Scotrail franchise award 2015

[Mingulay]

SQUIRE auditors are employed by and accountable to Transport Scotland. They most certainly are auditing ‘your’ trains regularly.

Well I would hate to see what their houses are like! Probably the ones with the burst settee in the front garden.

They clearly don't know what a clean seat looks like !

 

[YorkshireBear]

As it happens I do

Mostly folks respond in a positive way or say nothing and pick up

One time a guy did jump me and there was a tusstle

Cant let one d@ck head intimidate you. He just embarrassed himself

The chance of that one tussle however is enough to put most people off ever intervening. I regularly clear tables when I get on a train and put the stuff in the bin 1 yard away.

 

[scotraildriver]

Problem is guards won't intervene for that reason. They are not paid to get into tussles. Most have tried and given the vile responses they often get, it's not worth it.

 

[snookertam]

You go on to make some interesting points, but I feel I'd have to defend Abellio here - they did run the Northern franchise for a dozen years (a fleet of hundreds of trains, serving over five hundred stations - from the bleak rural stations like Dent to the commuter lines into cities like Manchester/ Leeds).

Northern is probably the closest TOC to ScotRail that we have in terms of complexity/ geographical area/ diverse markets (Northern is actually bigger than ScotRail in terms of fleet size and stations served, with additional complications caused by significantly more interaction with other TOCs and the UNharmonized conditions that staff were on, having come from First North Western/ Arriva Trains Northern).

There are things to criticise Abellio for, sure, but if they can run Northern for over a decade then I don't think it's fair to say that they'd have no appreciation of managing a diverse TOC.

That's a fair point and excuse my ignorance, I didn't actually realise they had run Northern in the past - I'd thought it was Serco.

 

[snookertam]

They're making much bigger changes to the fleets in the 'East of England' (where they are also behind). It's easy to be wise after the event, but the fleet changes aren't really that big.

Equally, TS did not like the 170s being used on longer distance routes - they wanted "InterCity" trains. Are the delays to the ScotRail fleets down to Abellio?


Nonsense. The Squire regime is still in operation, so they are fined if the trains aren't clean.

Not saying Abellio are doing a great job, but some of the complaints are just a wee bit ridiculous.

I agree with you in that TS shoulder blame here as they selected the preferred bidder based on what they wanted. Nor are the delays in receiving the stock entirely their fault, but I'm finding it difficult to believe that they've just been beset with bad luck in these matters. From what I've heard about management's decision making generally, it's not difficult to conclude that much of this mess is of their own making.

ScotRail staff were predicting this would be a disaster back in 2014 when the preferred bidder was announced.

 

[HH]

ScotRail staff were predicting this would be a disaster back in 2014 when the preferred bidder was announced.

Maybe the staff are part of the problem. They also forecast a disaster when First were appointed IIRC.

 

[Mingulay]

Problem is guards won't intervene for that reason. They are not paid to get into tussles. Most have tried and given the vile responses they often get, it's not worth it.

Totally agree. I'm not advocating vigilante action. Staff should not feel the need nor be subjected to aggression. But as individuals. If you feel so inclined. Don't let loutish behaviour go unchallenged. If we do as a society. We are finished! I feel sufficiently confident in my ability to judge the situation and the limitations of my own physical ability v another to make that call.

 

[mde]

I think what is becoming apparent is that Abellio have bitten off way more than they can chew in Scotland. A Dutch based rail firm whose only other franchise is in the East of England. With each passing month it is becoming clearer that they are out of their depth and have no appreciation of the diversity of the ScotRail franchise.

Would that be the same Abellio who were joint partners in the last Northern franchise (with Serco), are current joint venture partners in Merseyrail (again, with Serco), and, are majority partners in West Midlands Trains (with JR East and Mitsui)?

They do more than just ScotRail and Greater Anglia. They also run rail services in parts of Germany.

It's fine to complain, but, it's perhaps a little misleading to downplay their experience - many things aren't working out quite as planned is perhaps a reasonable summary. It's not unfixable.

 

[Deltic1961]

Gemini Rail depot in Glasgow to close with loss of 120 jobs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47485500

Cones as a surprise given how many "train faults" Scotrail have every single day.

 

[Highlandspring]

Comes as a surprise given how many "train faults" Scotrail have every single day.

That’s like saying comes as a surprise given the price of cheese today.

 

[adrock1976]

There are no public bins at the Waverley due to the station’s security category. There are many mobile cleaners; you can leave your rubbidh for them or, if you can find one, hand it to them.

The security category to me is a red herring regarding bins at Waverley.

If the security category is true, how does that explain that there are bins that have transparent bags on London Underground?

 

[Highlandspring]

The security category to me is a red herring regarding bins at Waverley.

If the security category is true, how does that explain that there are bins that have transparent bags on London Underground?

Perhaps the Network Rail and LUL risk assessments and security procedures, as guided and overseen by TRANSEC, take account of the differences between specific locations and types of threats they face? I’m quite sure the local management at the Waverley didn’t just say “Wouldn’t it be hilarious if we didn’t bother having bins at all but employed an army of minimum wage cleaners instead and blamed it all on vague security concerns?”

In any case the subject of bins at NR versus LUL managed stations is pretty off topic for this thread so we’d better not persue it here.

 

[gsnedders]

It does, but they had to suspend that while they were running a mixture of 170s, 380s and then 365s ahead of the 385s arriving in quantity. But not until they tried tarting up a few seats on a 380 or two.

At what point did they get permission from Transport Scotland for a variation from the contract to suspend first class service on E–G? When did they first ask for permission? It may well have been only after tarting up a few seats on the 380s that they got permission to drop first class.

I think the main issue is the promise of two major fleet introductions at the same time within the old 'network'. Even if both were delivered on time and without a hitch, it's still logistically a big task. To then be caught out with delays to both projects whilst units were going off franchise has left them treading water. It's almost as if their project managers live in a perfect world where everything goes to plan - or perhaps their senior management pressure the project teams into unrealistic delivery timetables.

How much was this planned by Abellio, though? The franchise agreement required the EGIP stock to be introduced throughout 2017 (first trains in service for Dec 2016 timetable, all by Dec 2017), but delays in the electrification meant that it wasn't approved till late 2017; the inter-city service stock was meant to be compliant with the ITT specification by March 2019, essentially giving them 2018 to do all that if they didn't want to do both at the same time.

Certainly Abellio will have been expecting to get all the 385s in service by December 2017, and the first of the HSTs went off-lease from GWR in September 2017, so it seems likely that they weren't expecting to be doing two at the same time.

 

[Carlisle]

A separate point but I noticed that Abellio cleaners are very poorly paid on the Greater Anglia franchise compared to the ones at Scotrail - .

That’ll likley be due to train cleaning in the region now operated by Greater Anglia being outsourced years ago, whereas a different political regime in Scotland probably specified a preference for these functions to remain in house

 

[mde]

Gemini Rail depot in Glasgow to close with loss of 120 jobs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-47485500

Cones as a surprise given how many "train faults" Scotrail have every single day.

Why is it a surprise? Gemini (fka Knorr-Bremse Rail Services, fka RailCare) don't carry out the day-to-day maintenance of any fleet, it's not their role. They carry out heavy overhauls and refurbishments; recent examples being the Class 156 works for ScotRail and Northern.

There's quite a bit of misinformation going round about what this site actually does; and, mixed messages about its future - the local MP for example is suggesting it be nationalised, which appears to be a non starter (it would likely be state aid, which carries a myriad of complexities), or, that SR use the site for light maintenance duties. Is there any call for that?

Either way, the site, as it stands, has nothing to do with day-to-day maintenance of the ScotRail fleet; that lies with ScotRail's own depot teams.

 

[68000]

We know why there are various groups / parties spreading misinformation about Gemini

 

[whhistle]

There are no public bins at the Waverley due to the station’s security category. There are many mobile cleaners; you can leave your rubbidh for them or, if you can find one, hand it to them.

Which then feeds into this whole "I don't need to bother to use a bin" thing.

 

[Mingulay]

Which then feeds into this whole "I don't need to bother to use a bin" thing.

It does but still no excuse.

Which prompts me to remember an amusing but bewildering sight I witnessed in Waverley station a few weeks ago. A scotrail or possibly network rail woman standing guard over a discarded banana skin on her radio calling for help to get it lifted! I was tempted to pick it up myself and pop it in the bin of Costa a few feet away but I thought I would spare her the embarrassment of her inaction! I assuming not her pay grade but common sense and all that ...

 

[ainsworth74]

That's a fair point and excuse my ignorance, I didn't actually realise they had run Northern in the past - I'd thought it was Serco.

It was a 50/50 split between the pair of them. Plus don't forget that Abellio's parent is Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch Railways) a firm which most certainly has plenty of exerpience of running a complicated network!

 

[47271]

Banana skins eh, I think that Abellio's come across a few of those in Scotland since 2015.

 

[Mingulay]

Banana skins eh, I think that Abellio's come across a few of those in Scotland since 2015.

Aye your not wrong. Fair few cancellations I have had 3 days out of 4 . I hope we will soon have all this transition behind us. Seems endless. Depressed to read today suggestion of union strike action! Whilst I rate train crews. Come on guys. Put the passengers first please! Sort it out without a strike.

 

[scotraildriver]

Aye your not wrong. Fair few cancellations I have had 3 days out of 4 . I hope we will soon have all this transition behind us. Seems endless. Depressed to read today suggestion of union strike action! Whilst I rate train crews. Come on guys. Put the passengers first please! Sort it out without a strike.

I wouldn't read too much into that. Its RMT bluster because drivers have had a change to overtime payments and Alastiar Dalton at the Scotsman revelling in yet another snippet to bash Scotrail with. The RMT have a deal until April and discussions will take place. The last thing Abellio want is industrial unrest.

 

[Mingulay]

I wouldn't read too much into that. Its RMT bluster because drivers have had a change to overtime payments and Alastiar Dalton at the Scotsman revelling in yet another snippet to bash Scotrail with. The RMT have a deal until April and discussions will take place. The last thing Abellio want is industrial unrest.

Thanks , good to hear . Last thing any of us needs is industrial action . Suspect the Union will have the upper hand in those talks as Abellio are on the ropes from every corner and deservedly so !

 

[DuncanS]

Carnage across the central belt right now. nothing for 2 hours to Edinburgh from Stirling , trains cancelled to Glasgow and Dunblane, earlier train to Aberdeen also gone and 2 carriage Gqs to Dundee.

 

[Deltic1961]

It's been interesting watching their Twitter feed today, that's for sure!

Yet more broken down trains causing carnage. Classic HST set at Waverley is the latest one.

Seriously, either their leased rolling stock is crap or the maintenance, or both.

Surely maintaining the fleet so they don't have multiple breakdowns every day would be cheaper than the knock on costs of the problems it creates?

 

[Mingulay]

It's been interesting watching their Twitter feed today, that's for sure!

Yet more broken down trains causing carnage. Classic HST set at Waverley is the latest one.

Seriously, either their leased rolling stock is crap or the maintenance, or both.

Surely maintaining the fleet so they don't have multiple breakdowns every day would be cheaper than the knock on costs of the problems it creates?

It’s truly remarkable. In any other industry the whole of Scotrail management would have been fired long ago. I wonder if we are wrong to blame the handful of Abellio team for everything in isolation . Or is it the middle management guys who have been in the job for 20 years in Scotrail and network rail that perhaps are just seeing out the job. No real desire to do things better are a brake on delivering a railway fit for passengers . So the Dutch masters are playing with a life expired deck of cards. No idea. I have huge admiration for the on train staff but the management seems incapable of getting anything right! It seems more get trough today. Worry about tomorrow , tomorrow!

 

[alangla]

Carnage across the central belt right now. nothing for 2 hours to Edinburgh from Stirling , trains cancelled to Glasgow and Dunblane, earlier train to Aberdeen also gone and 2 carriage Gqs to Dundee.

Saw this earlier, 3 out of 4 (I think) consecutive Dunblane to Edinburgh services cancelled due to no crew, the one still running was then cancelled due to a train fault on the outbound, though the return is showing as TG. Grim reading- http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...19/03/13/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Deltic1961]

They've posted on Twitter to expect cancellations tomorrow due to staffing issues so it's gonna be a bad one already. Add a few signal faults and breakdowns and.....

Let's be honest, Scotland's railway just can't be relied on.

 

[alangla]

They've posted on Twitter to expect cancellations tomorrow due to staffing issues so it's gonna be a bad one already. Add a few signal faults and breakdowns and.....

Let's be honest, Scotland's railway just can't be relied on.

40 in for tomorrow already. In saying that I’ve personally not had a delay repay since the start of last month having had loads in January. SPT land has been boringly reliable. Wires down at Partick tomorrow now I’ve cursed it?

 

[Wst71Pa2]

It’s truly remarkable. In any other industry the whole of Scotrail management would have been fired long ago!

Bingo!

And going back to recent comments on the Franchise commitment, TS wanted hauled stock and the HST solution was someone's wet dream. Really easy to be one villian behind the times

That's before anyone considers? Just how well are the 158's going to be in 5yrs time? Cos they're a state just now and no replacement anytime soon