ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[sannox]

People will return and use rail despite the issues of the rail network. At peak times the Glasgow-Edinburgh bus is timetabled for 1 hour 23 mins - this is 30 mins longer than the equivalent train.

If you are cost conscious (particularly if you are on free concession journeys like U22 and over 60) and don't mind the additional time or traffic delays that can happen then that's fine, but rail will have the advantage in speed and journey time reliability. There are of course exceptions to this (Wick - Inverness) but if you commute between Glasgow and Edinburgh the coach will see you giving up a lot more of your day.

 

[chuff chuff]

'Final' pay offer made,recommended for referendum of drivers by union.

 

[380101]

1 year deal offered today. 4.5% no strings attached. Recommended for acceptance by ASLEF.

suspect the temporary timetable will end soon.

 

[John Bishop]

1 year deal offered today. 4.5% no strings attached. Recommended for acceptance by ASLEF.

suspect the temporary timetable will end soon.

If only they’d come out with that in April, it would have saved so much hassle to so many people. Offering 2.5% knowing full well ASLEF were never going to accept that was just time wasting.

 

[43066]

Talking with the local bus drivers, they were very pleased, their pay rate has risen and there is lots of overtime. They claim to be earning more than Scotrail train drivers now and were very proud of this fact!

So bus drivers in Scotland have told you’re they’re earning £60k? I mean fair play to them if so, but that sounds unlikely, or must involve bordering-on-dangerous levels of overtime? Is that worth a thread in the Bus and Coach forum?

1 year deal offered today. 4.5% no strings attached. Recommended for acceptance by ASLEF.

suspect the temporary timetable will end soon.

If only they’d come out with that in April, it would have saved so much hassle to so many people. Offering 2.5% knowing full well ASLEF were never going to accept that was just time wasting.

Good news! A waste of everyones’ time - not least the long suffering passengers - not just doing this straight away really.

 

[chuff chuff]

If only they’d come out with that in April, it would have saved so much hassle to so many people. Offering 2.5% knowing full well ASLEF were never going to accept that was just time wasting.

That in spades,along with the time between meetings earlier on only to come back with the same offer but for another year or two on top,one might think it was deliberate.

 

[Deafdoggie]

So bus drivers in Scotland have told you’re they’re earning £60k? I mean fair play to them if so, but that sounds unlikely, or must involve bordering-on-dangerous levels of overtime? Is that worth a thread in the Bus and Coach forum?

I think it's heavily bonus based, but they'll take it whilst they can get it.

 

[Number5]

1 year deal offered today. 4.5% no strings attached. Recommended for acceptance by ASLEF.

suspect the temporary timetable will end soon.

Language (so far) from Aslef says recommended to go to ballot rather recommended acceptance in said ballot.

I'm wondering if it will go to ballot with no recommendation either way as the 4.5% is still below January RPI of 4.9%, which is the usual starting point for negotiations.

ASLEF Scotland tweet does say they are happy to have reached agreement on the matter right enough.

 

[380101]

Language (so far) from Aslef says recommended to go to ballot rather recommended acceptance in said ballot.

I'm wondering if it will go to ballot with no recommendation either way as the 4.5% is still below January RPI of 4.9%, which is the usual starting point for negotiations.

ASLEF Scotland tweet does say they are happy to have reached agreement on the matter right enough.

It will have a recommendation to accept. Aslef EC will not put any deal out to referendum unless the relevant company council and Lead officer recommend acceptance.

I expect it got raised to 4.5% to match the 4.5% for 2024 that English TOCs have just been offered - with a recommendation to accept.

 

[320320]

I think it's heavily bonus based, but they'll take it whilst they can get it.

The latest scotrail offer will be accepted and a normal timetable will reinstated soon. Those bus drivers better get what they can before the demand dries up.

 

[David M]

Problem, not just for Scotrail, but for all train companies/unions is that this just postpones things for 9 or 10 months until we go through the same hassle again next year.
For all the nonsense spoken about Scotrail, pay has been dealt with much better up here than with other TOCs as there still haven't been any actual strikes (or not that I can recall).
Are England and Wales negotiating this year's or last year's pay award, as I've lost track (sic).
I don't know what the solution is but it's not going to go away.

 

[Number5]

Problem, not just for Scotrail, but for all train companies/unions is that this just postpones things for 9 or 10 months until we go through the same hassle again next year.
For all the nonsense spoken about Scotrail, pay has been dealt with much better up here than with other TOCs as there still haven't been any actual strikes (or not that I can recall).
Are England and Wales negotiating this year's or last year's pay award, as I've lost track (sic).
I don't know what the solution is but it's not going to go away.

England/Wales settlement last week included 24/25 pay period as far as I'm aware.

 

[380101]

England/Wales settlement last week included 24/25 pay period as far as I'm aware.

England only. Rail is devolved in Wales, and they did a 3 year deal last year that will see their drivers on approx. £75K pa by April '25. (note that the Welsh deal with TfW saw significant changes to driver t&c including Sunday as part of the working week).

 

[Iamanoob]

Does this offer apply to general grade too?

 

[380101]

Does this offer apply to general grade too?

The offer was made to Aslef today for all driving grades.

No idea if RMT or TSSA were in for general grade talks today or not. RMT are usually quick off the mark sending info out to their members on pay, so if you are general grade, and haven't had any communication from RMT or TSSA on pay today, then it's fair to assume they have not had any offer made to them from ScotRail today.

 

[Iamanoob]

The offer was made to Aslef today for all driving grades.

No idea if RMT or TSSA were in for general grade talks today or not. RMT are usually quick off the mark sending info out to their members on pay, so if you are general grade, and haven't had any communication from RMT or TSSA on pay today, then it's fair to assume they have not had any offer made to them from ScotRail today.

Talks for drivers and general grades were both held today.

 

[Falcon1200]

Problem, not just for Scotrail, but for all train companies/unions is that this just postpones things for 9 or 10 months until we go through the same hassle again next year.

The lesson learned is simple, striking works.

There are still many, many Scotrail trains which were withdrawn with Covid still missing, what hope now is there for the full Edinburgh/Queen Street, Ayrshire or Barrhead & Kilmarnock services, for example, ever being restored? I do not share the complacent viewpoint that after being messed around by Scotrail, not for the first time in recent years, passengers will flock back to the railway as if nothing had happened.

 

[InOban]

The strange thing is that I can't find any mention of the settlement on any news media

 

[380101]

The strange thing is that I can't find any mention of the settlement on any news media

There's no requirement for it to be in the media. The only people that need to be informed are Aslef driver members in ScotRail - which has happened this afternoon.

But, all the same, it is highly unusual for it not to have been passed on to the media by now. I would have thought ScotRail would be desperate to tell all that they had negotiated an acceptable deal that can be put out to Aslef members for ballot.

 

[chuff chuff]

Yeah strange this time no requirement apparently to keep our gobs shut on the offer,though the council unions might not like their offer so much now.

 

[Number5]

Wee Jamie McIvor will no doubt pop up on Reporting Scotland with the breaking news.

 

[northscots]

The lesson learned is simple, striking works.

There are still many, many Scotrail trains which were withdrawn with Covid still missing, what hope now is there for the full Edinburgh/Queen Street, Ayrshire or Barrhead & Kilmarnock services, for example, ever being restored? I do not share the complacent viewpoint that after being messed around by Scotrail, not for the first time in recent years, passengers will flock back to the railway as if nothing had happened.

Striking does work but nobody went on strike. Thankfully it never went that far. As for pre-covid timetable, I don't think we will see that again anytime soon. These services ran at a loss then, they certainly won't bring them back when passenger numbers are even lower.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2024 ==

The offer was made to Aslef today for all driving grades.

No idea if RMT or TSSA were in for general grade talks today or not. RMT are usually quick off the mark sending info out to their members on pay, so if you are general grade, and haven't had any communication from RMT or TSSA on pay today, then it's fair to assume they have not had any offer made to them from ScotRail today.

I believe same percentage offered to RMT represented General Grades with some minor changes to T&Cs and a hiring freeze on some roles.

 

[Iamanoob]

Striking does work but nobody went on strike. Thankfully it never went that far. As for pre-covid timetable, I don't think we will see that again anytime soon. These services ran at a loss then, they certainly won't bring them back when passenger numbers are even lower.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2024 ==


Same percentage offered to RMT represented General Grades with some minor changes to T&Cs and a hiring freezer on some roles.

What were the roles being frozen and the T&C changes?

 

[northscots]

What were the roles being frozen and the T&C changes?

No details regarding roles being frozen, just says non-critical roles. T&C changes seem minor. Some changes to training time and and payroll management

 

[chuff chuff]

No details regarding roles being frozen, just says non-critical roles. T&C changes look minor. Some changes to training time and and payroll management

I believe in the previous offer they wanted to reduce guard training time and wanted to move the paylines issue from Tuesday to Wednesday.

 

[Number5]

Still nothing in the media.

Odd indeed.

 

[Scotrail84]

I believe in the previous offer they wanted to reduce guard training time and wanted to move the paylines issue from Tuesday to Wednesday.

How can they reduce it even more from what it currently is? Dissolving the grade even further?

 

[chuff chuff]

How can they reduce it even more from what it currently is? Dissolving the grade even further?

Don't think there was much detail but several of the guards mentioned it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As a passenger, I find all this talk of reducing training for key safety critical roles more than slightly concerning, both proposals from operators and assorted government. Think tanks fuelled by academics who either get on a train to commute to work, but pay no attention to it or more. Likely haven't been anywhere near a train for years. Trying to supposedly save money and time at the expense of what feels very much like customer safety from my point of view is another reason that, if widely found out about passengers might stay away from the system

 

[Falcon1200]

Striking does work but nobody went on strike. Thankfully it never went that far.

OK, but I doubt the passengers forcibly removed from the train at Edinburgh on Sunday would have known, or cared about, the difference between a strike and action short of a strike; The effect was the same, an utterly abysmal service for the customer.