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ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

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chuff chuff

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Until not so long ago, ASLEF published the pay and T&C for each TOC/FOC on the public-facing section of their website!

At least now it seems to require a login to access the details in the Members' Area.
Yeah I remember that but they weren't blabbing it the press and often out of date.It seemed to be all over the press when I dispute. I can remember quite a number of years ago on a radio Scotland show and a scotrail manager said it was fine for them to tell the press what drivers earned but refused to say what he earned.
 
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kkong

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I can remember quite a number of years ago on a radio Scotland show and a scotrail manager said it was fine for them to tell the press what drivers earned but refused to say what he earned.

The situations are a bit different.

Because of the collective bargaining, all drivers at a TOC (of the same grade, where applicable) will be paid the same.

Whereas in most private sector businesses, employees are paid what they negotiate for themselves, based on their performance, experience, etc.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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So they have to bring their costs inline. They don't have a money tree, they can't throw endless money at it. The only other option is to bring costs in line with what they can afford. If that means cuts and putting people off, it's okay. It's business. But appear to be arguing this is the case & yet also total incompetence. But it's really only one or the other. I'd much rather it was a business choice, but the forum seem to think it's total unbelievable incompetence, which is much more of a worry.
The problem with that strategy is your paying NR to run the network for a bigger service level whether you use it or not along with a high level of fixed cost in ScotRail operations means to save a few percent means will result in significant cutback in actual services run. This would be madness and just saddles Scottish taxpayers with an even higher burden for little benefit. This is how BR was targeted from 70's into early 80's until Bob Reid came into play and made the simple connection that actually running a service that people want to use was the best way to reduce the deficit/subsidy. Franchising gave that incentive to the operators and a commercial imperative to maintain good industrial relations until the Scottish govt started meddling things went along pretty well. Now we have the worst of all worlds with ScotRail run by outsiders being overseen by TfS and MSPs targeting headline payrises without seeing the bigger picture. The SNP also now have different priorities the main one trying to stay in power and that means tackling the stuff that matters to most of the Scottish electorate and that isn't the railways.
 

Deafdoggie

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The problem with that strategy is your paying NR to run the network for a bigger service level whether you use it or not along with a high level of fixed cost in ScotRail operations means to save a few percent means will result in significant cutback in actual services run. This would be madness and just saddles Scottish taxpayers with an even higher burden for little benefit. This is how BR was targeted from 70's into early 80's until Bob Reid came into play and made the simple connection that actually running a service that people want to use was the best way to reduce the deficit/subsidy. Franchising gave that incentive to the operators and a commercial imperative to maintain good industrial relations until the Scottish govt started meddling things went along pretty well. Now we have the worst of all worlds with ScotRail run by outsiders being overseen by TfS and MSPs targeting headline payrises without seeing the bigger picture. The SNP also now have different priorities the main one trying to stay in power and that means tackling the stuff that matters to most of the Scottish electorate and that isn't the railways.
Ultimately, assuming nothing else changes, Scotrail will ask NR to reduce charges or they'll start closing lines. At the moment, any cost saving is a cost saving. Like all employers, the wage bill is the biggest expense, controlling that is key. Do you get enough extra income to justify the extra expense is a sum accountants will be working out.
 

Deafdoggie

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You do like your conspiracy theories, don't you? They will do nothing of the sort. It would be totally politically untenable to do so.
I just find it so hard to believe that they are so totally incompetent. But everyone here says they are, so I'll go with that instead of thinking they actual have just a bit of business sense.

I am truly staggered at their incompetence. And every dealing I have with them is more incompetent than the last. But apparently it is total and utterly incompetence of the highest order
 

Nicholas Lewis

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You do like your conspiracy theories, don't you? They will do nothing of the sort. It would be totally politically untenable to do so.
closing lines for sure but not unreasonable to discuss with NR reducing costs although that ultimately need political will to override CP7 settlement
 

Carntyne

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We could try collecting revenue, using the staff we have. It's a bold move, but taking fares off passengers might help matters..
 

Devon Sunset

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We could try collecting revenue, using the staff we have. It's a bold move, but taking fares off passengers might help matters..
That sort of thinking is dangerous and will get you nowhere! The public will revolt and complain to their MSP’s who will demand an explanation. The use of crayons is optional.
 
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We could try collecting revenue, using the staff we have. It's a bold move, but taking fares off passengers might help matters..
Was on a service from Waverley platform 20 yesterday. No revenue protection on the platform, but no big deal...
Except there was no tickets checked the entire journey to Leven. Granted most passengers would have had a return ticket at that time, but there's money just being given away.
 

GLC

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We could try collecting revenue, using the staff we have. It's a bold move, but taking fares off passengers might help matters..
There is an argument that Scotrail tried to do exactly that, and the staff’s union organised a strike in response until Scotrail acquiesced
 

Sealink

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One thing, which doesn't warrant it's own thread (or does it)…?

ScotRail have a big heading on their website called Digital Tickets, waxing lyrical about e-tickets etc.

I've booked two ScotRail journeys plus 2x South Western Railway, 1x LNER, 2 x Citylink and also 1 x Sleeper, everyone is an e ticket except ScotRail where I gave to pick up paper tickets. These are ScotRail only tickets too.
Even my hotel is providing a digital key via their app.
I'm wondering why ScotRail aren't providing e-tickets.
 
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najaB

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I'm wondering why ScotRail aren't providing e-tickets.
My guess is because they went heavily down the smartcard route, all stations are equipped with readers and they have some smartcard-only fares (or at least I'm 99% sure they do).
 

Peter0124

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I'm wondering why ScotRail aren't providing e-tickets.
My guess is because they went heavily down the smartcard route, all stations are equipped with readers and they have some smartcard-only fares (or at least I'm 99% sure they do).
I remember tweeting them about this and they told me they wanted to keep the m-tickets on the app due to fraud concerns with traditional e-tickets.
 

Sealink

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I remember tweeting them about this and they told me they wanted to keep the m-tickets on the app due to fraud concerns with traditional e-tickets.

That makes sense. A peculiarly Scottish fraud, that doesn't affect LNER, Caledonian Sleeper etc.? :D
 

northscots

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One thing, which doesn't warrant it's own thread (or does it)…?

ScotRail have a big heading on their website called Digital Tickets, waxing lyrical about e-tickets etc.

I've booked two ScotRail journeys plus 2x South Western Railway, 1x LNER, 2 x Citylink and also 1 x Sleeper, everyone is an e ticket except ScotRail where I gave to pick up paper tickets. These are ScotRail only tickets too.
Even my hotel is providing a digital key via their app.
I'm wondering why ScotRail aren't providing e-tickets.
Scotrail went down the M-ticket route rather than E-tickets on the premise of fraud prevention.
 

Peter0124

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Scotrail went down the M-ticket route rather than E-tickets on the premise of fraud prevention.
Used to annoy me when I had access to NR priv and only way of buying was via the RST website, and Scotrail forced to collect from a TVM whereas most other operators it was an e-ticket. No doubt because of that m-ticket thing
 
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ld0595

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17:41 Aberdeen to Glasgow is a 2 car 158. Bet thats cozy.
The 15:30 Aberdeen to Glasgow was a Turbostar yesterday. Fine enough in normal times but not when you've only got five trains travelling between the two cities in one day.There were countless rakes of HSTs sitting idle at the yards in Aberdeen, Dundee, Cadder and Eastfield however...

We were absolutely rammed for the rest of the journey by the time we reached Dundee and picked up enough of a delay that I missed my train to the south side. Ended up taking a taxi home since I wasn't prepared to wait an hour for the next one.

Yes it's better than no service at all, especially given the 15:30 was cancelled in recent weeks, but there doesn't seem to be any effort being made to strengthen services. All services between Glasgow and Aberdeen yesterday were just Turbostars.

Won't be making that mistake again!
 

Retorus

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Bit of a nightmare on the Kilmarnock line tonight. Mysterious broken down train stuck for hours, coaches turning up at stations then leaving without letting any passengers board. What happened?
 

Scotrail84

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The 15:30 Aberdeen to Glasgow was a Turbostar yesterday. Fine enough in normal times but not when you've only got five trains travelling between the two cities in one day.There were countless rakes of HSTs sitting idle at the yards in Aberdeen, Dundee, Cadder and Eastfield however...

We were absolutely rammed for the rest of the journey by the time we reached Dundee and picked up enough of a delay that I missed my train to the south side. Ended up taking a taxi home since I wasn't prepared to wait an hour for the next one.

Yes it's better than no service at all, especially given the 15:30 was cancelled in recent weeks, but there doesn't seem to be any effort being made to strengthen services. All services between Glasgow and Aberdeen yesterday were just Turbostars.

Won't be making that mistake again!
The probably would love to use the 'idle' HSTs but they probably don't have drivers diagrammed to shunt them and with drivers doing booked work only theres no way of moving them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Gearbox fire on a 156.

You're a man in the know, was there nothing suitable to swap that 158 at Aberdeen? A 2 car to Glasgow is a shocker. o_O
 
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The probably would love to use the 'idle' HSTs but they probably don't have drivers diagrammed to shunt them and with drivers doing booked work only theres no way of moving them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



You're a man in the know, was there nothing suitable to swap that 158 at Aberdeen? A 2 car to Glasgow is a shocker. o_O

Having not been around at that time of the day I won't be drawn in to comment without knowing all the circumstances at the time.
 

hexagon789

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You're a man in the know, was there nothing suitable to swap that 158 at Aberdeen? A 2 car to Glasgow is a shocker.
Given they managed to swap an HST from an Aberdeen to Inverness to work 1B30 1248 to Edinburgh so it could go HST as booked and the 1733 Edinburgh to Inverness instead of both bring a 158 (which went on the Inverness to Aberdeen instead), they do if they can in my experience.

I think Aberdeen was already short of HSTs/170s from yesterday based on the formations I saw on RTT, hence the morning turn that forms 1B30 off Inverness being a 158 instead of HST; so presumably there was nothing else bar the 158 to go to Glasgow.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there always seems to be more substitutions on a Monday currently than the other weekdays, presumably because it follows Sunday and Sunday is one of the worst days for general operations at the moment, so various services get subbed on Suns, so the relevant trains aren't all in place for Monday, so Monday has several substitutions etc etc

That was my educated guesswork anyway...
 

InvHst

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Given they managed to swap an HST from an Aberdeen to Inverness to work 1B30 1248 to Edinburgh so it could go HST as booked and the 1733 Edinburgh to Inverness instead of both bring a 158 (which went on the Inverness to Aberdeen instead), they do if they can in my experience.

I think Aberdeen was already short of HSTs/170s from yesterday based on the formations I saw on RTT, hence the morning turn that forms 1B30 off Inverness being a 158 instead of HST; so presumably there was nothing else bar the 158 to go to Glasgow.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there always seems to be more substitutions on a Monday currently than the other weekdays, presumably because it follows Sunday and Sunday is one of the worst days for general operations at the moment, so various services get subbed on Suns, so the relevant trains aren't all in place for Monday, so Monday has several substitutions etc etc

That was my educated guesswork anyway...

Your correct regarding Monday being more swaps Sundays are very hit and miss regarding coverage of hst diagrams. On this temporary timetable theirs less 170s at each of Inverness and Aberdeen so if something fails then whatever available swaps in. The decision at lunchtime to swap the hst on H09 back to B30 made the most sense as B30 is one of the busiest services on Monday and Aberdeen managed to gain a hst off Inverness on the 1801 vice the usual 170. You'll find this temporary timetable will throw weird and wonderful workings to balance each location where they can
 
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