Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[Mag_seven]

“The Scottish Government announced today that procurement will begin to replace its Intercity trains.

The procurement, which will be led by ScotRail on behalf of Transport Scotland, will seek a replacement for the High Speed Train (HST) fleet which operates on its InterCity routes between Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and Inverness.

Procurement underway to replace ScotRail High Speed Trains - Rail UK

Procurement underway to replace ScotRail High Speed Trains - Rolling Stock

railuk.com

This is now being discussed here:

Scotrail to replace HSTs

New procurement announced by Scottish Government to replace HSTs The Scottish Government announced today that procurement will begin to replace its Intercity trains. The procurement, which will be led by ScotRail on behalf of Transport Scotland, will seek a replacement for the High Speed Train...

www.railforums.co.uk

Discussion in the thread should be confined to current operations only.

thanks

 

[fgwrich]

43128 & 43169 have both left Loughborough, with 128 expected to touch down in Haymarket depot later today, and 169 expected to arrive tomorrow. Not long until 128 finally enters service with ScotRail!

Both are being conveyed by Allelys with 128 setting off late Tuesday night and 169 departing Wednesday afternoon.

 

[Devon Sunset]

128 waiting to be unloaded this morning.

 

[Railperf]

128 waiting to be unloaded this morning.

Any sign that the amount of diagrams will increase now that more HST power cars are available?

 

[Scotrail84]

Any sign that the amount of diagrams will increase now that more HST power cars are available?

Could be doing with a few more on Edinburgh/Glasgow - Inverness services. Especially on a Sunday because at present most are a 3 car 170.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

They are returning on the back of a truck, rather than by rail. I hope this isn’t an indication that they are unserviceable or returning to be stripped for parts.

 

[chuff chuff]

They are returning on the back of a truck, rather than by rail. I hope this isn’t an indication that they are unserviceable or returning to be stripped for parts.

They were away to be put back into serviceable condition.

 

[fgwrich]

They were away to be put back into serviceable condition.

Particularly in the case of 128 which has spent the last few years keeping its brothers alive as a "Christmas tree".

 

[Railperf]

But still no sign of the WSP program starting? So Scotrail face another autumn of power cars out of service awaiting the wheel lathe again?

 

[Scotrail84]

But still no sign of the WSP program starting? So Scotrail face another autumn of power cars out of service awaiting the wheel lathe again?

Do HSTs not have WSP protection?

 

[Railperf]

The power car WSP equipment is the 1976 vintage original and isn’t great. Autumn 2024 should be much better as the new KnorrBremse WSP should be fitted by then.

 

[hexagon789]

Do HSTs not have WSP protection?

They do, but the ex-GWR ScotRail ones have the original type which is a bit basic. There were two BR types, one in-house design and one Girling design, Mk3 vehicles were fitted with either depending on batch.

Since privatisation improved WSP has been fitted to most fleets, but FGW/GWR chose not to have it fitted despite it improving wheel life.

 

[Scotrail84]

They do, but the ex-GWR ScotRail ones have the original type which is a bit basic. There were two BR types, one in-house design and one Girling design, Mk3 vehicles were fitted with either depending on batch.

Since privatisation improved WSP has been fitted to most fleets, but FGW/GWR chose not to have it fitted despite it improving wheel life.

Unlikely to do that now given they will be withdrawn in 5-6 years you'd think?

 

[Christmas]

Can anyone with any in depth experience of operating the ScotRail HSTs tell us where the conversions went so wrong?

Nothing on them seems to work reliably. The conductor has an office that's more like a cell without any windows. I mean who'd have thought that a conductor might find it useful to know exactly where their train is at any given time!

Apart from getting rid of the slam doors, why couldn't they leave everything else alone?

 

[BRX]

But still no sign of the WSP program starting? So Scotrail face another autumn of power cars out of service awaiting the wheel lathe again?

I found this

HST Trailer Car WSP Rack Overhaul [Tender Notice]

ScotRail Trains Limited (herein referenced as ScotRail) wish to overhaul the existing Knorr Bremse E... A Tender Notice by Scotrail Trains.

bidstats.uk

Description​

ScotRail Trains Limited (herein referenced as ScotRail) wish to overhaul the existing Knorr Bremse EP98 WSP control units on their fleet of 117 trailer cars and spares stock. The WSP control units (Railway Cat number 064/012539) were installed in the mid-2000s, and are starting to suffer from failures related to leaking electrolytic capacitors, leading to damage to the PCB tracks and vias.

Appears to have a target of completion by autumn 2025.

 

[scotraildriver]

Can anyone with any in depth experience of operating the ScotRail HSTs tell us where the conversions went so wrong?

Nothing on them seems to work reliably. The conductor has an office that's more like a cell without any windows. I mean who'd have thought that a conductor might find it useful to know exactly where their train is at any given time!

Apart from getting rid of the slam doors, why couldn't they leave everything else alone?

Apart from the conductors office and buffet area pretty much everything else was left alone. The quality of work done by Wabtec was very poor, their internal sliding door modification was rubbish, the power supply to the buffet area didn't work and the general build quality very shoddy. The sliding door conversion has never been very reliable either. But a big issue was and continues to be corrosion. These coaches were rotten in 2018 and still leak like crazy and have patches everywhere which causes never ending electrical faults. They are done and replacements can't come quick enough. Oddly enough in my experience the power cars are generally very reliable, it's the coaches that cause a lot of the grief.

 

[Scotrail84]

Apart from the conductors office and buffet area pretty much everything else was left alone. The quality of work done by Wabtec was very poor, their internal sliding door modification was rubbish, the power supply to the buffet area didn't work and the general build quality very shoddy. The sliding door conversion has never been very reliable either. But a big issue was and continues to be corrosion. These coaches were rotten in 2018 and still leak like crazy and have patches everywhere which causes never ending electrical faults. They are done and replacements can't come quick enough. Oddly enough in my experience the power cars are generally very reliable, it's the coaches that cause a lot of the grief.

Power sockets, wifi and internal sliding doors seem to be the most complained about issues from passengers, unpredictable air con as well, one coach can be stifling hot and the next one along can be freezing. Thats not exclusive to HSTs though.

 

[scotraildriver]

Power sockets, wifi and internal sliding doors seem to be the most complained about issues from passengers, unpredictable air con as well, one coach can be stifling hot and the next one along can be freezing. Thats not exclusive to HSTs though.

The issue with the power sockets, like all trains, is that people plug in straighteners etc and trip the circuit breaker. Unfortunately on HSTs it's not easily accessible for staff to reset.

 

[northscots]

Power sockets, wifi and internal sliding doors seem to be the most complained about issues from passengers, unpredictable air con as well, one coach can be stifling hot and the next one along can be freezing. Thats not exclusive to HSTs though.

Power sockets that trip out
Vestibule doors that don't work
Inconsistent air con.
Saloon doors that's don't work in the cold weather.
Conductors office that doesn't have working power or a door that opens and closes correctly.
Buffets all out of service because of power issues.
Leaking roofs in wet weather
Seats that break constantly (head rests in standard class, recline in 1st class)
Swing doors in 1st class that slam open under breaking.
Door faults on accessible toilets
Poor cab to cab communication.
Automated passenger announcements that dont work correctly.
That's just the passenger coaches. I'm sure a driver could write a book on regular issues with the power cars.

 

[N Scorah]

Particularly in the case of 128 which has spent the last few years keeping its brothers alive as a "Christmas tree".

A Christmas tree?

 

[trebor79]

A Christmas tree?

Parts donor

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Power sockets that trip out
Vestibule doors that don't work
Inconsistent air con.
Saloon doors that's don't work in the cold weather.
Conductors office that doesn't have working power or a door that opens and closes correctly.
Buffets all out of service because of power issues.
Leaking roofs in wet weather
Seats that break constantly (head rests in standard class, recline in 1st class)
Swing doors in 1st class that slam open under breaking.
Door faults on accessible toilets
Poor cab to cab communication.
Automated passenger announcements that dont work correctly.
That's just the passenger coaches. I'm sure a driver could write a book on regular issues with the power cars.

It really does sound that, like the TfW MK4 project, what seemed like a swanky idea at first might have just been better with a simple unit order from the start.

 

[hexagon789]

It really does sound that, like the TfW MK4 project, what seemed like a swanky idea at first might have just been better with a simple unit order from the start.

The alternative option was refurbished 170s in reconfigured formations as I recall; that was what FirstGroup included as part of their bid against Abellio.

I don't think new-build was part of the bids offered, but I could be wrong.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is for current operations; if anyone wants to post what might have been, that would be best placed in a separate thread, thanks.

 

[InvHst]

43169 made it's long awaited return to service today! And 43128 is rumoured to be out by the start of next week however it may just appear tomorrow at some point.

 

[hexagon789]

Two updates:

43169 returned to revenue service today, after some two years.

Trailer set HA15 was made up to five-car on Monay, with the insertion of 42078.

Also, 43128 may return to revenue service also next week, if not then likely soon.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Two updates:

43169 returned to revenue service today, after some two years.

Trailer set HA15 was made up to five-car on Monay, with the insertion of 42078.

Also, 43128 may return to revenue service also next week, if not then likely soon.

43128 should be tomorrow morning on freshly extended HA12.

 

[hexagon789]

43128 should be tomorrow morning on freshly extended HA12.

Many thanks

 

[InvHst]

As expected 128 has entered service off the 930 Edinburgh Aberdeen

 

[chuff chuff]

As expected 128 has entered service off the 930 Edinburgh Aberdeen

Should pass it later on today,will make a change from seeing lying outside the shed at haymarket for months.