Scotfail

[ayrshire_voyager]

A wee bit of snow and some cold weather and everything grinds to a halt. However the crowning glory is the "communications" process. Was waiting for the 11:12 to Kilmarnock, naturally it was late. We were told that carriages for this service would arrive in 5 mins ( train was already 10 mins late).......no sign of carriages. Then suddenly........ train cancelled. Are we being lied to ?

 

[rail-britain]

No, this is very common now
It was like this in the late 1980s and I don't see any difference now

The only trains that would run on the GSW were the loco hauled ones; the DMUs and eventually sprinters were almost always cancelled at short notice

 

[route101]

No, this is very common now
It was like this in the late 1980s and I don't see any difference now

The only trains that would run on the GSW were the loco hauled ones; the DMUs and eventually sprinters were almost always cancelled at short notice

How are the Queen st to edinburgh shuttles doing ?

 

[Aictos]

How are the Queen st to edinburgh shuttles doing ?

Well a emergency timetable was in place yesterday due to the 170s failing left right and centre, trains were leaving Edinburgh at xx15 and xx45 and Glasgow at xx00 and xx30 not only that but the trains were rammed full and standing.

I don't know if it's still in operation today but yesterday, First Scotrail really ought to have had longer trains on that route and also the route to Glasgow Centre as that was quite busy as well but I guess it wasn't possible.

Still, despite the fact that the staff were busy with the disruption ie the Queen Streets being cancelled and engineering work meaning coaches being used for the booked engineering works, I think they did a reasonable job under the circumstances.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well a emergency timetable was in place yesterday due to the 170s failing left right and centre, trains were leaving Edinburgh at xx15 and xx45 and Glasgow at xx00 and xx30 not only that but the trains were rammed full and standing.

I don't know if it's still in operation today but yesterday, First Scotrail really ought to have had longer trains on that route and also the route to Glasgow Centre as that was quite busy as well but I guess it wasn't possible.

Still, despite the fact that the staff were busy with the disruption ie the Queen Streets being cancelled and engineering work meaning coaches being used for the booked engineering works, I think they did a reasonable job under the circumstances.

I would have to disagree with your comment about a reasonable job in the circumstances. There wasn't much snow in the central belt yesterday! If they can't cope with that amount god help them on Monday!

 

[Aictos]

I would have to disagree with your comment about a reasonable job in the circumstances. There wasn't much snow in the central belt yesterday! If they can't cope with that amount god help them on Monday!

By a reasonable job, I meant with the lack of information that the staff on the barriers seem to have, they did pretty good.

 

[scotsman]

it was worse in Perth

I got off 1T99 (1451 INV-GLQ) at Perth, having missed my connection for Fife at 1700. Was told to get 1800. Boarded it at 1756 (when it arrived), sat for over 20mins before my made checked the LDB page on his phone - Cancelled!

Was offered a cab by the manager, as were the rest of the pax. I refused (not after they did 94mph over Drumochter last year!) and got the delayed 1909 (left 1953).

Complete communication breakdown on the train, we informed 2 other passengers who 'evacuated' the train.

Kudos, however, to the Guard of 1T99 who kept us informed and tried to organise connections for the passengers for Edinburgh as much as possible.

 

[rail-britain]

First Scotrail really ought to have had longer trains on that route

The maximum train length is a pair of Class 170, and this is what is normally used when the contigency timetable is applied

 

[Failed Unit]

By a reasonable job, I meant with the lack of information that the staff on the barriers seem to have, they did pretty good.

Fair enough. I was just thinking there were a lot of 170s and 158s sat in Haymarket. Yes some were on maintenance but some were spare. The 170s and snow don't get on. Last year the 158s took over the highland mainline in the snow.

 

[rail-britain]

This is all too common
I suspect information overload and the staff wanting to make sure a service is indeed cancelled, even though a set and the crew have turned up or are on an incoming service that is already late and/or a replacement crew cannot be found

 

[Aictos]

The maximum train length is a pair of Class 170, and this is what is normally used when the contigency timetable is applied

But the fact is regardless of the disruption, services were turning up formed of single 170s, I only saw one pair which failed resulting in being cancelled.

Obviously because of the engineering works, the services that were working between Glasgow and Edinburgh should have been strengthened because of the larger flow of passengers, it's only common sense.

Fair enough. I was just thinking there were a lot of 170s and 158s sat in Haymarket. Yes some were on maintenance but some were spare. The 170s and snow don't get on. Last year the 158s took over the highland mainline in the snow.

Well if there was a lot of units sat at Haymarket, then why not double up them and use them on the emergency timetable as it would have helped with the overcrowding on the trains/platforms, obviously not the ones there for maintenance.

 

[MCR247]

Lack of traincrew?

 

[route:oxford]

To be fair...

The M9 was closed north of Craigforth earlier this morning, it's now re-opened to the keir roundabout.

The A9 is closed between Blackford and Gleneagles, although was closed from the Queen Victoria School, Dunblane earlier.

It's really unusual to have this volume of snow in Central Scotland in November.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

"Scotfail". What an utterly ghastly term.

However, it really is indeed a very useful reference tool. Whenever you encounter someone actually using it, you can pretty much disregard whatever they have to say.

Typical Scotrail. Causing disruptions on purpose, not pleasing every single little person. If I were any kind of rational man, I would perhaps assume some sort of chain of cause and effect, rather than "rahh! me have pay fare! one flake snow! shareholders! **** up brewery etc!".

I very much suspect that every single member of staff was doing their very upmost with the resources that they had, rather than as the term "Scotfail" suggests, sitting around eating chocolate biccies and buggering off home at half past five as if they work in a Virgin Media call center.

 

[CarterUSM]

A wee bit of snow and some cold weather and everything grinds to a halt. However the crowning glory is the "communications" process. Was waiting for the 11:12 to Kilmarnock, naturally it was late. We were told that carriages for this service would arrive in 5 mins ( train was already 10 mins late).......no sign of carriages. Then suddenly........ train cancelled. Are we being lied to ?

No , of course your not being lied to, but the problem of filtering accurate information to passengers is still a problem, lets be honest, if a Kilmarnock service is going to end up more than 10 min late departing, then i'd usually bet the mortgage on it not going at all. Yesterday, pathing was a little more tight than normal with voyagers using the sou'west as well. It is little consolation, but at least there is two services per hour nowadays, thereby leaving not to great a gap for the next.

 

[EM2]

I would *love* every single person, who complains about lack of information at a station, to do one shift 'on the floor' and one in Control, but both have to be during a major disruption.

 

[tbtc]

To be fair...

The M9 was closed north of Craigforth earlier this morning, it's now re-opened to the keir roundabout.

The A9 is closed between Blackford and Gleneagles, although was closed from the Queen Victoria School, Dunblane earlier

...meaning extra people on the railways, but you never hear of the roads being criticised for "grinding to a halt"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

By a reasonable job, I meant with the lack of information that the staff on the barriers seem to have, they did pretty good.

That's exactly it. The people at the sharp end, with precious little information, do a great job in horrible circumstances. Yet all I see on forums like this are "WMSR have wonderful staff, their customer service is fantastic" - it's the men and women on the front line for *all* TOCs on days like yesterday who deserve praise. It's not *their* fault, they don't necessarily know what's going on, yet they get loads of abuse.

Whenever there's any crash in horrible weather (e.g. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-leaves-schoolchildren-seriously-injured.html) people always say "why did they take a risk, why did they not turn back", yet whenever services are cancelled, people complain that "a wee bit of snow means everything grinds to a halt". Can't win.

 

[Greenback]

A wee bit of snow and some cold weather and everything grinds to a halt. However the crowning glory is the "communications" process. Was waiting for the 11:12 to Kilmarnock, naturally it was late. We were told that carriages for this service would arrive in 5 mins ( train was already 10 mins late).......no sign of carriages. Then suddenly........ train cancelled. Are we being lied to ?

It is reactions like this that make front line staff very reluctant to give any information out at all. Then they get criticised for not passing on information!

Honestly, I can't udnerstand why anyone might think theyw ere being deliberately lied to, rather than decisions being taken on a minute by minute basis in recognition of changing circumstances!

 

[kylemore]

what is it exactly that stops trains running in 2-3 ins of snow? What we had today is just a normal day in Switzerland or Southern Germany.
When I got to Central today there was a continual announcement saying basically go home, make other arrangements etc etc. I stayed on however and the 1300 to Ayr left more or less ontime and was only 5 late by Irvine.
Arse covering negativity when the message should have been "we're trying to run as many services as possible, bear with us we'll do our best to get you there". So sad

 

[MCR247]

Well, countries like Canada and Switzerland make preparations, whereas we don't

 

[LE Greys]

Decent snowploughs would help. Loco-haulage helps as well (especially if they break out the 37s).

I hope that the Highland stays open, I'm going skiing in Aviemore next weekend.

 

[Aictos]

what is it exactly that stops trains running in 2-3 ins of snow? What we had today is just a normal day in Switzerland or Southern Germany.
When I got to Central today there was a continual announcement saying basically go home, make other arrangements etc etc. I stayed on however and the 1300 to Ayr left more or less ontime and was only 5 late by Irvine.
Arse covering negativity when the message should have been "we're trying to run as many services as possible, bear with us we'll do our best to get you there". So sad

I'm sure the drivers here can explain it better then moi but part of the problem is snow getting sucked into the motors of a EMU for example which doesn't do any good for the motors.

 

[CarterUSM]

I'm sure the drivers here can explain it better then moi but part of the problem is snow getting sucked into the motors of a EMU for example which doesn't do any good for the motors.

That is more or less the case, but i cannot understand why this cannot be rectified one way or another, is there a solution to this?

 

[Eng274]

Fair enough. I was just thinking there were a lot of 170s and 158s sat in Haymarket. Yes some were on maintenance but some were spare. The 170s and snow don't get on. Last year the 158s took over the highland mainline in the snow.

Why do 170s and snow not get on?

I'd have thought that with there being very little electrical intervention in the drive system, they'd be fairly snow-proof. Unless of course the on-board electrics aren't snow-proof, which is a different kettle of fish!

 

[scotsman]

Why do 170s and snow not get on?

I'd have thought that with there being very little electrical intervention in the drive system, they'd be fairly snow-proof. Unless of course the on-board electrics aren't snow-proof, which is a different kettle of fish!

The onboard electrics are not snow proof! The couplers fill up with the stuff in blizzard, even with sacks covering them. Plus, it gets sucked in to the motors, I could smell smoke yesterday because of either snow in the a) electrics or b)the fans

 

[CarterUSM]

The onboard electrics are not snow proof! The couplers fill up with the stuff in blizzard, even with sacks covering them. Plus, it gets sucked in to the motors, I could smell smoke yesterday because of either snow in the a) electrics or b)the fans

I haven't even seen a snowbag yet....

 

[90019]

I haven't even seen a snowbag yet....

I think I've seen a couple so far.

 

[CarterUSM]

I think I've seen a couple so far.

Boom boom!

 

[90019]

Boom boom!

It took me a minute to work that one out after reading your post

 

[scotsman]

I haven't even seen a snowbag yet....

All in Inverness! A fitter put one on a 158 after chisling snow off the coupler!