ScotRail alcohol ban: what should be the policy?

[kkong]

I can't help but wonder why it isn't immediate - or did they create a new Bylaw for it that requires process to repeal? If they did, they could just state they won't enforce it from now on.

The working group said it should be "by" 2nd June" rather than "on" 2nd June.

In any case, ScotRail's MD already confirmed on 29th April that they don't (and can't) enforce the ban (see post #55) and it is routinely ignored anyway.

AFAIK, there was never any bylaw amendment made, so there is nothing to repeal.

The on-board announcements about the "ban" were becoming less and less frequent over the years and I assume they have now been stopped.

 

[Indigo Soup]

The on-board announcements about the "ban" were becoming less and less frequent over the years and I assume they have now been stopped.

There's at least one guard who's been making announcements to the effect of 'there's allegedly a ban, so don't let me catch you'.

 

[380101]

Exactly, and it remains to be seen if the refreshment trolleys on ScotRail trains start selling alcohol products again such as beer, wine and whisky from that date.

They plan to reintroduce alcohol sales on the trolleys over the summer. Onboard hospitality staff will require additional training beforehand - presumably on the alcohol Licensing regulations.

 

[GusB]

They plan to reintroduce alcohol sales on the trolleys over the summer. Onboard hospitality staff will require additional training beforehand - presumably on the alcohol Licensing regulations.

Anyone retailing alcohol in Scotland must do a training course on the licensing regulations. It has been a while since I had to train retail staff on alcohol sales but at the time the course was supposed to take two hours. The training course goes on record and if there is ever an issue with someone failing a compliance check, questions may be asked.

Individual staff can be liable if they don't follow the rules and those doing the training should also be worried.

It's not just a case of "yay, we can sell booze now".

 

[kkong]

Anyone retailing alcohol in Scotland must do a training course on the licensing regulations. It has been a while since I had to train retail staff on alcohol sales but at the time the course was supposed to take two hours. The training course goes on record and if there is ever an issue with someone failing a compliance check, questions may be asked.

Individual staff can be liable if they don't follow the rules and those doing the training should also be worried.

It's not just a case of "yay, we can sell booze now".

But is is a requirement to receive training for the sale of alcohol on trains in Scotland?

Trains (while engaged on a journey) are exempt premises; see Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 s.1 and s.124 (1) (c).

That's not to say there aren't good reasons to train staff on the sale of alcohol on board trains, but is it a legal requirement?

 

[Tester]

The on-board announcements about the "ban" were becoming less and less frequent over the years and I assume they have now been stopped.

I was amused to be advised of the alcohol ban on the 0457 from Dumfries to Carlisle yesterday.

 

[AY1975]

But is is a requirement to receive training for the sale of alcohol on trains in Scotland?

Trains (while engaged on a journey) are exempt premises; see Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 s.1 and s.124 (1) (c).

That's not to say there aren't good reasons to train staff on the sale of alcohol on board trains, but is it a legal requirement?

AIUI trains are exempt from things like restrictions on what hours they can sell alcohol, and you don't need a licence to sell alcohol on a train unlike on fixed premises, but I would presume that they are still subject to some laws such as only being allowed to sell to over-18s. As such, catering staff will presumably need to be trained to ask someone for ID if they ask for something alcoholic and look under 25.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

AIUI trains are exempt from things like restrictions on what hours they can sell alcohol, and you don't need a licence to sell alcohol on a train unlike on fixed premises, but I would presume that they are still subject to some laws such as only being allowed to sell to over-18s. As such, catering staff will presumably need to be trained to ask someone for ID if they ask for something alcoholic and look under 25.

This was in English Common Law (ie England and Wales) rather than Scottish law, but when drinking was illegal in much of Wales on the sabbath, the 'bona fide traveller' exemption was a real money spinner for lines like the Ffestiniog and the VoR. When Cardiff went 'wet' in the early 1960s, an early casualty was the Cardiff-Weston ferry which made much of its money from Sunday 'booze cruises'.

 

[kkong]

I would presume that they are still subject to some laws such as only being allowed to sell to over-18s. As such, catering staff will presumably need to be trained to ask someone for ID if they ask for something alcoholic and look under 25.

So that should take about 5 minutes per staff member, given the requirement in the Act for verification of the purchaser being age 18 is:

to be shown any of the documents mentioned below, and that document would have convinced a reasonable person:

• a passport,
• a UK driving licence,
• a European Union photocard driving licence, or
• such other document, or a document of such other description, as may be prescribed.

It's worth noting that the "Challenge 25" requirement only applies to licensed premises and is therefore not applicable to trains.

 

[BlueLeanie]

So that should take about 5 minutes per staff member, given the requirement in the Act for verification of the purchaser being age 18 is:

Five minutes is a long time in customer service. Given the that most 18-25 year olds are accustomed to be asked for ID, they will generally have it to hand. Five seconds is more like it.

 

[kkong]

Five minutes is a long time in customer service. Given the that most 18-25 year olds are accustomed to be asked for ID, they will generally have it to hand. Five seconds is more like it.

I meant the training for the staff should take about 5 minutes.

But this being the rail industry, it'll probably be a whole day course, to be attended in person, in Glasgow.

 

[Trainbike46]

I meant the training for the staff should take about 5 minutes.

But this being the rail industry, it'll probably be a whole day course, to be attended in person, in Glasgow.

When I worked on a (non-uk) railway, and sold alcohol, I wasn't trained in ID'ing people at all. I was trained in how to safely operate deep-frying equipment though (I worked on trains, there were no friers, and never had been)

 

[dk1]

I meant the training for the staff should take about 5 minutes.

But this being the rail industry, it'll probably be a whole day course, to be attended in person, in Glasgow.

As drivers we are happy to accept a rest day working payment to glance at new procedures from home

Catering will probably be a one day conversion as you say. Shame it’s not with overnight accommodation.

 

[kkong]

Alcohol is once again being retailed by the ScotRail on-board trolleys - at least on the HSTs.