ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Jamesrob637]

The 19th, diagrams should be up thread sonewhere.

Shouldn't the HST diagrams themselves go to a separate thread under "Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables" given a) this thread should serve more for opinions and updates on the trains themselves and b) it's 307 pages long according to Chrome!

 

[hexagon789]

Shouldn't the HST diagrams themselves go to a separate thread under "Allocations, Diagrams and Timetables" given a) this thread should serve more for opinions and updates on the trains themselves and b) it's 307 pages long according to Chrome!

True, I'll have a look for it at some point but essentially there are 11 Mon-Fri diagrams at present, from the 19th that goes to 15.

 

[JLUK144]

I bookmarked the page this was on so I could always come back to it and quote it when necessary

Taken from Today's Railways UK Issue 211 - July 2019:

Monday-Friday

HA901
1A41 05.30 EDB-ABD 08.14
1B18 09.04 ABD-EDB 11.37
1A75 12.30 EDB-ABD 14.50
1B40 16.02 ABD-EDB 18.33
1A88 19.34 EDB-ABD 21.53 Stables AC

HA902
1B07 05.49 ABD-EDB 08.24
1A55 09.28 EDB-ABD 11.51
1B32 13.12 ABD-EDB 15.33
1A79 16.28 EDB-ABD 19.05
1B51 20.10 ADB-EDB 22.47 Stables HA

HA903
1A47 05.53 GLQ-ABD 08.37
1T14 09.42 ABD-GLQ 12.18
1A63 12.39 GLQ-ABD 15.14
1T38 16.30 ABD-GLQ 19.10
1A81 19.38 GLQ-ABD 22.20 Stables AC

HA904 (FX)
1T10 07.35 ABD-GLQ 10.10
1A59 10.40 GLQ-ABD 13.11
1T26 13.48 ABD-GLQ 16.18
1A77 16.42 GLQ-ABD 19.27
1T48 19.43 ABD-GLQ 22.21 Stables ED

HA941 (from 19th August)
1H23 06.13 ABD-INV 08.36
1B52 09.44 INV-EDB 13.20
1H13 13.33 EDB-INV 16.55
1T62 17.27 INV-GLQ 20.45 Stables PTH

HA942 (from 19th August)
1A45 07.29 EDB-ABD 09.56
1B24 11.02 ABD-EDB 13.28
1A78 15.28 EDB-ABD 17.54
1T44 18.38 ABD-GLQ 21.15
1A95 21.40 GLQ-ABD 00.30 Stables AC

HA943 (from 19th August)
1A44 06.00 INV-ABD 08.08
1T12 08.49 ABD-GLQ 11.17
1A61 11.39 GLQ-ABD 14.10
1T32 14.42 ABD-GLQ 17.17
1A83 17.40 GLQ-ABD 20.26
1B42 21.07 ABD-EDB 23.29 Stables HA

HA944
1T98 08.45 INV-GLQ 12.07
1H15 15.08 GLQ-INV 18.26
1B44 18.54 INV-EDB 22.23 Stables EDB

HA945
1A53 08.39 GLQ-ABD 11.21
1T22 12.47 ABD-GLQ 15.18
1A73 15.39 GLQ-ABD 18.17
1B47 19.16 ABD-EDB 21.35 Stables HA

HA946 (from 19th August)
1H07 08.34 EDB-INV 12.01
1B31 12.48 INV-EDB 16.34
1H17 17.42 EDB-INV 21.01 Stables INV

HA947 (from 19th May to 18th August)
2A11 06.13 ADB-DYC 06.21
2A12 06.50 DYC-ABD 06.59
1B14 07.07 ADB-EDB 09.31
1A71 11.32 EDB-ABD 13.52
1T34 15.38 ABD-GLQ 18.23
1A87 18.40 GLQ-ABD 21.20 Stables AC

HA947 (from 19th August)
1B14 04.53 INV-EDB 09.31
1A71 11.32 EDB-ABD 13.52
1T34 15.38 ABD-GLQ 18.23
1A87 18.40 GLQ-INV 00.08 Stables IS

HA949
1T08 06.38 ABD-GLQ 09.11
1A57 09.40 GLQ-ABD 12.34
1B35 13.57 ABD-EDB 16.31
1A81 17.36 EDB-ABD 20.05
1T54 20.44 ADB-GLQ 23.21 Stables ED

HA951
1A51 07.41 GLQ-ABD 10.15
1T18 10.46 ADB-GLQ 13.18
1A67 13.39 GLQ-ABD 16.22
1T40 17.39 ABD-GLQ 20.26
1A91 20.40 GLQ-ABD 23.21 Stables AC

HA952
1T06 05.39 ABD-GLQ 08.30
1H51 12.08 GLQ-INV 15.22
1B54 15.54 INV-EDB 19.34
1H19 19.41 EDB-INV 23.21 Stables IS

HA953 (from 19th May-14th June)
1H05 07.07 GLQ-INV 10.29
1A50 11.02 INV-INR 12.47
1H33 13.59 INR-INV 16.01
1A58 17.13 INV-INR 19.17
1H41 20.35 INR-INV 22.29 Stables IS

HA953 (from 15th June to 18th August)
1H05 07.07 GLQ-INV 10.29
1A50 11.02 INV-HNT 12.16
1H31 11.51 HNT-INV 14.08
1A56 15.27 INV-HNT 16.49
1H37 18.20 HNT-INV 19.38
1H68 20.32 INV-ELG 21.14 Stables IS

HA953 (from 19th August to 14th December)
1H05 07.07 GLQ-INV 10.29
1A50 11.02 INV-ABD 13.10
1H33 13.38 ABD-INV 16.01
1A58 17.13 INV-ABD 19.40 Stables AC

HA971 (until 18th August)
1A45 07.29 EDB-ABD 09.56
1B24 11.02 ABD-EDB 13.28
1A78 15.28 EDB-ABD 17.54
1T44 18.38 ABD-GLQ 21.15
1A95 21.40 GLQ-ABD 00.30 Stables AC

HA972 (from 19th May until 18th August)
1T12 08.49 ABD-GLQ 11.17
1A61 11.39 GLQ-ABD 14.10
1T32 14.42 ABD-GLQ 17.17
1A83 17.40 GLQ-ABD 20.26
1B42 21.07 ABD-EDB 23.29 Stables HA

 

[hexagon789]

I bookmarked the page this was on so I could always come back to it and quote it when necessary

Execellent, saves me having to hunt through this thread for it.

So yes - 11 diagrams now; 15 from the 19th.

 

[JLUK144]

Execellent, saves me having to hunt through this thread for it.

You’re welcome.

 

[Northhighland]

Interesting to read the improved service timetable for the HML. Still leaves some of the busiest services on 170’s. Surely they could have targeted the busier times for the improved capacity?

 

[Caleb2010]

As someone up-thread said, they would then be able to couple pairs of 170's and 158's to strengthen services still operated by them.

Though I wouldn't hold your breath for that!

It'll probably never happen, more 170's will go off lease and there'll be nothing to couple to. So thinking about it, yes, the peak services will probably still be 2 or 3 car jobs and the off peak tourism market will have the spacious 4 & 5 car units!

Thank god the 153's are being de-seated - or one day they'll have one of them turn up on the HML in place of an HST.!

 

[Doveymain158]

Has anyone got updated Scotrail HST diagrams from Next week for the highland Mainline and the Inverness-Aberdeen line?

 

[JLUK144]

Has anyone got updated Scotrail HST diagrams from Next week for the highland Mainline and the Inverness-Aberdeen line?

I quoted the diagrams a few days ago. You’ll come across it if you scroll up.

 

[158722]

As someone up-thread said, they would then be able to couple pairs of 170's and 158's to strengthen services still operated by them.

Though I wouldn't hold your breath for that!

It'll probably never happen, more 170's will go off lease and there'll be nothing to couple to. So thinking about it, yes, the peak services will probably still be 2 or 3 car jobs and the off peak tourism market will have the spacious 4 & 5 car units!

Thank god the 153's are being de-seated - or one day they'll have one of them turn up on the HML in place of an HST.!

170416-420 are allegedly off lease soon, destined for EMR apparently, the deal with Southern not being proceeded with.

 

[najaB]

170416-420 are allegedly off lease soon, destined for EMR apparentl

EMR being East Midlands Rail (i.e. EMT) or European Metal Recycling?

 

[43096]

EMR being East Midlands Rail (i.e. EMT) or European Metal Recycling?

Pretty obviously East Midlands Railway.

 

[fgwrich]

Pretty obviously East Midlands Railway.

Given the state of them, European Metal Recycling would probably be more apt. It certainly was a disappointing downgrade catching 418 last week to Stirling in place of the booked HST, though fortunately as I wasn't in a hurry I chose to spend an hour in the city and caught the preceding HST onwards (Even if that was formed of the former and equally dire LA15 vehicles!).

Back to the HST's for a moment, could anyone tell me which where the 6 Mk3s that left Haymarket for Doncaster and Ely this week please?

 

[43096]

Given the state of them, European Metal Recycling would probably be more apt. It certainly was a disappointing downgrade catching 418 last week to Stirling in place of the booked HST, though fortunately as I wasn't in a hurry I chose to spend an hour in the city and caught the preceding HST onwards (Even if that was formed of the former and equally dire LA15 vehicles!).

Back to the HST's for a moment, could anyone tell me which where the 6 Mk3s that left Haymarket for Doncaster and Ely this week please?

Reported as 42574 42588* 41146 42300 42299 44040

* There is no 42588, maybe a mistype for 42558?

 

[najaB]

Pretty obviously East Midlands Railway.

Except, of course, that it's still East Midlands Trains, so not that obvious.

 

[43096]

Except, of course, that it's still East Midlands Trains, so not that obvious.

But you knew that East Midlands Railway exists!!!!!!

Given what has been said on here about a) the East Mids Franchise, b) the general shortage of diesel trains, c) the PRM deadline at the end of the year, why would you think they were going for scrap. An absolutely dumb question that got a more polite answer than it really deserved.

 

[Esker-pades]

Except, of course, that it's still East Midlands Trains, so not that obvious.

Except that the phrase used was "destined for EMR", and the 170s will never be used by EMT.

 

[najaB]

Except that the phrase used was "destined for EMR", and the 170s will never be used by EMT.

Nor was the phrase "leased to" or "used by". "Destined for" implies permanence.

Anyway, I have an answer and you've scored your point, let's move on with talking about Scotrail's HSTs.

 

[Prestige15]

According to RAIL issue 885, All four car sets may get extended to five cars, Scotrail has also discussed the possibility of leasing more stock, Nor have they ruled out having more I7C sets possibly on other routes but nothing is yet confirmed

 

[47271]

According to RAIL issue 885, All four car sets may get extended to five cars, Scotrail has also discussed the possibility of leasing more stock, Nor have they ruled out having more I7C sets possibly on other routes but nothing is yet confirmed

Great news! That should keep Wabtec in work for the next five years at least.

Seriously, if they can run reliably enough for a long enough life and provide the capacity that the Scotrail network needs then maybe the programme will eventually prove to be a success after all.

I travelled First Class on a refurbed set for the first time last week and there's no doubt that the combination of comfort and service (okay, just a coffee and biscuit but the guy was very polite, and then another person cleared up the second I was finished) made the trip the best onboard experience I've had in the UK since the days of East Coast.

 

[hexagon789]

According to RAIL issue 885, All four car sets may get extended to five cars, Scotrail has also discussed the possibility of leasing more stock, Nor have they ruled out having more I7C sets possibly on other routes but nothing is yet confirmed

This was mentioned some weeks ago, that ScotRail were in talks with Angel Trains about procuring more Mk3 trailers to make all sets up to 2+5.

 

[43096]

According to RAIL issue 885, All four car sets may get extended to five cars, Scotrail has also discussed the possibility of leasing more stock, Nor have they ruled out having more I7C sets possibly on other routes but nothing is yet confirmed

Oh how I would laugh if they did take some more sets and 43002 was one of the power cars selected.

 

[47271]

Oh how I would laugh if they did take some more sets and 43002 was one of the power cars selected.

You would laugh, and I would use it as an excuse to bang on my favourite subject in relation to the power cars. So here goes again....

For goodness sake put the fronts in a scheme that picks up on the original sleek Kenneth Grange design, so horizontal lines please, not something that makes them look awkward and top heavy as everything after InterCity has. What's with this slapping a patch of yellow up the front, it's idiotic? You just need to look at the pictures of the restored 43002 to see that. They can have all the grubby vinyls with little pictures of Scottish cities they like further back, but can we have yellow-Scotrail blue-yellow wrapped round the front.

Rant over, thank you everyone. I feel better for that.

 

[43096]

You would laugh, and I would use it as an excuse to bang on my favourite subject in relation to the power cars. So here goes again....

For goodness sake put the fronts in a scheme that picks up on the original sleek Kenneth Grange design, so horizontal lines please, not something that makes them look awkward and top heavy as everything after InterCity has. What's with this slapping a patch of yellow up the front, it's idiotic? You just need to look at the pictures of the restored 43002 to see that. They can have all the grubby vinyls with little pictures of Scottish cities they like further back, but can we have yellow-Scotrail blue-yellow wrapped round the front.

Rant over, thank you everyone. I feel better for that.

They'd have looked much better in the standard "SpotRail" blue than the seven cities.

 

[47271]

They'd have looked much better in the standard "SpotRail" blue than the seven cities.

Yeah, maybe, I'm not so bothered about that, I think the mk3s suit the grey and Scotrail blue fine, but Spotrail combined with the traditional front would've been great.

It's the missed opportunity with the power car noses after 25 years of vehicle design illiteracy from a succession of franchised operators more interested in their dodgy brands that upsets me, argh!!!

Still time to put it right...

Anyway, I'll stop now.

 

[Chris125]

They'd have looked much better in the standard "SpotRail" blue than the seven cities.

If nothing else 'Spotrail' hides the dirt way better.

 

[Indigo Soup]

As someone up-thread said, they would then be able to couple pairs of 170's and 158's to strengthen services still operated by them.

Entirely off-topic, but was driving past Carrbridge station and saw a 170+158 formation heading north yesterday. There's something about that combination that I quite like, for no particularly obvious reason.

If nothing else 'Spotrail' hides the dirt way better.

I actually really like 'Spotrail', partly because I recently realised that the shade of blue they use is a very close match to the shade used by CIWL! 'Scotrail Blue' on the lower part of the body with 'Inter7City Grey' on the upper body would work really well, I think, tying the Inter7City brand to the wider Scotrail one but still distinctly identifying the services.

It'll never happen, I know....

 

[47271]

Well, back to square one for the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness tonight. A classic set rolled into Waverley from Haymarket Depot 15 mins late, strewn with litter and with no seat reservations. It's obviously been sat in the sun for quite some time without power, it's very warm into the bargain.

The service was a 170 over the summer and ready in the platform 20 minutes before departure. I'd have chosen that over this shambles.

The contrast with the experience I reported in post 9230 couldn't be greater. Somehow when they send out a refurbed set they manage to have someone onboard collecting litter, when it's a classic it can't even leave the depot clean!

 

[Caleb2010]

Oh dear, it doesn't bode well for my trip next week, Wednesday I'm getting the 13.35 Aviemore to Edinburgh, returning on Friday on the 13.33. Both are supposed to be HST's - I'm looking forward to it, but from what I understand, the refurbished set's are ok but the 'Classic' sets leave a lot to be desired!

I take it that if an HST isn't available it would likely end up being a 170!

Is there a way of working out what cycle the refurbished set's are on? Does one diagram follow the previous?

 

[hexagon789]

Oh dear, it doesn't bode well for my trip next week, Wednesday I'm getting the 13.35 Aviemore to Edinburgh, returning on Friday on the 13.33. Both are supposed to be HST's - I'm looking forward to it, but from what I understand, the refurbished set's are ok but the 'Classic' sets leave a lot to be desired!

I take it that if an HST isn't available it would likely end up being a 170!

Is there a way of working out what cycle the refurbished set's are on? Does one diagram follow the previous?

If scot-rail is to be believed the first few diagrams are the Inter7City - HA901-904, the others being Classics.