ScotRail Class 314 future use?

[NorthernSpirit]

I'm suprised that Northern doesn't take them on for the short term for some of the electrified routes. Alternatively the centre cars may come in handy should Northern with to extend the almost knackered 321's and 322's to five or six car operation.

 

[IanXC]

What about Ayr-Edinburgh/North Berwick services? They are currently run by 380's and there is no plan to replace the 380's on the Ayrshire Coast Line with 385's

As I recall North Berwick is going to 385 operation. What holds for the services from Ayr I'm not sure, but A2B is remaining 334 operated so that's another EMU class present in Edinburgh.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

So will the PEP replace the 442 as the forum "101 things to do with a carriage" project?

 

[Mordac]

I'm suprised that Northern doesn't take them on for the short term for some of the electrified routes. Alternatively the centre cars may come in handy should Northern with to extend the almost knackered 321's and 322's to five or six car operation.

Northern ain't keeping the 321/2s much longer.

 

[Haig paxton]

Personally I think Scotrail should hold on to as many as possible. They are ideal for the Cathcart Circle and Newton lines as well as the Paisley Canal. They were designed as commuter trains and still have plenty of life in them yet, in spite of what drivers on this forum think. Their use on the Gourock line is not ideal though. The point here is, with a nationwide shortage of trains it is lunacy to scrap them just yet.

Another option may be to re-form the 321s as 4 cars and send them to a TOC who will actually utilise the whole train and not force the storage of suitable stock. Scotrail could then run 6 car 314/320s and that means the full fleet is put to good use.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So will the PEP replace the 442 as the forum "101 things to do with a carriage" project?

We had all that with the ex-SE/LO 508s!

 

[NotATrainspott]

Personally I think Scotrail should hold on to as many as possible. They are ideal for the Cathcart Circle and Newton lines as well as the Paisley Canal. They were designed as commuter trains and still have plenty of life in them yet, in spite of what drivers on this forum think. Their use on the Gourock line is not ideal though. The point here is, with a nationwide shortage of trains it is lunacy to scrap them just yet.

Another option may be to re-form the 321s as 4 cars and send them to a TOC who will actually utilise the whole train and not force the storage of suitable stock. Scotrail could then run 6 car 314/320s and that means the full fleet is put to good use.

There's no shortage of EMUs coming up. There are literally thousands of EMU carriages being built in the next few years for all different lines and purposes, leaving little use for obsolete designs. The 314s aren't being scrapped until they are replaced like-for-like with superior trains which are more reliable, so scrapping them is not going to mean a reduction in capacity. If (when) additional trains are required to cope with passenger numbers, Abellio has an option for another 10 3-car Class 385s.

 

[Bishopstone]

Class 314 expert opinion: 'Life-expired; corroding; unreliable; too costly to maintain; running out of spare parts; unnecessary to keep as plenty of new EMUs being built.'

Class 313/2 expert opinion: 'Another ten years left in them; solid; reliable; easy to maintain; plenty of spare parts; insufficient benefit to be had in replacing them with new stock.'

What gives?

 

[Domh245]

Class 314 expert opinion: 'Life-expired; corroding; unreliable; too costly to maintain; running out of spare parts; unnecessary to keep as plenty of new EMUs being built.'

Class 313/2 expert opinion: 'Another ten years left in them; solid; reliable; easy to maintain; plenty of spare parts; insufficient benefit to be had in replacing them with new stock.'

What gives?

A several million pound investment and a guaranteed home?

 

[Bishopstone]

A several million pound investment and a guaranteed home?

The 314s have been overhauled/refurbished at some point, surely?

And every class of unit has a 'guaranteed home' until someone decides to replace them, per the 314s.

 

[Domh245]

The 314s have been overhauled/refurbished at some point, surely?

And every class of unit has a 'guaranteed home' until someone decides to replace them, per the 314s.

They have, but the Southern overhauls were more recent and more thorough (and more expensive!).

As for the guaranteed home, I mean in the sense of Franchise guarantees. 313s are supposed to be in use on the coastway until the end of the reign of terror current franchise. The 314s were due to be replaced in the current franchise.

 

[Desiro Boy]

Personally I think Scotrail should hold on to as many as possible. They are ideal for the Cathcart Circle and Newton lines as well as the Paisley Canal. They were designed as commuter trains and still have plenty of life in them yet, in spite of what drivers on this forum think. Their use on the Gourock line is not ideal though. The point here is, with a nationwide shortage of trains it is lunacy to scrap them just yet.

Another option may be to re-form the 321s as 4 cars and send them to a TOC who will actually utilise the whole train and not force the storage of suitable stock. Scotrail could then run 6 car 314/320s and that means the full fleet is put to good use.

I'm bias and would agree as I grew up with the 315's.

 

[Altnabreac]

Personally I think Scotrail should hold on to as many as possible. They are ideal for the Cathcart Circle and Newton lines as well as the Paisley Canal. They were designed as commuter trains and still have plenty of life in them yet, in spite of what drivers on this forum think. Their use on the Gourock line is not ideal though. The point here is, with a nationwide shortage of trains it is lunacy to scrap them just yet.

Another option may be to re-form the 321s as 4 cars and send them to a TOC who will actually utilise the whole train and not force the storage of suitable stock. Scotrail could then run 6 car 314/320s and that means the full fleet is put to good use.

Scotrail will have a large surplus of stock in about 18 months time so no need to keep less than ideal stock. My local service uses 314s and they are tired rattlely old things that have had their day.

2+2 seating, Wi-Fi, toilets, charging sockets etc are all things expected by modern commuters and the 385s will be a huge step up in quality. Personally I can't wait to see them go.

 

[hwl]

Class 314 expert opinion: 'Life-expired; corroding; unreliable; too costly to maintain; running out of spare parts; unnecessary to keep as plenty of new EMUs being built.'

Class 313/2 expert opinion: 'Another ten years left in them; solid; reliable; easy to maintain; plenty of spare parts; insufficient benefit to be had in replacing them with new stock.'

What gives?

313/1s will be providing plenty of parts shortly when the inevitable happens. (and 314s and 315s soon too).
Plenty of parts from the 508s ).

313/2s had good refurb so are in the best shape of the PEP units and will get replaced in the next franchise /management contract along with the 455s.

Presumably the 385 will have DOO cameras which will make DOO safer?

 

[MatthewRead]

313/1s will be providing plenty of parts shortly when the inevitable happens. (and 314s and 315s soon too).
Plenty of parts from the 508s ).

313/2s had good refurb so are in the best shape of the PEP units and will get replaced in the next franchise /management contract along with the 455s.

Presumably the 385 will have DOO cameras which will make DOO safer?

I don't think the 313/2 refurbishment was great have you not seen how grubby the seats look they are less than ten years old and yet they look like someone was sick all over them. I think either Southern are hoping to get rid of them very soon or they are just trying to win the award for the dirtiest trains:-x

 

[hwl]

I don't think the 313/2 refurbishment was great have you not seen how grubby the seats look they are less than ten years old and yet they look like someone was sick all over them. I think either Southern are hoping to get rid of them very soon or they are just trying to win the award for the dirtiest trains:-x

Aren't they meant to be getting an interior refresh soon?
Lots of the focus of the overhaul was the equipment and bodyshells.

 

[Southsider]

Scotrail will have a large surplus of stock in about 18 months time so no need to keep less than ideal stock. My local service uses 314s and they are tired rattlely old things that have had their day.

2+2 seating, Wi-Fi, toilets, charging sockets etc are all things expected by modern commuters and the 385s will be a huge step up in quality. Personally I can't wait to see them go.

I agree entirely. They have served their purpose well and are done - time to scrap them and move forward without inflicting them on another franchise. I would have supported keeping them as a stopgap had East Kilbride been electrified with no immediately available rolling stock but that hasn't happened and presumably Shotts is catered for.

 

[Altnabreac]

I agree entirely. They have served their purpose well and are done - time to scrap them and move forward without inflicting them on another franchise. I would have supported keeping them as a stopgap had East Kilbride been electrified with no immediately available rolling stock but that hasn't happened and presumably Shotts is catered for.

Shotts EMU requirement is planned for in the current 385 order. EK is obviously not yet committed electrification but the assumption is it would be covered by the optional order of 10 extra 385s or an additional follow up order of 385s if all those 10 were all needed for service strengthening elsewhere.

 

[sdrennan]

I must confess I am looking forward to the 314s going. When Paisley Canal line was electrified they promised better trains (380) however majority are 314. Compared to 156 they have no toilet and are colder due to 1/3,2/3 doors which are left open at terminal stations

 

[route101]

As a passenger the 314s are basic , would be a downgrade for the EK line .The seating layout is awkward to! Only suitable for short journeys .

 

[adrock1976]

Also remember that the Class 314s were introduced in 1979, which coincided with the reopening of the section of the Glasgow Central Railway between Rutherglen and Finnieston, and were designed for that route.

Over time, the Class 314s have become the workhorses of the electrified routes around Glasgow - similar as how the Class 455s have become the workhorses of the local all stations services south of the mighty Thames.

In 2019, the Class 314s will have reached 40 years in service, which is the operational lifespan of what was intended. As they are seeing out their twilight years mainly on the Cathcart District Railway, and the remnants of the Lanarkshire & Ayrshire Railway between Neilston and Newton, combined with the route having been electrified in 1960 and due for replacement (as it will be 60 years in 2020 of the OHLE having been installed), maybe now is the time to consider the possibility of converting the CDR and Newton - Neilston to tram operation?

By converting to tram operation, a couple of slight deviations could be made from the original formation. The first one could deviate onto a new alignment between Pollokshields West and north of the mighty Clyde so as to serve West Street underground station, with the second deviation leaving at Whitecraigs to run along the main Ayr Road to Mearns Cross, then swing down Barrhead Road to Crookfur, then rejoin the original formation at Patterton.

On a final point, by converting a conventional rail route to tram operation, Glasgow would then be taking the lead from Sheffield, Manchester, Birmingham, Croydon, and Nottingham by bringing back trams to a large town or city in the proper manner. I am well aware Auld Reekie has a tram line, but I perceive that to be a New Labour vanity project that was not required at all, of which the Jack McConnell led government were not new at all, and were most certainly not Labour.

 

[D365]

Don't bother with a tram-train; just look at the farce that is the Supertram extension...

 

[Altnabreac]

Also remember that the Class 314s were introduced in 1979, which coincided with the reopening of the section of the Glasgow Central Railway between Rutherglen and Finnieston, and were designed for that route.

Over time, the Class 314s have become the workhorses of the electrified routes around Glasgow - similar as how the Class 455s have become the workhorses of the local all stations services south of the mighty Thames.

In 2019, the Class 314s will have reached 40 years in service, which is the operational lifespan of what was intended. As they are seeing out their twilight years mainly on the Cathcart District Railway, and the remnants of the Lanarkshire & Ayrshire Railway between Neilston and Newton, combined with the route having been electrified in 1960 and due for replacement (as it will be 60 years in 2020 of the OHLE having been installed), maybe now is the time to consider the possibility of converting the CDR and Newton - Neilston to tram operation?

By converting to tram operation, a couple of slight deviations could be made from the original formation. The first one could deviate onto a new alignment between Pollokshields West and north of the mighty Clyde so as to serve West Street underground station, with the second deviation leaving at Whitecraigs to run along the main Ayr Road to Mearns Cross, then swing down Barrhead Road to Crookfur, then rejoin the original formation at Patterton.

On a final point, by converting a conventional rail route to tram operation, Glasgow would then be taking the lead from Sheffield, Manchester, Birmingham, Croydon, and Nottingham by bringing back trams to a large town or city in the proper manner. I am well aware Auld Reekie has a tram line, but I perceive that to be a New Labour vanity project that was not required at all, of which the Jack McConnell led government were not new at all, and were most certainly not Labour.

There are the obvious issues of tram-trains being severely delayed down south and trams severely out of favour up north. That being said I wouldn't rule out a cross Glasgow tram train completely in the longer term.

However as far as the Mearns is concerned it's a non starter. You could possibly run a tram train up the Ayr Road to Mearns Cross but absolutely no way would you get one back down Crookfur Road, gradients, width and alignment are all unsuitable.

It would be a very expensive solution in an area which generally has high car ownership and people drive or walk to the stations currently from a fairly low density housing area.