Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[me123]

Noticed some changes today:

*One class 370 had the new paint job as it had purple seats.
*The older trains not fitted with Wi-Fi now have been.
*When approaching Haymarket today the automated voice over said P&O ferries sounds like some form of advertising?
*The borders train has the Abellio logo looks better on the grey doors.
*They now mention trams, interchange stations.
*They apologise for no catering on local trains e.g Perth to Edinburgh.

In order...

* Scotrail don't operate, and never have operated, Class 370s as far as I'm aware? Besides, I'm not sure how having purple seats means that a train has had a paint job?
* Don't think there's been a huge roll-out of wifi AFAIK, at least no love and above what had already been done? It's on the 158s, 170s and 380s at the mo.
* Sounds like an error, P&O operate no routes from Edinburgh (nor does anyone else for that matter). Perhaps it's on the system because of the old interchange at Stranraer?
* Not surprised. The livery was launched just a few weeks before the franchise changed hands, so I'm sure it was on the cards. Most other 170s and indeed most other trains have also been detailed with Abellio branding, as was to be expected.
* Good to hear tram interchanges being announced. I've not heard it myself yet, but it will be useful information, even if it's only at Waverley and Haymarket (and presumably will be for the new Edinburgh Gateway station too).
* Are they apologising for no catering on trains where catering wasn't advertised? That's rather pointless.

 

[Scotrail88]

Does anybody know what's happening about driver operated doors?
A lot of discussion prior to the franchise starting but gone quiet - unless I've missed and it's transfered.

 

[gunn13]

The ferry announcement on some sets is an error. When they updated some of the sets to have the tram announcements it seems to have knocked something out of whack. Others include: "Change for Breich" at Croy; "change for Carrbridge" at Falkirk High; "Change for Corrour" at Anniesland

 

[scotraildriver]

The ferry announcement on some sets is an error. When they updated some of the sets to have the tram announcements it seems to have knocked something out of whack. Others include: "Change for Breich" at Croy; "change for Carrbridge" at Falkirk High; "Change for Corrour" at Anniesland

All caused by a rouge laptop at Haymarket depot allegedly........

 

[reb0118]

The ferry announcement on some sets is an error. When they updated some of the sets to have the tram announcements it seems to have knocked something out of whack. Others include: "Change for Breich" at Croy; "change for Carrbridge" at Falkirk High; "Change for Corrour" at Anniesland

All caused by a rouge laptop at Haymarket depot allegedly........

Inverkeithing for Châtellerault and Edinburgh Park for the Clyde Marine Sailing to Kilgreggan are another two..........

 

[Blindtraveler]

How many sets have been affected and is it just the 170s? With the inclusion of the tram I assume there is a batch of new clips, including at a guess borders new stations?

 

[matchmaker]

All caused by a rouge laptop at Haymarket depot allegedly........

A red laptop?

 

[najaB]

A red laptop?

There's no accounting for taste...

 

[Observer]

How many sets have been affected and is it just the 170s? With the inclusion of the tram I assume there is a batch of new clips, including at a guess borders new stations?

158s are also affected at least. Don't know about any of the rest.

 

[me123]

How many sets have been affected and is it just the 170s? With the inclusion of the tram I assume there is a batch of new clips, including at a guess borders new stations?

Been on a couple of 334s recently and haven't seen or heard any bizarre announcements, and certainly nothing about trams, but it appears (at least superficially) to be a different system.

 

[clc]

The boss of the new Scotrail/Network Rail alliance predicts Scotrail passenger numbers will increase from 91m to 139m over the next 10 years:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/scots-railway-chief-unveils-improvement-plans-1-3768991

Is that a realistic prediction and, if so, can the network cope with a 52% increase in passengers even taking planned capacity enhancing projects into account?

 

[najaB]

Is that a realistic prediction and, if so, can the network cope with a 52% increase in passengers even taking planned capacity enhancing projects into account?

I don't know how realistic the growth numbers are, but with the majority of intercity services going from three-car 170s to five-car HSTs, and Edinburgh-Glasgow services going up to as long as eight-car there's certainly scope to be able to carry significant additional numbers of passengers.

 

[Class 170101]

I guess thats a prediction based on suppressed demand due to te shorter trains. More seats means more space.

Think of a road they widen it and it fills with more cars as there is space to accommodate them.

 

[170401]

I'm guessing a lot of that growth will be expected form the longer distance market, here's hoping 5 car HSTs will be enough! There are certain times of the week a 3 car 170 is just ridiculous on these services and even a 6 car could be filled throughout.

Even on the E&G, as anyone who has ever tried getting on at an intermediate station on a midday Saturday with a large event on at any of the cities will testify, 4 car trains might still not be enough to cut it. Here's hoping we see more 8 car diagrams with the larger fleet at off peak times!

 

[oldman]

I'm guessing a lot of that growth will be expected form the longer distance market

I assume that most current traffic is shorter distance around Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen so it would require a massive increase in long-distance to produce a 40 or 50% increase in overall numbers. There would have to be a sustained increase in shorter distance traffic, say 3% per year, which might create capacity problems on some routes. A lot depends on the economy of course.

 

[me123]

I assume that most current traffic is shorter distance around Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen ...

There's not so much of a commuter network around Aberdeen. There's just the one line in each direction (North and South). To the North, commuter services to Inverurie are a major growth corridor, but Dyce station has a relatively poor frequency in comparison to the bus services. Beyond Inverurie, there's still a poor service. To the South, Portlethen has a poor service to Aberdeen. Stonehaven and Montrose fare much better, but otherwise there's not much else.

But otherwise the traffic up here is mostly longer distance (Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Stirling, Elgin, Inverness...) and whilst some people certainly will use the network for commuting, I don't think there's much of a short distance network. Certainly not in comparison to Glasgow (biggest network outwith London IIRC).

As such, growth in the North East using existing infrastructure will rely much more on longer distance growth compared to other parts of the country. However, the improvements between Aberdeen and Inverness will certainly make commuter journeys much more attractive (Insch and Huntly will become bigger commuter towns).

 

[Bodiddly]

There's not so much of a commuter network around Aberdeen. There's just the one line in each direction (North and South). To the North, commuter services to Inverurie are a major growth corridor, but Dyce station has a relatively poor frequency in comparison to the bus services. Beyond Inverurie, there's still a poor service. To the South, Portlethen has a poor service to Aberdeen. Stonehaven and Montrose fare much better, but otherwise there's not much else.

But otherwise the traffic up here is mostly longer distance (Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Stirling, Elgin, Inverness...) and whilst some people certainly will use the network for commuting, I don't think there's much of a short distance network. Certainly not in comparison to Glasgow (biggest network outwith London IIRC).

As such, growth in the North East using existing infrastructure will rely much more on longer distance growth compared to other parts of the country. However, the improvements between Aberdeen and Inverness will certainly make commuter journeys much more attractive (Insch and Huntly will become bigger commuter towns).

As frustrating as it is, Inverness is just not geared up for commuter trains. I would love to see a commuter network South from Inverness with new stations at the University (which would also serve the retail park and a wee bit further, Raigmore Hospital) and Balloch/Culloden. This would take a lot more than just infrastructure to see it happening. That is why I don't think it ever will come to fruition. Also equally frustrating is the service to Nairn and Elgin which is woefull! With an average 2hours between trains and the last train out from Inverness is at 21.33! Compare that to a weekend 23.30 to Tain which goes out nearly empty except for the odd burst of boozers going home. Why we can't have a similar service to Elgin baffles me.

 

[oldman]

There's not so much of a commuter network around Aberdeen. There's just the one line in each direction (North and South). To the North, commuter services to Inverurie are a major growth corridor, but Dyce station has a relatively poor frequency in comparison to the bus services.

The point I was making was that a large increase in longer distance traffic has a relatively small impact on overall passenger numbers, but I would be interested to know what proportion of passengers alighting in Aberdeen on Inverness trains (and vice versa) have come from, say, Keith or beyond or are connecting further, and could therefore be classed as longer distance.

 

[me123]

As frustrating as it is, Inverness is just not geared up for commuter trains. I would love to see a commuter network South from Inverness with new stations at the University (which would also serve the retail park and a wee bit further, Raigmore Hospital) and Balloch/Culloden. This would take a lot more than just infrastructure to see it happening. That is why I don't think it ever will come to fruition. Also equally frustrating is the service to Nairn and Elgin which is woefull! With an average 2hours between trains and the last train out from Inverness is at 21.33! Compare that to a weekend 23.30 to Tain which goes out nearly empty except for the odd burst of boozers going home. Why we can't have a similar service to Elgin baffles me.

Can't speak for the Far North, aside to say that the steady increase in services up that way represents good growth that hasn't been seen on other corridors. Inverness-Aberdeen will go hourly once the project is complete, with Inverness-Elgin allegedly going to be half-hourly (1tp2h is pretty poor). As a former resident of Elgin and Moray, this is a fantastic boost for a fantastic area.

I don't see an Inverness city network realistically coming to fruition TBH. The numbers would be relatively low, and the areas better served by bus connections. Raigmore is fairly close to the city centre (if you're looking at a station at Millburn Junction) and I'm not convinced that a station there would be the best use of resources, particularly since you'd be looking at 3 platforms in a relatively isolated area to catch all trains at Millburn Junction, with an increase in journey time too.

 

[JohnR]

Does anyone have details of the proposed journey times to be achieved when the HSTs come in?

 

[HH]

Does anyone have details of the proposed journey times to be achieved when the HSTs come in?

I doubt whether that's in the public domain and in any case all this would be subject to negotiation with NR (which won't start until Summer 2017) and may depend on some infrastructure changes.

 

[JohnR]

I thought I had read somewhere that they were offering savings of 7 or 10 minutes from Aberdeen to Glasgow... agree that detailed paths etc wont come until closer to their introduction, but wondered if there had been any PR announcements.

 

[HH]

I thought I had read somewhere that they were offering savings of 7 or 10 minutes from Aberdeen to Glasgow... agree that detailed paths etc wont come until closer to their introduction, but wondered if there had been any PR announcements.

Those numbers look about right. For Inverness there's this, although I think the improvements don't all happen at once.

 

[ainsworth74]

This thread is for discussion about Scotrail it is not for discussion about any other Abellio subsidiaries. It is also not a place to continue discussion from a temporarily closed thread.

Any further off-topic posts will be deleted and persistent off-topic posting will lead to action being taken against such users.

 

[Max 1986]

This thread is for discussion about Scotrail it is not for discussion about any other Abellio subsidiaries. It is also not a place to continue discussion from a temporarily closed thread.

Any further off-topic posts will be deleted and persistent off-topic posting will lead to action being taken against such users.

Fair play. I love scot rail

 

[Highland37]

I think I recall hearing that some of the HST sets might be just four coaches. Is that correct or will they all be five?

If five, will any buffet type of service be provided?

 

[HH]

I think I recall hearing that some of the HST sets might be just four coaches. Is that correct or will they all be five?

If five, will any buffet type of service be provided?

1. I can't see any point in some being 4 and the rest 5; it would cause logistics problems for small savings.

2. There will be catering, but I've not seen anything to say it will be a buffet. I'd be surprised if there was a business case for it TBH.

 

[me123]

1. I can't see any point in some being 4 and the rest 5; it would cause logistics problems for small savings.

Ahh, but that is (allegedly) the plan. Which does seem a bit silly to me. I'd certainly argue that a standardised fleet of 2+5 HSTs would be a more sensible approach, with few (if any) adverse ramifications. Many would argue that the Aberdeen-Inverness trains simply don't need 5 cars, but they are a lot busier than most people in the Central Belt imagine and 5 cars wouldn't be too ridiculous.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think I recall hearing that some of the HST sets might be just four coaches. Is that correct or will they all be five?

From December 2018 there will be fourteen 2+4 and thirteen 2+5 HST sets. This is expected to change to thirteen 2+4, twelve 2+5 and two 2+6 by December 2022.

 

[ainsworth74]

If five, will any buffet type of service be provided?

2. There will be catering, but I've not seen anything to say it will be a buffet. I'd be surprised if there was a business case for it TBH.

As per the brochure issued by Transport Scotland way back in October:

Introduction of hugely popular high speed trains for inter-city travel between Stirling, Perth and Dundee and the other four Scottish cities with faster journey times, improved facilities, galley catering, more comfort and greater security for passengers

And from Abellio at around the same time:

Transformation of the quality of inter-city services by introducing a fully refurbished fleet of HSTs by December 2018 to connect the seven cities. The refurbishment will deliver:

• high quality on-board service, buffet and at seat catering
• a proper First Class offer for business travellers
• more toilets, luggage space and bike accommodation
• improved journey times and connectivity between the key cities

So buffet would appear to be on the menu (forgive the pun). My guess is that the formation will be similar to the WAG Express down in Wales where first class is provided in a first class buffet.