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Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

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reb0118

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.....or will [TPE] Edinburgh [Catering] Crews be taxied [to Glasgow]?.....

Not my area of expertise but here's a few thoughts?

  • 1) Whilst it is quite easy to taxi crew about what about the trolley? Would there be any H&S concerns about an unsecured trolley in a cab?
  • 2) Cost: I am sure that the cost of the taxi fare alone would wipe out most if not all of the profit for that individual run - I could be wrong.

One solution would be to base all the catering crews at Edinburgh and to send the Glasgow jobs pass to Carlisle to pick up their workings there. Whilst there may be a requirement to have catering on Anglo - Scottish services does that also mean that catering must be provided in Scotland per se?

Secondly it is my belief that TPE share Scotrail's catering facility at Edinburgh. Is that also under threat?
 
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Chrism20

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Not my area of expertise but here's a few thoughts?

  • 1) Whilst it is quite easy to taxi crew about what about the trolley? Would there be any H&S concerns about an unsecured trolley in a cab?
  • 2) Cost: I am sure that the cost of the taxi fare alone would wipe out most if not all of the profit for that individual run - I could be wrong.

One solution would be to base all the catering crews at Edinburgh and to send the Glasgow jobs pass to Carlisle to pick up their workings there. Whilst there may be a requirement to have catering on Anglo - Scottish services does that also mean that catering must be provided in Scotland per se?

Secondly it is my belief that TPE share Scotrail's catering facility at Edinburgh. Is that also under threat?

I'm guessing an empty trolley can be secured in the set overnight so that wouldn't be a major issue, however there would be no hot water for in the morning.

The 185s had little cupboards for excess stock, I'm not sure about the 350s though and even then there probably wouldn't be enough space.

Catering sales onboard are good. From observation probably one in every three or four customers purchase something, however as you say taxis would cost a fortune especially late night and early mornings. At present the sales probably cover the staff wages and running costs such as trolley maintenance etc they won't be making much and certainly not enough to cover transport.
 

al.currie93

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DMU's for short dashes here and there are no problem,but just bite the bullet and get 68's and some new coaching stock with some form of DBSO or DVT. (Now wait for the DMU whingers having a pop!)

Fully agreed. For journeys where the average time between stations is greater than 10, definitely 15, minutes, I feel that locomotives, coaches and DBS(F?)Os are better suited.
 

Bodiddly

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Again, this catering 'problem' is pure speculation. If the catering is within the contract to run Anglo Scottish routes then the service must be provided or TPE will incur large fines for breach of contract. I would be amazed if TPE were so short sighted to rely on a sister company in another TOC to provide the early trolley services. The decision not to use the Sub contractor may have been a chance to 're-organize the core business' or some other management speak for people losing their jobs at this time of year.
 

Eng274

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Aren't some of TPE's catering staff provided by an agency? Or has it been brought in house?
 

66C

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Reading some of the previous posts about introduction of Scotrail HSTs. I thought the whole point of them was to use there superior power to speed up journey times without spending vast amounts on realigning much of the infrastructure
 

Altnabreac

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Reading some of the previous posts about introduction of Scotrail HSTs. I thought the whole point of them was to use there superior power to speed up journey times without spending vast amounts on realigning much of the infrastructure

As far as we can tell they fulfill 3 main purposes for the bidder:
  1. Faster journey times
  2. More capacity
  3. Cheaper Leasing costs

We can't quite be certain on the 3rd one whether they are cheaper than 170s but it's almost certain that the leasing costs are lower than Voyagers would have been which was the other option for accelerated journey times.
 

Blindtraveler

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And whilst they make us in a sense look dated and behind the times, with a quick trip to Donkaster for some power doors, new loos, seat covers and better WiFi they will, even if late and wedged as my INV>STG trip in a 170 was last weekend be a vast improvement! Not only that, but no voyagers would have been in traffic till much later and if coming from XC Would need major refurbs first where as FGW Have looked after there stock.↲
 

Blindtraveler

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Youd think so wouldnt you, but looks as if this is not to be. I do hope that the new arrangements include retaining catering in house at Scotrail, it makes such a difference to the qualitty of onboard service in my view.
 

Class 170101

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[*]Cheaper Leasing costs


We can't quite be certain on the 3rd one whether they are cheaper than 170s but it's almost certain that the leasing costs are lower than Voyagers would have been which was the other option for accelerated journey times.

I understood that Voyagers and HSTs were broadly similar overall. Perhaps Abellio got a cheaper deal which thereby ensured the leasor saw their asset remain in service for another (upto) 10 years rather than being scrapped.
 

Carlisle

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I think all TPEs are agency, ScotRail was in house at one point not sure if it still is.

TPE catering staff used to work for Rail Gourmet, don't know if that's still true
 
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387star

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Think First are beginning to remove branding seen one train with all First branding removed
 

170401

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Think First are beginning to remove branding seen one train with all First branding removed

I suspect this may be the actions of an individual or possibly a depot team somewhere rather than any official debranding exercise, given the slow rate at which units are being debranded.
 

WatcherZero

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Abellio won ScotRail on quality, not price

Abellio won the new ScotRail franchise with a bid that required £29m more subsidy than second placed National Express Group but was rated significantly higher in quality.

Information released to Passenger Transport by Transport Scotland shows that Dutch group Abellio will receive £776m subsidy over the seven-year contract. One bidder, understood to be National Express, required lower subsidy (£747m) but lost out due to Transport Scotland’s view of the quality of its proposals. Abellio’s quality score (70.7) was the highest of any bidder competing for the franchise and well ahead of any of its rivals. National Express’s quality score (62.8) was the lowest.

The formula for awarding the contract was weighted 65% on price and 35% on quality. When both factors were taken into account, Abellio beat NEG by just 0.24%. Analysis of the bid scores shows that if NEG had received the quality rating awarded to any other bidder, it would have won the contract.

Abellio’s plan for the new franchise, which begins in April, includes: increasing the number of carriages by 23%; providing quicker, higher quality intercity services by replacing the current rolling stock with refurbished HSTs; a new range of cheaper more flexible fares; and major integrated transport and station development programmes (PT094).

However, a National Express spokesman told Passenger Transport that NEG was “baffled” by Transport Scotland’s decision and the quality ratings. NEG’s bid included new trains for Scotland’s seven intercity routes compared to the 35-year-old HSTs that Abellio will source from Great Western or East Coast after those franchises receive new Intercity Express stock. NEG believes its offer would also have provided faster journeys than Abellio’s. It is understood that a further cause of consternation to NEG is that its bid included customer service innovations that contributed to its successful Essex Thameside bid receiving the highest quality score from the Department for Transport in that competition.

NEG considered a judicial review of the decision, but opted not to proceed.

The information released by Transport Scotland also shows that the other bidders – incumbent operator FirstGroup, Arriva and MTR – were all a considerable way behind the top two. The third placed bidder, thought to be First, required £65m more subsidy than NEG and £36m more than Abellio. Its quality score was comparable to NEG’s but well behind Abellio.

One bidder, which industry sources speculated was likely to be MTR, submitted a bid which required subsidy of £1.1bn. The high subsidy requirement meant it was knocked out of the competition automatically because the subsidy offered was over £175m more than the lowest priced bid.

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2014/12/abellio-won-scotrail-on-quality-not-price/
 

scotraildriver

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I suspect this may be the actions of an individual or possibly a depot team somewhere rather than any official debranding exercise, given the slow rate at which units are being debranded

Guys at Corkerhill say all units to be de branded by 1st April. Furthermore they are all to be tarted up for the handover, no damaged seats etc and the 156's are being patch painted as required especially in the cab. 499 in particular is looking smart. Noticed 158711 has also had its cab repainted so suspect all the fleets the same.
 
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overthewater

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However, a National Express spokesman told Passenger Transport that NEG was “baffled” by Transport Scotland’s decision and the quality ratings. NEG’s bid included new trains for Scotland’s seven intercity routes compared to the 35-year-old HSTs that Abellio will source from Great Western or East Coast after those franchises receive new Intercity Express stock

I'm fed up with DMU (is that the correct terms ie the 170s) for long distance express around Scotland, why can't we have proper express trains? Alot of commuters on the Fife express opt for the class 67 puller.

It's become clear First had no chance of winning this, one has to wonder if First bumped up it's price to get more cash flow.
 

387star

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Guys at Corkerhill say all units to be de branded by 1st April. Furthermore they are all to be tarted up for the handover, no damaged seats etc and the 156's are being patch painted as required especially in the cab. 499 in particular is looking smart. Noticed 158711 has also had its cab repainted so suspect all the fleets the same.

SPT units which have been painted still show their old colours in places
 

Strathclyder

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Think First are beginning to remove branding seen one train with all First branding removed
Saw a pair of 156s (156465 & 156453, both of which are allocated to Corkerhill) at Dalmuir yesterday with the First branding removed:


SAM_3449.JPG
 
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jonnysr

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It will be interesting to see when they start removing the "ScotRail is operated by First" stickers on the Saltired stock if they remove cleanly or take some of the paintwork below off with them!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was on a Saltired 318 today and the passenger safety information notices & the ones about keeping feet off the seats have been debranded in a rather novel way - the "First" part being scored over by a black marker pen!
 

Maxfly

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It will be interesting to see when they start removing the "ScotRail is operated by First" stickers on the Saltired stock if they remove cleanly or take some of the paintwork below off with them!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was on a Saltired 318 today and the passenger safety information notices & the ones about keeping feet off the seats have been debranded in a rather novel way - the "First" part being scored over by a black marker pen!

Shouldnt be a problem as i believe its just vinyl on vinyl, no paint.
Several of Inverness's 158's lost their First decals at least a month ago, probably longer i think.
 

jonnysr

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Noticed a 380 today with the "ScotRail is operated by First" stickers removed from the doors. The simplicity of the debranding is genius, they should copy this model elsewhere in the UK.
 

cf111

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I am sure that I read somewhere that the new saltire branding was to be applied to all sets by the time the franchise is taken over - was this actually the case and if it was, is it still?
 
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