Scotrail 334004 to Wolverton?

[Peter0124]

Anyone know why 334004 will be ferried from Yoker to Wolverton tonight? Unit number data from Railcam.

Realtime Trains | 7Q70 2223 Yoker C.S. to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 10/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 7Q70 2223 departure from Yoker C.S. to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 10/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[duffman82]

For Refurbishment

 

[Peter0124]

For Refurbishment

Is it just that particular unit or will all of them follow suit?

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Is it just that particular unit or will all of them follow suit?

Believed to be the first of 8. 004 is to be there for at least 4 months.

 

[D6130]

Anyone know why 334004 will be ferried from Yoker to Wolverton tonight? Unit number data from Railcam.

Realtime Trains | 7Q70 2223 Yoker C.S. to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 10/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 7Q70 2223 departure from Yoker C.S. to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 10/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

....and why is it running as class 7 (maximum speed 45 mph)? Gauging issues?

 

[DarloRich]

....and why is it running as class 7 (maximum speed 45 mph)? Gauging issues?

i doubt they have run on the WCML south very often

 

[Mag_seven]

....and why is it running as class 7 (maximum speed 45 mph)? Gauging issues?

If it had gauging issues it would have an "X" headcode.

 

[D6130]

If it had gauging issues it would have an "X" headcode.

That's what I was thinking....so why isn't it running as a class 5, I wonder?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

That's what I was thinking....so why isn't it running as a class 5, I wonder?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

Just realised.... it's because the unit has automatic couplers, so a temporary air pipe has to be run through it from one barrier vehicle to the other. Therefore only the two locos and the two barriers are braked....hence the unit is running as a 'swinger'.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Wasn't aware that there was refurbishment planned for these and why only such a small number? Are they refurbishing a specific pool for a specific job?

 

[SC318250]

334004 there for welding works

 

[gingertom]

just wondering why an EMU had to be dragged practically the whole length of the electrified WCML under the wires, when it could have panned up and been driven on its own? What am I missing?

 

[31160]

just wondering why an EMU had to be dragged practically the whole length of the electrified WCML under the wires, when it could have panned up and been driven on its own? What am I missing?

Modern railway isn't it

 

[D6130]

just wondering why an EMU had to be dragged practically the whole length of the electrified WCML under the wires, when it could have panned up and been driven on its own? What am I missing?

Drivers' traction knowledge issues perhaps?

 

[Falcon1200]

Modern railway isn't it

It would have required a Scotrail Driver to traction conduct, or be route conducted, several hundred miles from Motherwell or at best Carstairs, to Wolverton (and then get back home) - And as per other threads, Scotrail is not exactly awash with Drivers just now!

 

[CR165022]

That's what I was thinking....so why isn't it running as a class 5, I wonder?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==


Just realised.... it's because the unit has automatic couplers, so a temporary air pipe has to be run through it from one barrier vehicle to the other. Therefore only the two locos and the two barriers are braked....hence the unit is running as a 'swinger'.

I know it might not be the same, however with the 458s that are being dragged around at the moment, they are able to be dragged normally and as a class 5, surely a 334 wouldn't need to be any different?

 

[SansHache]

just wondering why an EMU had to be dragged practically the whole length of the electrified WCML under the wires, when it could have panned up and been driven on its own? What am I missing?

Demonstration of electromagnetic compatibility with the WCML signalling systems and infrastructure. Almost certainly unlikely to be an issue as much of the Traction system design is common with Class 390, but it takes a lot of engineering effort to verify that.

 

[Peter0124]

The 318 / 320 fleet did venture to Doncaster (ECML) under their own power so it's not completely unknown to Scotrail

 

[Northerngirl]

Demonstration of electromagnetic compatibility with the WCML signalling systems and infrastructure. Almost certainly unlikely to be an issue as much of the Traction system design is common with Class 390, but it takes a lot of engineering effort to verify that.

Why does our rail infrastructure seem to be unable to be looked at the wrong way without needing a decade of testing. It seems so overly cautious

 

[SC318250]

Slightly off topic here but related

scotrail drivers didnt move the Class 318/320 from Shields to Doncaster, it was GBrF drivers
I suspect there are not many drivers outwith Scotrail who will sign Class 334, where as with the Class 318/320 they would probably be a short conversion course from Class 319/321, if any of the GBrF drivers were passed don them

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Slightly off topic here but related

scotrail drivers didnt move the Class 318/320 from Shields to Doncaster, it was GBrF drivers
I suspect there are not many drivers outwith Scotrail who will sign Class 334, where as with the Class 318/320 they would probably be a short conversion course from Class 319/321, if any of the GBrF drivers were passed don them

Usually for contracts which involve large fleets or regular moves; it's not unknown for the contractor Driver to come to the TOC for a traction training course.

 

[gingertom]

Usually for contracts which involve large fleets or regular moves; it's not unknown for the contractor Driver to come to the TOC for a traction training course.

does it look like this was a one-off then, so no point undergoing the training?

 

[Geeves]

There was a post earlier that said ten units for welding work? To be fair as others have said sometimes it easier just dragging units Vs all the work to drive them directly. Interesting work for someone how ever it's done!

 

[Dfatcontroller]

does it look like this was a one-off then, so no point undergoing the training?

This unit is going to be at Wolverton for at least 4 months. Only 8 of the 40 sets to undertake the work at the moment.
Probably cheaper, and easier, to drag, than to find the same Driver every time a 334 needed to be moved.

 

[D365]

Why does our rail infrastructure seem to be unable to be looked at the wrong way without needing a decade of testing. It seems so overly cautious

I don’t know what your ”decade of testing” statement is based on. But if you consider the hazards that are created by false feeding of signals and track circuits, I don’t see on what grounds one can dismiss the requirement for technical due diligence.

 

[Bill57p9]

Why does our rail infrastructure seem to be unable to be looked at the wrong way without needing a decade of testing. It seems so overly cautious

It may appear overly cautious, however the expectation is to err on the side of caution: we have to prove it to be safe, rather than not knowingly unsafe.

Winging it is fine until it isn’t, at which point all hell breaks loose.

And as a result we have statistically the safest railway in the world, however I do agree that there could be a better approach which would provide sufficient confidence for this sort of move, such as some sort of baseline homologation for major classes and routes.

 

[Northerngirl]

I don’t know what your ”decade of testing” statement is based on. But if you consider the hazards that are created by false feeding of signals and track circuits, I don’t see on what grounds one can dismiss the requirement for technical due diligence.

But how is it even possible that one train can have such a different effect than another surly they are biult to a standard, it's madness

 

[CBlue]

But how is it even possible that one train can have such a different effect than another surly they are biult to a standard, it's madness

Admittedly my background isn't railway (robotics engineer) but I can tell you that trying to govern "everything" in a given field (electronic components for example) to one standard is almost impossible! Trying to create a new standard also isn't the solution - with thanks to XKCD:

An example of this is USB-C and its plethora of different types all using the same connector but with different behaviours.

Some of the signalling kit on the WCML for example may be rather early generation and could be susceptible to interference generated by a 334, given no other EMU's of that type ever run that route there has never been any point getting them or something similar cleared. Traction packages for example will generate "noise" that could cause issues.

From posts on here before it would likely cost far more to clear the route for the "one-off" move rather than the simpler option of getting it dragged behind a loco. The same argument usually applies when railway vehicles are transported by road.

Hyperbole about "ten years of testing" not withstanding, none of this is ever as simple as people like to believe.....

 

[computerSaysNo]

I really like the sound of the 334s at 90-100mph (shush! ); I would love to experience a 334 or similar going down the West Coast Mainline under its own power!

 

[Carntyne]

Is it not simply cheaper and easier to drag it as a swinger, than training a driver on a 334 for not much benefit?

A rare example of the railway doing the right thing and not overcomplicating it.

 

[theblackwatch]

Can anyone confirm the reason for its visit to Wolverton please? We've had one post on here saying refurbishment and another saying welding works. I'm inclined to think the latter is correct.