ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[mcmad]

I see the Scotrail apologists are back out in full force, bugger the passengers as usual they'll be fined crammed onto a 170 or 158 instead.

 

[hexagon789]

Set 4 is ready (at least the coaches are), it was the power car that had a problem.

So we should see it "imminently"!

 

[Darandio]

I see the Scotrail apologists are back out in full force

Either they are apologists or you refuse to acknowledge facts. I suspect the latter.

 

[43096]

I see the Scotrail apologists are back out in full force, bugger the passengers as usual they'll be fined crammed onto a 170 or 158 instead.

Usual “end of the world” doom merchants are out I see....

 

[Indigo Soup]

I see the Scotrail apologists are back out in full force, bugger the passengers as usual they'll be fined crammed onto a 170 or 158 instead.

It's perfectly possible to say that the current state of affairs is unacceptable, and recognise that getting new stock in isn't as easy as just sticking it on the back of a passing East Coast express.

 

[mcmad]

Caley sleeper managed to find a path to move (the last?) of the mk5's North today, why is it so difficult for Scotrail/Wabtec? The whole HST project has been a fiasco from start to now, its slowly starting to get better but even basic like improving stabling points seem to have been a last minute afterthought.

 

[Highland37]

You are right. "Fiasco" is a good description of this project. At least the Fyra trains actually arrived at some point.

For factual accuracy, can we understand the following (correct me please if I am wrong):

• Three refurbished HSTs, of 27, have been delivered.
• One is in daily service.
• Set's two and three have carried no passengers (?)
• Set four is "ready" but unable to depart due to lack of paths/lack of drivers/it doesn't work properly.
• Set five is "imminent".... as of 1st May.
• There are 22 sets to be delivered by 31st December this year.....

 

[najaB]

Caley sleeper managed to find a path to move (the last?) of the mk5's North today, why is it so difficult for Scotrail/Wabtec?

Do you know when that path was entered?

 

[43096]

Caley sleeper managed to find a path to move (the last?) of the mk5's North today, why is it so difficult for Scotrail/Wabtec?

Most people seem to have grasped the reasons why, why is it so difficult for you?

 

[mcmad]

Most people are just ignoring the issue, there is no problem. What is so difficult for you to understand?

 

[InOban]

I notice there's an STP from Loughborough to Wabtec tomorrow. Maybe the power car had to visit there for repair.

 

[43096]

I notice there's an STP from Loughborough to Wabtec tomorrow. Maybe the power car had to visit there for repair.

More likely to be the next pair of power cars to be released from Brush after their overhaul (should be 43133/147 out next).

But.... they may do a power car swap at Wabtec so they take the set north. Indeed there should have been a move to Haymarket today that was cancelled, so they may be being diverted to pick up the set.

 

[Maxfly]

Most people are just ignoring the issue, there is no problem. What is so difficult for you to understand?

I thought I gave what was a common sense answer, paths are unlikely to have been the issue but crew to move set may have been. Common sense would have told you that ScotRail do not have drivers that sign the route the delivery paths take, until they reach Scotland obviously Therefore they will be dependent on hire in’s such as ROG who I think are contracted for the job (happy to be corrected on this), in turn ROG have plenty other work so may have no drivers available once the power car failure meant the slot was missed.
Could ScotRail have tried harder, did they try at all or did the exhaust all avenues?
Neither you or I know but just rapping out the ‘they did nufink’ line is the easy option and showed no thought was put into the possibilities of what why and when tbh, which anyone can do.

 

[InOban]

Is it Scotrail's responsibility to deliver the trains, at least as far as Edinburgh, or is it Wabtec's?

 

[FtoE]

I’ve been getting the classic 17:25 from Inverness quite a bit recently. Can’t remember the last time there was a catering trolley on it. Obviously not a major issue - but perhaps they could advise on the departure boards so that people could buy a bottle of water or whatever for what can be a 3 hour + trip.

 

[47271]

I’ve been getting the classic 17:25 from Inverness quite a bit recently. Can’t remember the last time there was a catering trolley on it. Obviously not a major issue - but perhaps they could advise on the departure boards so that people could buy a bottle of water or whatever for what can be a 3 hour + trip.

I don't think that's anything to do with the HSTs, I'm finding catering on 170 operated services quite patchy at the moment as well.

 

[CJSwan]

Warning this is a much longer post than I intended. Some of the main problems affecting catering just now:

1. Shortage of staff: a great number of their staff in the last year have left for other jobs (conductors, dispatch, train presentation etc) and not been replaced as quickly as they have left.

2. On some of the HSTs, the cupboards where the trollies are stored have broken locks, therefore all the stock (or in some cases the entire trolley) has been removed.

3. If a steward is to work from Aberdeen to Edinburgh and back on a diagram booked for an HST, they in theory will use the trolley on that HST. However, if the return working is replaced with a 158 or 170, then they will take a trolley from Edinburgh to Aberdeen. This can happen a few times each day, so the number of of trollies that end up at other depots and not returning to their Home Depots, has at times resulted in some depots not having enough trollies to cover services that should be HSTs but have been replaced with multiple units. Or indeed, enough trollies to cover services that are booked 170s (there have been times a steward has had to travel ‘pass’ because there was no trolley available for them to use!)

Also, due to extra height of a MK3 carriages compared to that on a unit, the hospitality staff are not allowed to take trollies on and off trains when fully load. Yesterday I witnessed a Glasgow based steward on platform 1 at Perth having to walk away with her trolley, because the train she intended on boarding with her trolley was an HST instead of a 170. So at times of disruption there is less flexibility for the stewards to hope on and off trains with the trollies. There have been occasions when numerous trollies have been left at the likes of Perth overnight, because the last train in service was an HST and the stewards were returning as passengers without their trollies. Whereas if it had been a 170, or even 158, they could have brought at least a couple of the trollies back to their home depot.

Apologies for the rather long winded reply, but I hope it gives some insight as to what’s going on with hospitality at the moment. I do agree that more advanced warning should be given. Each hospitality knows at the beginning of each day (discounting disruption of course) what train will be covered and they could easily contact Dunfermline CCTV/Customer Services who can put that information on departure boards. I have done it a couple of times when I’ve worked services that have been substituted with a 158 or 170 instead of a HST to warn folks getting on further down the line if there’s no reservations, no catering and/or no first class.

 

[FtoE]

Thank you for your replies, it’s interesting to know what’s going on.
I travel on the HML a lot and I’ve only noticed this on this train, not on the 170s TBH that’s why I wondered if it was an HST issue.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is it Scotrail's responsibility to deliver the trains, at least as far as Edinburgh, or is it Wabtec's?

ROSCO, I think. And they hire the drivers (ROG or whoever)

 

[Highlandspring]

Warning this is a much longer post than I intended. Some of the main problems affecting catering just now:

That’s very interesting. Is it a specific type of trolley used on the HSTs?
.

 

[CJSwan]

That’s very interesting. Is it a specific type of trolley used on the HSTs?
.

Nope, it’s the same type of trolley. Just that the hospitality staff aren’t allowed to take them on and off the HSTs

 

[Highlandspring]

Nope, it’s the same type of trolley. Just that the hospitality staff aren’t allowed to take them on and off the HSTs

How are they loaded? Or do they stay on board and are just restocked there? I had no idea about any of this so it’s interesting to find it out.

 

[CJSwan]

How are they loaded? Or do they stay on board and are just restocked there? I had no idea about any of this so it’s interesting to find it out.

There’s a cupboard in coach D were the trolley is kept. Stock and flasks are taken too and from the train in little shopping trolley type contraptions at the terminal stations by another member of hospitality staff.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding trying to get the refurbished sets from Wabtec to Edinburgh, could a LNER driver do that being as they are familiar with the traction type?

This is of course assuming that LNER have enough drivers and ones who are willing to do a few hours overtime.

 

[najaB]

Regarding trying to get the refurbished sets from Wabtec to Edinburgh, could a LNER driver do that being as they are familiar with the traction type?

Other than the new door interlock system, that is.

 

[chuff chuff]

Other than the new door interlock system, that is.

Which can be isolated.

 

[Cashew]

Regarding trying to get the refurbished sets from Wabtec to Edinburgh, could a LNER driver do that being as they are familiar with the traction type?

This is of course assuming that LNER have enough drivers and ones who are willing to do a few hours overtime.

Or even Cross Country drivers,

 

[najaB]

Other than the new door interlock system, that is.

Oh, naturally. But it's still a difference that they would need to know about.

 

[43096]

Regarding trying to get the refurbished sets from Wabtec to Edinburgh, could a LNER driver do that being as they are familiar with the traction type?

This is of course assuming that LNER have enough drivers and ones who are willing to do a few hours overtime.

LNER are in the middle of training staff on IEPs so won’t have drivers spare to hire out. It’s not their core business in any case and not what they are set up to do.

 

[Highlandspring]

HA23 move north from Doncaster looking likely for Saturday I’m led to believe, barring any last minute hitches....