ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Stoney1979]

Assuming set 3 is complete, albeit not quite delivered, another 13 refurbs working by the end of 2019 would mean the Intercity network would be all HSTs, albeit a mix of classics and refurbs.

Others have said sets 4-10 are currently in Wabtec. Seems unlikely, but perhaps not impossible, to be fully-HSTed-up by the end of 2019?

 

[nat67]

It remains to be seen, but I very much doubt the arrival of the refurbs one by one will correspond with working classics correspondingly being ousted one by one.

More likely, I'd have thought, that the 10 classics will keep going until 16 of the final 26 refurbs are up and running. Only then will the refurbs will start directly replacing the classics.

They'll get a dispensation to run classics after 31/12/19. The paperwork is probably already being done for that.​

The term is 'Derogation' chief

 

[43096]

It remains to be seen, but I very much doubt the arrival of the refurbs one by one will correspond with working classics correspondingly being ousted one by one.

More likely, I'd have thought, that the 10 classics will keep going until 16 of the final 26 refurbs are up and running. Only then will the refurbs will start directly replacing the classics.​

​

That is a very unlikely scenario, in that the 10 classics have vehicles in them that are part of the eventual refurb fleet. If they deploy 16 refurbs before stopping the classics then there will be a break between sets 16 and 17.

 

[43096]

The term is 'Derogation' chief

No it isn’t. Derogation is a permanent non-conformance to the standard (e.g. slight variations in door button position that don’t meet the PRM requirements but cannot easily be modified) whereas a dispensation is a temporary acceptance of a non-conformance.

 

[nat67]

No it isn’t. Derogation is a permanent non-conformance to the standard (e.g. slight variations in door button position that don’t meet the PRM requirements but cannot easily be modified) whereas a dispensation is a temporary acceptance of a non-conformance.

Are right thanks Chief.

 

[Highland37]

For someone who is highly critical of the project at every turn, you seem to be remarkably forgetful of what has been delivered.

Yes I do as there is pretty much zero evidence of what has been delivered. There are two sets for the entire country. They are easy to forget as they are so rare.

 

[Highland37]

Yes I do as there is pretty much zero evidence of what has been delivered. There are two sets for the entire country. They are easy to forget as they are so rare.

PS, I am not critical of the project concept. It's a good idea and the HSTs are much nicer to travel on than the 158 I went to Aberdeen on this week and the 170 back from Edinburgh today.

I am critical of Wabtec's appalling performance though, as it has, is and will continue to affect the quality of train travel in Scotland.

 

[Goldromans]

Does anyone know why the refurb set will take so long to get to Inverness tomorrow? Leaving Doncaster just before 9am and arriving into Inverness at 2am the next day seems an awful long time!

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know why the refurb set will take so long to get to Inverness tomorrow? Leaving Doncaster just before 9am and arriving into Inverness at 2am the next day seems an awful long time!

Because there are other trains using the same tracks.

 

[InOban]

If you examine RTT you will see that it has a four hour break sitting in a loop at Ladybank. See earlier posts. Also has half an hour at Millerhill.

 

[Stoney1979]

That is a very unlikely scenario, in that the 10 classics have vehicles in them that are part of the eventual refurb fleet. If they deploy 16 refurbs before stopping the classics then there will be a break between sets 16 and 17.

Did not know that the classics have vehicles in them that are due to be part of the refub fleet, thanks.

 

[InOban]

Today's delivery seems to be as late as the whole project. Still hasn't set off.

 

[nat67]

Today's delivery seems to be as late as the whole project. Still hasn't set off.

Complete shambles on both parts

 

[FOH]

The train does have about 6 hours of recovery time and could still arrive on time!

 

[InvHst]

Sadly has been cancelled

 

[nat67]

Sadly has been cancelled

What are they playing around at

 

[jingsmonty]

If there's no power, then I doubt it'll move power doors or not. .

Whatever happened to HA10, it required assistance from another HST - doubt that's anything to do with whether it was classic or refurbished. Not sure what happened - sounds a pretty catastrophic (& hopefully rare) fault.

 

[jingsmonty]

The third set is fully formed in Wabtec Works now, with the buckeye couple exposed on the leading power car, so movement is hopefully imminent.

There was a path created for tonight from Doncaster to Inverness, I think - doesn't necessarily mean it'll run though....

 

[jingsmonty]

Don't remember much fuss when 170451 caught fire at Markinch a few weeks back, blocking the line for well over 2 hours.

Exactly. I'll be interested to find out what happened to HA10

 

[jingsmonty]

As someone who commutes between Dundee and Arbroath, I don't know what the situation is closer to the central belt, but this statement has all kinds of eyeroll coming from me.

I got on that packed 158 the other day (and lets not forget a 158 is a rare sight north of Dundee), and had to stand, but then that's the first time I've had to stand on this route in three years, so lets put this ****e in perspective!

I get the refurbished HST most mornings heading north and it's great - I always shake my head now when a 170 turns up instead.

When there's a full fleet of 4 and 5 car refurbished HSTs eventually running it will be fantastic!

As a Driver, I feel exactly the same when a 170 or 158 rolls up instead of an HST!

 

[jingsmonty]

Does anyone know if 1A87 (Glasgow QS - Aberdeen) is running as it's booked HST tonight? Cheers

 

[scotraildriver]

Does anyone know if 1A87 (Glasgow QS - Aberdeen) is running as it's booked HST tonight? Cheers

Well it's showing as correctly formed......

 

[jingsmonty]

Well it's showing as correctly formed......

Happy days! I saw a GQS-ABD train as showing the normal 'formed of 3 coaches instead of 4' line, but wasn't sure if it was 1A87 I was looking at

 

[CC 72100]

What are they playing around at

I take it you've organised refurbishment programmes and stock delivery trains in the past?

 

[scotraildriver]

Happy days! I saw a GQS-ABD train as showing the normal 'formed of 3 coaches instead of 4' line, but wasn't sure if it was 1A87 I was looking at

My train was showing as 3 instead of 4 the other day so I wandered down expecting a 170 and it was an HST with a coach out of use. Cue panic starting it,building up air etc. Lesson learned.

 

[Highlandspring]

Whatever happened to HA10, it required assistance from another HST - doubt that's anything to do with whether it was classic or refurbished. Not sure what happened - sounds a pretty catastrophic (& hopefully rare) fault.

HA10 ran to Dundee Yard under its own power after the fitter attended to the powercars at Arbroath. The assisting set decided it didn’t want to play after the two were coupled so there wasn’t much choice other than to split them again and run seperately.

 

[marks87]

The assisting set decided it didn’t want to play after the two were coupled...

See, I knew they'd forget the detent pin.

 

[Highland37]

I take it you've organised refurbishment programmes and stock delivery trains in the past?

It's almost as if you think this farce isn't worthy of comment and that people should not complain. Imagine the state of the programme if there was less pressure on Wabtec.

Or are you in the "all 26 sets by December 2019" camp? As I said above, this is having a continual affect on the quality of train travel in Scotland and that should never be brushed under the carpet.

What's your take on the huge delays?

 

[jingsmonty]

My train was showing as 3 instead of 4 the other day so I wandered down expecting a 170 and it was an HST with a coach out of use. Cue panic starting it,building up air etc. Lesson learned.

Aye, I'm sure that's going to happen to me at some point too... Think I was looking at the wrong train, by the way - an HST, as booked .

 

[jingsmonty]

There was a path created for tonight from Doncaster to Inverness, I think - doesn't necessarily mean it'll run though....

It isn't running tonight, apparently