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Scotrail Draft ITT

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YorkshireBear

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Splitting this off from the Stranraer thread.

Note: this thread can also be used for the sleeper franchise where bidders are to return their ITT by the end of the year.

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/rail/ScotRail-Draft-ITT.pdf


This has now been released, seems a little bit more freedom than the previous ITTs i have read for franchises.

Of personal interest to me is they want bidders to increase Edinburgh Waverley and Berwick upon Tweed including more services to Dunbar and potential new stations at Reston and East Linton.
I have regularly voiced my over lack of services on this section and it is nice to see it being addressed.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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It's worth saying that the short list to receive the final Scotrail ITT is: Abellio, Arriva, First, MTR, NX.
Note the omission of that well-known Scottish company Stagecoach.

The only rolling stock mandated is the Class 380 fleet, for which there is a Section 54 agreement with the ROSCO to continue into the new franchise.
All the other train leases expire at the end of the current franchise, so bidders can come up with whatever plans they like.
New EMUs will be necessary for EGIP services, but we might also see new trains elsewhere.

I notice that the initial EGIP commitment for Edinburgh-Glasgow services is for a 7-car Class 380 train to be offered each way in December 2016, with full services with new stock a year later.

Reference is also made to the "transport authorites in the north of England" to the effect that Scotrail may not have to provide stock for the Carlisle-Newcastle service.
That's the second reference to "Rail North" in recent ITTs (the other was in the prospectus for ICEC).
 

YorkshireBear

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I am not sure Stagecoach would have been that interested? It doesn't really suit their rail image in my opinion.
 

sonic2009

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If Stagecoach had entered and won, then parts of the bus network would have to be sold, it was mentioned on here somewhere something to do with competition rules. I think the same happened to Nat Ex.

I don't think they want to give up that too easily :)
 

SkinnyDave

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I'm wondering what stock the successful bidder may get for the long distance routes?
It's been discussed Voyager/Meridian but if they are not available??
 

Argosy

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Some of the other interesting issues include scenic route trains and committment to Scottish Community Rail Partnerships.

2.4. Scenic train initiatives

2.4.1. Background

As part of a sustainable approach to development, the Scottish Ministers wish to secure benefits for the wider Scottish community. One area that the Scottish Ministers wish to encourage is the promotion of tourism in Scottish communities, which can be facilitated by the introduction of scenic trains.

2.4.2. Transport Scotland’s requirements

Bidders should present plans to operate trains, which capitalise on the potential for tourism on many routes on the Scottish Rail Network. As a minimum, the plans must include scenic train provision on the West Highland Line to Oban / Fort William and the Kyle Line, where ‘scenic train provision’ may involve the provision of “premium carriages” on standard trains.

The Franchisee will be expected to work with local partners to develop their tourist services.

Bidders should demonstrate how tourist services could act as a showcase for Scotland, including catering facilities, which serve local/Scottish produce.

This should also include improving the scenic opportunities for passengers, and may involve vegetation clearance as appropriate working with local partners, Network Rail and owners of land adjoining the railway. Work of this nature has already taken place on the West Highland Line by Network Rail working with Friends of the West Highland Lines and the Loch Lomond & Trossachs National Park Authority.

Bidders should submit their own ideas for the configuration of scenic trains and on-board facilities. However, as a minimum Bidders are required to demonstrate that the seating will be arranged to maximise the view through the windows with improved seating comfort, the provision of Wi-Fi, appropriate luggage space, the ability to secure cycles and catering facilities, able to support at least an at-seat service of hot drinks and light refreshments featuring local produce where possible and otherwise Scottish produce where possible.

The train should contain appropriate tourist information, in an ambience that promotes the local heritage, scenery and tourist attractions with the aim of capturing the imagination of and leaving an impression of Scotland on the passenger.

2.4.3. Additional outcomes

The requirements of Transport Scotland for scenic train provision, as set out above, represent a minimum requirement for the ScotRail franchise. Bidders are free to identify more widespread or ambitious proposals, which promote and facilitate the development of tourism using Scotland’s railways. Transport Scotland is particularly interested in proposals that provide business to local communities, which the trains serve. Bringing more business to local communities may be achieved in a number of ways:
• Providing enhanced observation opportunities for passengers on board;
• Providing further levels of comfort on board;
• Wider or more ambitious geographical coverage;
• Provision of dedicated scenic trains, if this is shown to provide more patronage; and
• More opportunities for cross working with local communities. This may involve more opportunities for SMEs and the involvement of Community Rail Partnerships ( Bidders should cross reference Sections 2.3 (Social Initiatives) and 2.4 (Community Rail Partnership) of this Delivery Plan 4 (Sustainability) in this regard).
Any proposals should be backed up by appropriate research and undertakings to illustrate their robustness.
 

Class83

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Hope they do decent refurb for this type if work if they do keep them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Wouldn't have a problem with 185s

Only real issue with the 185s against 170s is that they have fewer seats, if there are enough units to run all services as 6 car they would be good for acceleration. They would still have the doors opening directly into seating area at Aviemore in winter problem though.
 

YorkshireBear

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Can i suggest a 244? Diesel version of 444. Surely this is the solution to everything????

In all seriousness, i have noticed in the NE of England in winter the 1/3 2/3 doors do cause problems. But i still think the problems with dwell times through TPE core would be too great with end doors.

I don't think Scotland will want to release 170s for 158s (the only suitable end door DMU) so i can not see the problem changing in all honesty.
 

SkinnyDave

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Realistically when would 221/2s be available for Cascade anyway-Scotrail or otherwise?
 

YorkshireBear

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Realistically when would 221/2s be available for Cascade anyway-Scotrail or otherwise?

I had forgotten about them!

220s/221s

At best the next ICWC franchise but i would rather those voyagers provide extra capacity on the XC network.

I would say realistically 2020-2025 as further electrification is completed or IEP bi-modes appear on XC network.

I would then do a major voyager refurb reduce top speed to 118mph and add extra seats in. Although not sure what to do about platform lengths.

222s

2021 we are likely to have the entire 222 fleet available so maybe they are the best option. As better trains i would certainly think so, and they come in 7-5-4 car formations allowing capacity to be tailored to services.

In summary 222s early 2020s may be the best option.
 
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SkinnyDave

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I had forgotten about them!

220s/221s

At best the next ICWC franchise but i would rather those voyagers provide extra capacity on the XC network.

I would say realistically 2020-2025 as further electrification is completed or IEP bi-modes appear on XC network.

I would then do a major voyager refurb reduce top speed to 118mph and add extra seats in. Although not sure what to do about platform lengths.



222s

2021 we are likely to have the entire 222 fleet available so maybe they are the best option. As better trains i would certainly think so, and they come in 7-5-4 car formations allowing capacity to be tailored to services.

In summary 222s early 2020s may be the best option.

Think It's been suggested GW may look at 222s too on other threads
 
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I'm wondering what stock the successful bidder may get for the long distance routes?
It's been discussed Voyager/Meridian but if they are not available??

Won't some of these become available after the likes of the GWML/MML electrification is finished?

How much journey time savings would the 220s and 221s offer? My understanding is that you can't even do the "ton" on any stretch of the line between Aberdeen and Dundee.

As for the 222s, I imagine that they will still continue to be of use down south for now. Places like Exeter, Plymouth and Cornwall will probably make use of them until they are under wires (hopefully during CP6).

Once that happens, and they get round to electrifying the lines up here (I'm inclined to say "if" rather than "when") then perhaps the Meridians will be of great use especially if they decide to wire Waverley-Dundee before Dunblane-Aberdeen.

But to be of any complete benefit, my feeling is that major line speed improvements would need to be made.
 

SkinnyDave

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Won't some of these become available after the likes of the GWML/MML electrification is finished?

How much journey time savings would the 220s and 221s offer? My understanding is that you can't even do the "ton" on any stretch of the line between Aberdeen and Dundee.

As for the 222s, I imagine that they will still continue to be of use down south for now. Places like Exeter, Plymouth and Cornwall will probably make use of them until they are under wires (hopefully during CP6).

Once that happens, and they get round to electrifying the lines up here (I'm inclined to say "if" rather than "when") then perhaps the Meridians will be of great use especially if they decide to wire Waverley-Dundee before Dunblane-Aberdeen.

But to be of any complete benefit, my feeling is that major line speed improvements would need to be made.

I don't think it's the journey timings that's the problem per se but more the comfort levels.. I think there is a thought that 170s are not suitable certainly in there current guise for these levels of journey. I know I prefer travelling on East Coast to Aberdeen, not done Chieftain yet
 
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I don't think it's the journey timings that's the problem per se but more the comfort levels.. I think there is a thought that 170s are not suitable certainly in there current guise for these levels of journey. I know I prefer travelling on East Coast to Aberdeen, not done Chieftain yet

Reading through all this report, I notice that the Aberdeen-Inverness route has been upgraded to inter city as opposed to its current rural standing. They wouldn't run Voyagers/Meridians on this line surely?
 

jopsuk

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I wasn't, top be fair, suggesting that 170s are the ideal. Just what's most realistic!

If 170s were to be kept, a serious refurb and reformation could produce something worthwhile. If it was to be a dedicated Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness fleet:
  • Add vestibule doors (similar to those on 1st class sections) throughout
  • reform as 6-carriage formations
 
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I wasn't, top be fair, suggesting that 170s are the ideal. Just what's most realistic!

If 170s were to be kept, a serious refurb and reformation could produce something worthwhile. If it was to be a dedicated Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness fleet:
  • Add vestibule doors (similar to those on 1st class sections) throughout
  • reform as 6-carriage formations

As others have said, it may well be that the time of 170s on inter city routes up here is coming to an end.

But I have an idea for some of them. In my corner of the world, the railway really has no business being a success, what with so few towns being served by the network. Peterhead, Fraserburgh, Westhill, Ellon and Banchory are the largest settlements not on the network. But passenger numbers at Inverurie (404,000) and Dyce (678000) in recent years have mushroomed. In fact they are currently growing at a rate of 18%, which suggests a doubling of numbers in less than 5 years.

With this in mind, I can see the new franchise holder looking at the prospect of running more frequent services between Inverurie and Stonehaven, which had over half a million passengers last year. At the moment, 2 tph to these stations would probably be OTT, but train lenghthening looks as though it will be necessary sometime soon.

Should a frequent shuttle between Stonehaven and Inverurie be necessary in years to come, I think that the 170s would be ideal for this task.
 

clc

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"..if journey time savings are included in the Bidders' proposals then they will, subject to a deliverability assessment, benefit through a mechanism to adjust the NPV of subsidy used in the Price evaluation. This will be valued at £0.84 million per annum (expressed in real terms in 2013 prices) for each minute of reduction to the average train journey time. Any NPV adjustment awarded will be applied on an annual basis (using the same discount rate and further reduction factor applied in the price evaluation as detailed in Section 3.4.5 (Financial Assessment)), to coincide with the years for which the savings are achieved, capped at a maximum of 10 minutes"

As a layperson the above doesnt mean much to me. Will it give much incentive to bidders to reduce journey times?
 

Blindtraveler

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NX Shaved a few mins off at time of 170 introduction but lets be brutal here, it could be bettered and although the turbostars hold there own, just, on the Aberdeens for Invernep there hopeless and gutless. In both cases the internal fittings are totally unsuitable. They would be better cascaded to the GSW, non wired suburban routes, shots line etc.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Realistically when would 221/2s be available for Cascade anyway-Scotrail or otherwise?

The leases for all the Voyagers expire in March 2016.
It isn't at all obvious if/when VT or XC will be in a position to decide if they want to continue with them.
It all depends on the extension contracts still to be negotiated with DfT.
 

CallySleeper

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Of personal interest to me is they want bidders to increase Edinburgh Waverley and Berwick upon Tweed including more services to Dunbar and potential new stations at Reston and East Linton.
Great plan, could link up with SF/all stations service to Newcastle, but good luck finding paths for that.
 

NotATrainspott

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It's nice to see that in every single rolling stock specification they say pretty explicitly that the franchise is never allowed to use a Pacer.
 

reb0118

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If Scotland become independent will that provide barriers to internal cascades?

Would they have to be named "external" cascades. Would not be applicable if we changed to 5' 3" gauge like our celtic cousins across the North Channel - at least that would stop any troop movements by rail in the case of an english invasion. :p.

In all seriousness though you do raise a valid point. IMO although a further level of bureaucracy is created that would not stop the exchange of rolling stock - there is at present freedom of movement in the EU.
 

jopsuk

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On fares- interesting that the regulated fares are done so NOT on a "Fares basket" approach- so the franchisee cannot hike fares on "premium" routes by keeping fare increases low on other routes (as appears to happen on some franchises in England)
 
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