Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Fishplate84]

But the contractors only deliver what the Government asks for, and the Government only asks for what it thinks the people want.

I'd be amazed if any tender came out that didn't focus on the tinsel (wifi, more services, more trains, scenic trains, better marketing, new ticketing etc etc) and asked for companies to bid to spend as much, or more to deliver the same or less with much better reliability and resiliency.
IF they asked for that, they might get it.

Of the ferry operators, Calmac has the chronic reliability issues and didn't they recently have a vessel run out of control and smash into a marina for no apparent reason? We'll see a formal marine investigation report on that some day maybe. I hope their bid was a bit less tinsel and a bit more boring reliability and focus on maintenance and upkeep. All I've seen is marketing and ticketing though, so unlikely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

CalMac only retained the western Isles contract because of effective union and press lobbying. Serco were a dead cert for it as they would have offered the lowest cost bid like they did for the North link services and the Caledonian Sleepers.

TS.

If thats the case, its borderline corruption. Whatever anyone thinks of the companies bidding, any tendering exercise relies on having clear rules and absolute confidence in the probity of the process. The unions and press should have their views, but the participants should expect that outcome is the result of fair competition and objective evaluation.
Without this, why would any company want to be involved when the outcome can be politically swayed by external pressures? It's not the sort of Government and governance a Scotland, independent or not, wants to get a reputation for if it wants to attract inward investment.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Your thesis is all very laudable and in time we may move towards a more progressive and egilatarian society.

However as I'm sure you are aware the vast majority of the Governments income comes from three sources -

Income Tax 170 Billion 2015/16 forecast

National Insurance 115 Billion 2015/16 forecast

Value Added Tax 133 Billion 2015/16 forecast

If we really want to make things better for the poor, in the short term at least, their fellow citizens are going to have to pay higher taxes and possibly suffer a reduction in their standard of living.

My contention to you is that most people are not prepared to do this. If they were it could be could be sorted out very quickly.

Everyone sympathises with the poor but thinks that someone else should foot the bill to improve their lot.

Lets cut the bull**** and be honest about it

You've fallen into exactly the trap that I was describing. Just because income tax and income-tax-by-another-name constitute the majority of our government revenue doesn't mean that this is actually a good or desirable thing. It is possible to shift the burden onto the more effective things in such a way that makes it inherently more progressive, well before you start thinking about bandings. For instance, if we shifted the burden from income tax to council tax, people's take-home pay would increase but they would then be paying out more in their council tax bills. Properly poor people by and large don't tend to live in nice houses where they'll have to pay out more in council tax. By 'properly poor' I make the distinction between those who are temporarily dispossessed and those who actually have nothing, as there is a world of difference between the two, far larger than the relative incomes would suggest. A middle class information worker being unemployed for a few months doesn't make them equivalent to someone who's known nothing but deprivation and poverty and has no realistic way out.

The alpha and omega of government revenue is land value taxation due to its inherent perfection. It's an even more optimal version of a property tax, as it does actively forces development rather than discouraging it, while being inherently progressive as only landowners would pay it. Poor people are not landowners, they are renters, and LVT captures the undeserved land rent which currently goes only to the rich people in society. LVT alone would do more for the advancement of society than almost any other measure, even a UBI, although the two are normally coupled together.

The public transport system in Scotland is on a race to the bottom IMO.

Northlink:
let in 29012 to the lowest bidder who knew little about rural lifeline ferry services and a lot about cost cutting and fancy marketing. The result is a service which is less reliable than it used to be, charging more for onboard services, spending less on staff and ship overhauls and spending a lot on attracting vast numbers of tourists who in high season make it harder for locals to get vehicle and cabbin space and all yar round have contributed to worse service. The other bids were far stronger but more expensive.

It was let to the bidder who had the best score, as set out in the tender. The rules were very clear ahead of time for both the bidders and the Scottish Government. If the rules weren't followed to a tee then there would be legal action.

Sleapers:
repeat as above, tourists take priority and costs have risen sharply.

Do you even know or care about what FirstGroup and Arriva were offering? The only bid worth looking at was Serco, since they were not only cheaper but were offering brand new rolling stock. Transport Scotland could only pick between the companies which put in qualifying bids. In future, with their powers to have a public sector bidder, they'll be able to provide a minimum floor for quality but if the private sector bidders are better, they still have to award it to the private sector company. That's the law.

Calmac:
only kept the western isles runs IMO as the staff their had seen the mess and industrial breakdowns at Northlink and came out in sympathy, taking the public with them in a bid to avoid sercoisation.

They won the contract because their bid was better than Serco's. If Serco had seen evidence of their bid being rejected for political reasons, then for their very expensive lawyers it would be open season on Transport Scotland. This doesn't fit your world view but that doesn't matter, because it's truth.

That decision was a good one in the fact it gave a business that was pretty much dead and buried a new future. It also gave the First Minister another chance to look good and say "hey, look at us, we saved another Scottish business". I wholly applaud their efforts to keep work in Scotland, but only if it is cost effective. I very much doubt Fergusons bid was the most cost effective but it was a good way to make the government look good. This I imagine would have been the case whoever was in power, so it's not another SNPBAD comment.

CalMac only retained the western Isles contract because of effective union and press lobbying. Serco were a dead cert for it as they would have offered the lowest cost bid like they did for the North link services and the Caledonian Sleepers.

If thats the case, its borderline corruption. Whatever anyone thinks of the companies bidding, any tendering exercise relies on having clear rules and absolute confidence in the probity of the process. The unions and press should have their views, but the participants should expect that outcome is the result of fair competition and objective evaluation.
Without this, why would any company want to be involved when the outcome can be politically swayed by external pressures? It's not the sort of Government and governance a Scotland, independent or not, wants to get a reputation for if it wants to attract inward investment.

If there were any hint of corruption, then there would be legal action. There has been no legal action. There would be a major reward for a losing bidder to win said legal action, which would be easy when there was evidence of corruption. Ergo, there has been no corruption.

 

[HH]

If there were any hint of corruption, then there would be legal action. There has been no legal action. There would be a major reward for a losing bidder to win said legal action, which would be easy when there was evidence of corruption. Ergo, there has been no corruption.

How is life there on Naive Island?

 

[Fishplate84]

They won the contract because their bid was better than Serco's.

Was it? Nobody actually knows. Didn't Serco have their bid returned unopened on a technicality so Scottish Government had only one option to give it to Calmac?

Serco may have written a much better bid and Calmac an appalling and expensive one by comparison but Scottish Government gave themselves no ability to make that judgement. Why they put themselves in that position when there was only a choice from two in the first place seems very short sighted to me.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

It's because the media (particularly South of the border) portrays the Scottish Parliament as a playground, and thinks that Nicola Sturgeon spends her days "plotting" the next twenty referenda.



The reality is that the Scottish Parliament has probably achieved more than Westminster in the past year. What's Theresa May done since becoming PM? I'm struggling to think of anything to be honest.

Secured the Snoopers Charter. She's been working on that for five years. All your online activity is now logged for a minimum of 12 months and freely accessible to the government without the need for a warrant.

 

[amcluesent]

One thing is 100% certain, on the People's Railway there must and will be no 1st class comforts and privileges for toffs.

For everyone to be equal in Scotland, progressive socialism demands one class of carriage!

 

[Butts]

One thing is 100% certain, on the People's Railway there must and will be no 1st class comforts and privileges for toffs.

For everyone to be equal in Scotland, progressive socialism demands one class of carriage!

Indeed 1st Class with free Scotch

 

[XC90]

SNP only want to be popular. Humza is out of his depth.

89 trains out of 100 run fine, but the witch hunt we are witnessing is typical of Scottish politics. The Scottish parliament should now be dissolved. It's a cesspit of anti-British hatred and has brought us a divided population which threatens to split the UK at any cost.

Scotrail are one of the best TOCs in Britain and should be left to get on with improving the industry. Infrastructure is a major problem, network rail's remit!
Scrap the fictional alliance. It was a rubbish idea and the only people who believe in it are the media and those at the top, oh and the MSPs when it suits them. If the contract is cancelled, network rail will just revert back to post April 2015. Will the infrastructure miraculously improve?

Everyone needs to back off and let Abellio get the job done!

 

[Highland37]

SNP only want to be popular. Humza is out of his depth.

89 trains out of 100 run fine, but the witch hunt we are witnessing is typical of Scottish politics. The Scottish parliament should now be dissolved. It's a cesspit of anti-British hatred and has brought us a divided population which threatens to split the UK at any cost.

Would you describe yourself as well informed and reasonable?

 

[amcluesent]

Abellio is understandably getting hacked-off at the usual SNP grand-standing and mendacity, with Charlotte Twyning, director of policy, strategy and communications for Abellio UK putting the monkey firmly onto Humza's back.

“It should be recognised that half of the rail industry is already nationalised in the form of Network Rail and any operator that runs the ScotRail franchise - public or private - does so to a tightly specified Scottish government contract, which means that ministers set fares and essentially determine how many seats are available and therefore how much overcrowding exists across the network,”

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...s-but-apportions-blame-to-government-contract

 

[Carntyne]

Quite right. TS have dodged way too much flack considering the latest daft reporting.

 

[adrock1976]

SNP only want to be popular. Humza is out of his depth.

89 trains out of 100 run fine, but the witch hunt we are witnessing is typical of Scottish politics. The Scottish parliament should now be dissolved. It's a cesspit of anti-British hatred and has brought us a divided population which threatens to split the UK at any cost.

Scotrail are one of the best TOCs in Britain and should be left to get on with improving the industry. Infrastructure is a major problem, network rail's remit!
Scrap the fictional alliance. It was a rubbish idea and the only people who believe in it are the media and those at the top, oh and the MSPs when it suits them. If the contract is cancelled, network rail will just revert back to post April 2015. Will the infrastructure miraculously improve?

Everyone needs to back off and let Abellio get the job done!

To pick up on a couple of points:

The Scottish Parliament is not anti-British hatred at all. It was reconvened back in 1999 when there was a referendum to devolve powers from Westminster to Scotland and Wales. The devolved legislatures of the Scottish Parliament and the Senadd in Wales use a proportional representation system in elections, as do the local councils in Scotland.

Looking at representation in Scotland as a whole, it could be said that there is a democratic deficit, in that there are 56 out of 59 SNP MPs at Westminster, but Westminster is dominated by Conservatives perhaps one of the reasons being the first past the post voting system that is used there. Furthermore, Scotland, alongside with Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the European Union, but England and Wales voted to leave. Overall, the June 2016 referendum was not clear cut, as there was only around 1 million votes that made a very narrow difference. Both of the above paragraphs I fell would be better expanded upon in the existing EU referendum thread in the General Discussion section of the forum.

 

[clc]

.

The alpha and omega of government revenue is land value taxation due to its inherent perfection. It's an even more optimal version of a property tax, as it does actively forces development rather than discouraging it, while being inherently progressive as only landowners would pay it. Poor people are not landowners, they are renters, and LVT captures the undeserved land rent which currently goes only to the rich people in society. LVT alone would do more for the advancement of society than almost any other measure, even a UBI, although the two are normally coupled together.
.

LVT is something I'd support but it would take a large amount of political courage to implement. With Green Party support the SNP could bring it forward but it's probably too radical for them.

 

[Highland37]

To pick up on a couple of points:

The Scottish Parliament is not anti-British hatred at all. It was reconvened back in 1999 when there was a referendum to devolve powers from Westminster to Scotland and Wales. The devolved legislatures of the Scottish Parliament and the Senadd in Wales use a proportional representation system in elections, as do the local councils in Scotland.

Looking at representation in Scotland as a whole, it could be said that there is a democratic deficit, in that there are 56 out of 59 SNP MPs at Westminster, but Westminster is dominated by Conservatives perhaps one of the reasons being the first past the post voting system that is used there. Furthermore, Scotland, alongside with Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the European Union, but England and Wales voted to leave. Overall, the June 2016 referendum was not clear cut, as there was only around 1 million votes that made a very narrow difference. Both of the above paragraphs I fell would be better expanded upon in the existing EU referendum thread in the General Discussion section of the forum.

Well said. All of the SNPbad posts on here follow the standard pattern:

* Make a very general and bald statement such as "obsessed", neverendum, what have they ever done, anti-(insert chosen grievance here).
* dismiss any counter argument

The entire mindset is only safe in the absence of reality.

 

[adrock1976]

I forgot to add that although I have never voted for the SNP, I do recognise the bigger picture overall.

Also in regards to the EU referendum, as it is a major change to the governance of the UK and the relationship with mainland Europe at the very least, I feel that there should have been a minimum of 75% to vote to leave the EU, so as it would have been more clear cut in that aspect.

I'll continue this in the General Discussion section.

 

[XC90]

Would you describe yourself as well informed and reasonable?

More than you could ever imagine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Adrock1976, as a British citizen living in Scotland that is how I feel about Holyrood. The SNP just want to be popular. The emergency statement by Humza Yousaf will be interesting. Who do you think it will appeal to?

The masses who jumped for joy when first lost the franchise must be scratching their heads in confusion now. Careful what you wish for.

If the franchise is taken off Abellio I will be keen to see all the extra carriages appear to form 6 car trains across central Scotland, all signals and points working as designed, no late running, cheaper fares, no bridge strikes, no broken down trains, no overhead line problems, no severe weather, no unwell members of staff, unions getting all their demands met 1st time, no trespassers or any crime on the railway.

It's going to be great - come on Humza you can do it!

 

[Sadsmileyface]

Quite right. TS have dodged way too much flack considering the latest daft reporting.

God, the things I would share with the world...

 

[380101]

More than you could ever imagine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Adrock1976, as a British citizen living in Scotland that is how I feel about Holyrood. The SNP just want to be popular. The emergency statement by Humza Yousaf will be interesting. Who do you think it will appeal to?

The masses who jumped for joy when first lost the franchise must be scratching their heads in confusion now. Careful what you wish for.

If the franchise is taken off Abellio I will be keen to see all the extra carriages appear to form 6 car trains across central Scotland, all signals and points working as designed, no late running, cheaper fares, no bridge strikes, no broken down trains, no overhead line problems, no severe weather, no unwell members of staff, unions getting all their demands met 1st time, no trespassers or any crime on the railway.

It's going to be great - come on Humza you can do it!

This is the best post regarding the current issues so far.

The papers, SNP, Scottish Labour and the rail unions seem to be of the belief that removing the franchise from Abellio and take it in house will magically solve all the current minor problems. It won't. All that would happen if it was taken under TS is that the alleged 1million in profit generated every week would go to government coffers instead of a private company. The same trains, infrastructure and staff apart from the MD would all be as it is now.

Unfortunately Humza Yousaf has allowed himself to be backed into a corner by the opposition parties and the media.

 

[68000]

Unfortunately Humza Yousaf has allowed himself to be backed into a corner by the opposition parties and the media.

He most certainly has but that is what happens when almost every newspaper, TV station and opposition parties are after him as an SNP politician and nothing to do with rail travel or ScotRail or passengers. The whole thing is manufactured for politics and they think playing the railway card will get an SNP scalp

 

[Highland37]

Yes I fear that you (68000) are right. He doesn't give them impression of being fully in control but that's the whole point - the operator is fully in control. That said, his style of answering is not substantial. He often seems to know as much about the railway as the posters on here know about Scottish politics.

Let's hope things get sorted out and soon. The biggest disgrace in all of this is the media but we know that, this is Scotland afterall.

 

[clc]

He most certainly has but that is what happens when almost every newspaper, TV station and opposition parties are after him as an SNP politician and nothing to do with rail travel or ScotRail or passengers. The whole thing is manufactured for politics and they think playing the railway card will get an SNP scalp

You know things are bad when The Scotsman's transport correspondent publicly questions the BBC's integrity over the issue:

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlastairDalton/status/800834069307281408?p=v

 

[amcluesent]

It's going to be great - come on Humza you can do it!

There's a first time for everything! But after 10 long, long years, the SNP track record is a litany of failure on Scotland's education, health care & policing so I expect transport will be added to the list. (TBH, after they came close to allowing the Forth Road Bridge collapse due to 65% maintenance budget cuts, it's arguably already on the list!)

Anyway, the one thing that certainly won't happen is Humza taking responsibility; as usual with the SNP it'll be down to Westmonster/Toary austerity/some big boys who ran away.

 

[47271]

I don't hold with the developing idea on here that Yousaf is a victim of Labour and the Scottish media, lazy and poisonous though they both may be.

He's done everything he can over the past couple of months to maintain a narrative on Abellio's incompetence and the need for the franchise to be taken back one way or another. He could easily have chosen the low key approach taken by his comparatively invisible predecessor Derek Mackay, it's not like Scotrail's performance has actually got markedly worse since this time last year. And going by today's Herald, Abellio have finally lost patience and are actively briefing against Scottish ministers in the media. Considering that the SNP's reputation on rail had really been quite good until now, it does appear that he's made a bit of an unnecessary mess of things.

He fanned the flames, now he doesn't know how to put out the fire.

 

[Fishplate84]

...his comparatively invisible predecessor Derek Mackay,

I feel a small amount of sympathy for the current Transport Minister for having to cop the flack for something he had nothing to do with starting. Although he's not really doing himself any favours for wanting to be seen to get involved in the detail.

Mr Mackay doesn't seem that keen to step in and support his colleague given it was under his watch the contract was written, tendered and awarded.
If anyone's looking for a root cause, perhaps this is the place.
Good job he doesn't now have a powerful job his lack of experience can mess up. Oh, wait a minute.

 

[amcluesent]

Mackay, university drop-out then career SNP politician from age 21; Humza, Politics degree at uni then career SNP politician from age 25.

No wonder Scotland's transport infrastructure is failing with this pair in the devolved administration at Holyrood!

 

[Highland37]

There's a first time for everything! But after 10 long, long years, the SNP track record is a litany of failure on Scotland's education, health care & policing so I expect transport will be added to the list. (TBH, after they came close to allowing the Forth Road Bridge collapse due to 65% maintenance budget cuts, it's arguably already on the list!)

Anyway, the one thing that certainly won't happen is Humza taking responsibility; as usual with the SNP it'll be down to Westmonster/Toary austerity/some big boys who ran away.

Actually standards in schools are on the up, more new schools have been built, crime is down, more investment in transport etc.

Are you Ruth Davidson?

 

[380101]

Actually standards in schools are on the up, more new schools have been built, crime is down, more investment in transport etc.

Are you Ruth Davidson?

recorded crime is down - only because there is less police officers available to actually go out and proactively detect offences. Officer numbers may be said to have been increased but the actual number out on patrol or available to respond to crime is down due to having to fill jobs that civilians did a few years ago. Even the SNP target of X amount of officers has quietly been dropped because it was becoming difficult to maintain. (note I am a former serving police officer of a Scottish Force and have family still serving so keep up to date with what's really happening in Police Scotland).

Investment in transport is on the up, you're right about that but mistakes have also been made along the way. The Borders line is testament to this, as is allowing several 170s to be sent off lease. All rolling stock should have been made to have been retained as part of the franchise tender.

The main fault of the current administration is that they don't like to admit they are wrong (a trait all politicians of every party seem to have) and refuse to listen to industry experts.

 

[jingsmonty]

There's a first time for everything! But after 10 long, long years, the SNP track record is a litany of failure on Scotland's education, health care & policing so I expect transport will be added to the list. (TBH, after they came close to allowing the Forth Road Bridge collapse due to 65% maintenance budget cuts, it's arguably already on the list!)

Anyway, the one thing that certainly won't happen is Humza taking responsibility; as usual with the SNP it'll be down to Westmonster/Toary austerity/some big boys who ran away.

Might be nice to see a constructive comment, rather than the 'SNPbad' stuff I keep seeing - they ARE the elected Government of Scotland and, althought they are most definetly NOT perfect, they have done a LOT more for transport in Scotland than the previous Lab/Lib administration did (M74, Forth Bridge, A9 dualling, A82 Pulpit Rock, etc) - just wish I would see some concrete plans for the Highland Mainline improvements which are badly needed. Shame about GARL, admittedly!

At least they are OUR government and have Scotland's interests front and centre, unlike any of the Unionist parties, who will do whatever Westminster tells them to and who will do the bare minimum to appease 'those pesky Scots'!

If Scottish Labour did more than slag off the SNP, they might get somewhere - I thought Neil Bibby made a lot of good points over the DOO dispute, but needs to do more than just carp at Humza Yousef..who, it seems, managed to personally cause a train to break down last week (he must have snuck into Haymarket and sabotaged the units....)

 

[marks87]

Good grief, this is complete barrel-scraping from The Scotsman.

Train journeys between Edinburgh, Perth and Dundee are slower now than they were during the reign of Queen Victoria.

The astonishing findings come amid a storm of criticism of ScotRail operator Abellio due to late trains and delays.

Despite being powered by steam, locomotives in 1895 were able to make the trip from the Capital to Dundee in just 57 minutes, historic timetables show – compared to today’s 64 minutes.

And a journey to Perth which would have taken 65 minutes at the end of the 19th century now takes 72 minutes.

Opposition parties have called on Transport Minister Humza Yousaf to make an urgent statement to Parliament over proposals to bring Scotland’s railways into public ownership.

Responding to the findings of research by Scottish Labour, ScotRail blamed the slower journey times today on the fact there are now far more stations and trains to deal with than in the 19th century.

The direct rail route from Edinburgh to Perth via Dunfermline, Kinross and Glenfarg was closed in 1970 to make way for the M90 motorway.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/train-journeys-from-edinburgh-slower-than-victorian-era-1-4295966

No words can accurately sum up the stupidity of the article.

 

[Altnabreac]

Good grief, this is complete barrel-scraping from The Scotsman.



http://www.scotsman.com/news/train-journeys-from-edinburgh-slower-than-victorian-era-1-4295966

No words can accurately sum up the stupidity of the article.

There are many things you can blame the SNP for but closure of the Glenfarg route is probably not one where they can be held primarily to blame. :roll: