 or a pair of 170s).

Even if said short farer is in the carriage, the guard is in asking "Tickets from X" they probably know if they don't make any sort of movement the guard can easily overlook them (unless there is something unusual with their appearance such as an unusual hat which the guard sees boarding).

Scotrail within Glasgow which is DOO with Ticket Examiners is better for revenue than guards, because after-all for a guard revenue duties are below keeping the train safe.
You're never going to catch every fare evader but onboard checks are a deterrent in themselves. People will fare evade if they believe they can get away with it, if they think they might be caught they are more likely to buy the correct fare.
 

Cantab26

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It's a high bar to get the COPFS interested in prosecuting fare evasion and other railway ticketing matters; in practical terms, there are likely to be very, very few such cases taken on.

Is anyone aware of any such prosecution in Scotland?
Yes, although only very rarely.
Clearly prosecutions and penalty fares aren't going to work for ScotRail, so they will have to recover what they can through other methods of revenue protection, including civil recovery.
Why (specifically) would they not work for ScotRail?
As a side note, I was at High Street station on Tuesday evening and there were at least half a dozen ScotRail staff on the gateline doing ticket checks.

This is an easy location to cover (it only has one, small entrance) and it is well-used as an alternative to Queen Street and by people heading to/from Bellgrove / Duke Street stations for matches at Celtic Park.

It does have ticket barriers, but of course they can't prevent short-ticketing.
Does this mean that ticket barriers and a gateline have been installed at High Street within the past month?
 

reb0118

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You're never going to catch every fare evader but onboard checks are a deterrent in themselves. People will fare evade if they believe they can get away with it, if they think they might be caught they are more likely to buy the correct fare.

This^

As a conductor passengers rarely lie to me, on the train, (albeit it does happen) about where they board. Why? Because most are honest OR they assume that I already know where they boarded because I actually observed them boarding. Most don't want confrontation.

Conversely, when arriving at a barrier the percentage of those lying significantly increases. When I was off train running I helped out at the barriers for a couple of days - about 90% of my sales were from the last station on each line (even though I recognised many who regularly travel from further out).

However, when the option exists to use technology with no face to face human interaction the percentage of irregularities again increases significantly. More people will lie to a machine than a human.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is.

ScotRail simply have to make their case to the Procurator fiscal. Essentially evidencing that they have taken all other reasonable steps and a case would be in the public interest.

As far as I'm aware ScotRail do not have direct reporting powers to the Procurator Fiscal. They would have to involve the BTP.

In my experience whenever, rarely, involving the BTP in a ticketing matter, they have failed to understand the situation and either take no action or offer the passenger an opportunity to purchase a ticket to close the matter. Therefore, the Fiscal will see very few cases, if any.

It would be interesting to know how many prosecutions for fare evasion have occurred in Scotland over the last year
 
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sheff1

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eTickets can be added to your device's wallet for easy access
eTickets can be stored as a PDF
eTickets can be shared out to each individual in your group
eTickets can be printed
eTickets just work
The e-ticket I bought last week could not be added to my device's wallet, which is a bit annoying as that is where I prefer to store my tickets.
 

BlueLeanie

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Google Maps says 3.7 miles, taking 1 hour 21 minutes. Most people don't walk at over 4 mph.
I'd suggest that someone who was a brisk walker is far more likely to walk 3.7 miles than someone who was a slow walker.

Looking at the route.shown by Google, it doesn't seem to take into consideration a number of potential paths.
 

Starmill

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I'd suggest that someone who was a brisk walker is far more likely to walk 3.7 miles than someone who was a slow walker.

Looking at the route.shown by Google, it doesn't seem to take into consideration a number of potential paths.
I'm not sure what this really has to do with the point though? The point was simply that as the train is only six minutes, it's very unlikely that anyone would switch from using it to walking. Regardless of whether they would take 60, 75, 90, or however many more minutes to walk.
 

psmith2023

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They won't everybody on e tickets they can keep track with GPS

Moderator note: This is not the case
 
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I'm not sure what this really has to do with the point though? The point was simply that as the train is only six minutes, it's very unlikely that anyone would switch from using it to walking. Regardless of whether they would take 60, 75, 90, or however many more minutes to walk.
The sensible thing would be walking to St John's Road then catching one of the frequent bus services to Haymarket. Or Bankhead for the tram. Certainly longer than six minutes however a train return isn't especially attractive unless you live right next to the station.
Admittedly train journeys between South Gyle and Haymarket are more credible than from Slateford station, but still quite niche.
 

Hadders

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As far as I'm aware ScotRail do not have direct reporting powers to the Procurator Fiscal. They would have to involve the BTP.
What I don't understand is that if fare evasion is so rife in Scotland why don't Scotrail fund some additional BTP officers to work on preparing fare evasion cases for the Procurator Fiscal?
 

Starmill

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The sensible thing would be walking to St John's Road then catching one of the frequent bus services to Haymarket. Or Bankhead for the tram. Certainly longer than six minutes however a train return isn't especially attractive unless you live right next to the station.
Admittedly train journeys between South Gyle and Haymarket are more credible than from Slateford station, but still quite niche.
Anyone for whom that's the best option would already not be using the train. As we've already covered.
 

reb0118

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What I don't understand is that if fare evasion is so rife in Scotland why don't Scotrail fund some additional BTP officers to work on preparing fare evasion cases for the Procurator Fiscal?

The explanations I've heard is that when ScotRail was privately operated they did not want to be seen criminalising their passengers (we were even, seriously, told to refer to them as non paying customers).
Also the the justice system is not interested in pursuing fare evasion maters.
And finally the government do not want an increase in recorded crime.

Yet, almost, every train I work has some element of accidental or deliberate evasion.
 
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