Scotrail franchise future?

[tbtc]

wel whoever gets it has got a lot of fun with many services on the network at or over capacitty and major jobs like the TOCs part of Edinburgh to Glasgow electriffication to deliver

I think that you could say the same of many franchises "let" in the next few years (given that CP5 will see electrification in many parts of the UK and that many TOCs see crowding on services).

In a way the Scottish franchise could be attractive to companies with little rail experience who are used to just managing projects like Serco, since it looks like all you'd need to do is follow Holyrood's instructions and maintain a standard of service (without much need for entrepreneurial rail skills). It might be too "boring" for Stagecoach!

 

[WatcherZero]

Actually, the idea was to find out if people wanted alternative services. For example, East Coast said that if they didn't have to serve Inverness and Aberdeen, they could provide a half-hourly service between Edinburgh and Newcastle. This might have helped meet local desires for new stations at Reston and East Linton and improved frequency at Dunbar. Also, Aberdeen-Newcastle was identified as an important market and a dedicated service for that route was suggested.

In any case, I don't think all WC/EC/XC trains still having to terminate at Glasgow Central or Edinburgh Waverley - in the central belt, where the majority of Scots live - amounts to a very successful racist policy.

That was already the quo, what the Scottish Ministers wanted was no English franchised Tocs to cross the border (as they said it abstracted revenue that could stay in Scotland), all cross border services would be provided by Scotrail. Funnily enough the general public didnt want to have to catch two trains to get from Glasgow or Edinburgh to London instead of the existing direct service.

 

[tbtc]

That was already the quo, what the Scottish Ministers wanted was no English franchised Tocs to cross the border (as they said it abstracted revenue that could stay in Scotland), all cross border services would be provided by Scotrail. Funnily enough the general public didnt want to have to catch two trains to get from Glasgow or Edinburgh to London instead of the existing direct service.

There's a big difference between "no daytime ECML/WCML services should go north of Edinburgh/ Glasgow" (which makes some sense on operational levels - such as the current lack of electrification, the complication of running 500 mile London services on single track bottle necks, the problem co-ordinating longer distance services on the Aberdeen line with the ScotRail ones etc) and "no English services shall cross the border" which would be so stupid it'd make the WAG Express look like a non-political idea.

 

[transmanche]

In a way the Scottish franchise could be attractive to companies with little rail experience who are used to just managing projects like Serco, since it looks like all you'd need to do is follow Holyrood's instructions and maintain a standard of service (without much need for entrepreneurial rail skills).

Whilst I agree with your sentiment; surely you can't describe Serco as having 'little rail experience'; with Northern, Merseyrail (and DLR).

 

[tbtc]

Whilst I agree with your sentiment; surely you can't describe Serco as having 'little rail experience'; with Northern, Merseyrail (and DLR).

True - I should have said something like "a company without much of a transport history", as Serco were new to running TOCs a few years ago.

I think that they've shown that you don't necessarily need much "rail" experience, just the ability to manage people/ follow instructions/ keep costs down.

Look out for Capita and Atos bidding for the next round of franchises

 

[overthewater]

Could the Scottish government get control of the franchise since the issues over the west coast line have appeared? Which in turn could let nationalization back in?

 

[ainsworth74]

Could the Scottish government get control of the franchise since the issues over the west coast line have appeared?

I thought they already did? I'm fairly sure the Scotrail franchise the responsibility of Transport Scotland...

 

[313103]

I think it should be given to Virgin, in fact after reading some of the comments regarding the saviour of the railway (sic) I think the big bearded one should get all the new franchises based on Virgins ability to make travelling by train a pleasure...........

I actually that we should have a total free market rather then the folly of one company running to one location or dominating one area. Now that is total free open market. But then that wouldn't be right either would it.

There is a overused phrase i hear a lot from Rail Enthusiasts that perfectly somes up the railways in Britain in 2012 and that word is F A R C E !

 

[Zoe]

I thought they already did? I'm fairly sure the Scotrail franchise the responsibility of Transport Scotland...

The franchising is but the overall structure of the railways dictated by the Railways Act 1993 still applies and so the Scottish Government as an emanation of the crown can't hold the franchise. There was an attempt to amend what become the Scotland Act to give the Scottish government the option to not have to put the franchise out to tender but this was rejected.

 

[ainsworth74]

The franchising is but the overall structure of the railways dictated by the Railways Act 1993 still applies and so the Scottish Government as an emanation of the crown can't hold the franchise.

I am aware of that, I should have deleted the reference to Nationalisation in my quote as it was the first sentence I was addressing not the second.

 

[michael769]

According to today's Scottish edition of Metro the Scottish Transport minister is saying that it would be possible for a public sector non-profit organisation to submit a bid for the franchise.

 

[tbtc]

According to today's Scottish edition of Metro the Scottish Transport minister is saying that it would be possible for a public sector non-profit organisation to submit a bid for the franchise.

Possible.

But like the argument about the "Welsh" franchise, there isn't any not-for-profit organisatino out there capable of bidding.

Sounds nice, of course, but I can't see it happening.

 

[68000]

Network Rail is capable

 

[michael769]

Surely one could be set up? The DfT managed it with DoR, admittedly under duress.

We must remember that Holyrood has an agenda here....

 

[HH]

Network Rail is capable

You're kidding. You don't know NWR if you think that.

 

[kylemore]

According to today's Scottish edition of Metro the Scottish Transport minister is saying that it would be possible for a public sector non-profit organisation to submit a bid for the franchise.

That's already the case with Ferry services in the west Highlands and Islands. However the Govt have just awarded Calmac (the state owned non-profit outfit) a non-tendered 3 year contract to continue operating services.

This is being done because Ministers have stopped the tendering process because they knew that private interests - such as Serco (who recently won the tender to operate the Orkney and Shetland services) would be likely to win. This would cause a political storm in the SNP heartland in the run-up to the referendum.

SNP ministers thought they could do a "fly" one and just kick the whole process 3 years away by awarding Calmac a non-tendered 3 year contract. however they may have come unstuck as theres every chance that could be kicked out by the EU!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Network Rail is capable

Network Rail is not in the public sector, and has no brief to be a franchise TOC (ie it could not borrow money to fund it).

 

[tbtc]

Surely one could be set up? The DfT managed it with DoR, admittedly under duress.

We must remember that Holyrood has an agenda here....

There's always an agenda with Eck...

But, like in Wales, whilst it's nice to talk about some "not for profit" company running the local TOC (and therefore not seen to be profiting from running trains), there are no companies capable.

So any not for profit bidder would have to be a political creation - jobs for the boys. Otherwise it seems disingenuous to pretend that there's a chance of a not-for-profit company running the TOC.

 

[lancastrian]

Well from the looks of it First are most likely going to hold on to the Scotrail franchise, but do you think there might be a possibility that they could lose the franchise in 2014 ?

I just wonder if it is the DFT plan that no incumbent of a franchise should be allowed To continue to hold it? Apart from Stagecoach holing on to South Western Trains & Island Line and Chiltern actually getting a decent length franchise in 1998 (I think) has any other retained their franchise?

 

[tbtc]

I just wonder if it is the DFT plan that no incumbent of a franchise should be allowed To continue to hold it? Apart from Stagecoach holing on to South Western Trains & Island Line and Chiltern actually getting a decent length franchise in 1998 (I think) has any other retained their franchise?

Other companies have retained franchises - even allowing for remapping.

First have run the Great Western/ Greater Western lines for a long time, Virgin and GNER retained their WCML/ ECML franchises...