Scot rail or Northern?

[Adam_Harrison]

I am confused, Recently I travelled from Windermere to Hartlepool and on the Carlisle - newcastle leg and Newcastle - Carlisle on the way back the Station boards said "Northern" but the train was a scotrail 156?

Could someone help me out.

Thanks

 

[sprinterguy]

You were on one of the Stranrear to Newcastle services then. These trains are crewed by Scotrail staff as far as Carlisle, and then Northern staff form the traincrew from Carlisle to Newcastle over the Tyne Valley Line, as these services sporadically run in the standard hourly frequency of the Newcastle-Carlisle trains, so are operated as Northern services during the English leg of the journey.

 

[Tugzrule]

Scotrail have, in effect 2 services a day to Newcastle and 3 from Newcastle - Glasgow central. These are advertised as being the services of the company whose area they are entering.
Also, two scotrail services from Dumfries to Carlisle are formed of northern units (they then go forward as separate services to Newcastle at 07:13 and 08:30 respectively)

 

[142094]

There aren't any Newcastle - Stranraer services anymore, they either go to Glasgow or Dumfries. I didn't realise that the Dumfries services used Northern stock, always thought Scotrail stock was used for all the workings.

 

[Ivo]

It's basically the same as on the Thameslink route. A number of services are run by both FCC and SE, with the changeover being in the central area.

You might get a journey from Sevenoaks to Bedford for instance, which is run by SE south of City Thameslink (I think ), and by FCC beyond to Bedford.

 

[sprinterguy]

There aren't any Newcastle - Stranraer services anymore, they either go to Glasgow or Dumfries. I didn't realise that the Dumfries services used Northern stock, always thought Scotrail stock was used for all the workings.

There's no more Stranrear services anymore? Well, that shows just how long it is since I last went back home to Sunderland!

Yeah, I'd heard the morning Dumfries services use Northern stock, always struck me as a bit unusual.

 

[route101]

Anyone know what Northern uses to Dumfries ? I once did see a Northern 156 in Glasgow once i think a unit had failed earlier.

 

[CarterUSM]

Anyone know what Northern uses to Dumfries ? I once did see a Northern 156 in Glasgow once i think a unit had failed earlier.

It should be a 156, never seen anything else anyway, i mind seeing (and working) a Northern 156 last year. Think it was a bridge strike down Carlisle way.

 

[Aictos]

It's basically the same as on the Thameslink route. A number of services are run by both FCC and SE, with the changeover being in the central area.

You might get a journey from Sevenoaks to Bedford for instance, which is run by SE south of City Thameslink (I think ), and by FCC beyond to Bedford.

The changeover point is actually Blackfriars but close enough anyway,

 

[Tugzrule]

Northern usually use 156's for their Dumfries services, however if they are feeling generous they will at times use 142's

 

[sprinterguy]

Northern usually use 156's for their Dumfries services, however if they are feeling generous they will at times use 142's

A 142 all the way from Dumfries to Newcastle? I bet that would be a "fun" ride! Surprised that 142s occasionally make it onto those turns, thought it must always be a 156 (but then again, I wasn't aware of the withdrawal of the Stranrear trains until yesterday). That must be the only time a Pacer operates in passenger service in Scotland!

 

[Tugzrule]

A 142 all the way from Dumfries to Newcastle? I bet that would be a "fun" ride!

It doesn't happen very often but those services are barely used anyway as far as I know. Might as well show the Scottish folk what they are missing!

 

[route101]

yep a pacer in scotland is a rare turn . Anyone remember the arriva 158s at glasgow? If there was paths on the wcml it would be a good idea to extend leeds to carlisles up to glasgow . Plenty of people seem to go that way plus its cheaper too
O

 

[142094]

Northern usually use 156's for their Dumfries services, however if they are feeling generous they will at times use 142's

In the past 10 - 15 years of spotting at Newcastle I can't say I've ever seen a 142 on a Scotland service, so it must be very rare indeed. I've seen 142s cover as far as Carlisle when a 156 has been caped for some reason or due to disruption. This leads to another question, are there any ScotRail guards and drivers who sign 142s?

 

[CarterUSM]

In the past 10 - 15 years of spotting at Newcastle I can't say I've ever seen a 142 on a Scotland service, so it must be very rare indeed. I've seen 142s cover as far as Carlisle when a 156 has been caped for some reason or due to disruption. This leads to another question, are there any ScotRail guards and drivers who sign 142s?

No, none at all as far as I am aware.

 

[Tugzrule]

from what i have seen some services on a Saturday, and probably the Northern services between Carlisle and Dumfries, are operated by Northern staff who would themselves sign 142's

 

[142094]

Was talking to a guard on a 142 a few weeks back and the furthest he can go is Carlisle, same for the driver. AFAIK Newcastle based drivers can go as far south as Darlington, to Saltburn, as far west as Carlisle and as far north as Chathill. Middlesbrough based drivers can do Whitby and Bishop Auckland and some others. I'd be very surprised if any Northern staff get as far as Dumfries or Glasgow, especially when you think that Northern would not get any money from Carlisle onwards.

 

[Bittern]

You were on one of the Stranrear to Newcastle services then.

No he wasn't. The train would've originated at Glasgow Central.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It should be a 156, never seen anything else anyway, i mind seeing (and working) a Northern 156 last year. Think it was a bridge strike down Carlisle way.

Yeah, I passed that 156 on a 314 at Muirhouse Junction.

Now, I've noted on the NR Enquiries site that there's a Northern Rail service that leaves Newcastle at 06:49 arriving in Glasgow Central at 10:37. At first I thought it's listed as Northern because that's who starts the service, but switches to ScotRail at Carlisle, so I checked departures for Carlisle for trains to Glasgow leaving after 8 am since the Northern service departs Carlisle at 08:15, but this showed the next ScotRail service being at 11:22.

So it appears the 06:49 is officially a Northern service to Glasgow, but am I correct in assuming this is uses a ScotRail 156?

 

[CarterUSM]

Was talking to a guard on a 142 a few weeks back and the furthest he can go is Carlisle, same for the driver. AFAIK Newcastle based drivers can go as far south as Darlington, to Saltburn, as far west as Carlisle and as far north as Chathill. Middlesbrough based drivers can do Whitby and Bishop Auckland and some others. I'd be very surprised if any Northern staff get as far as Dumfries or Glasgow, especially when you think that Northern would not get any money from Carlisle onwards.

The Carlisle based crews go as far as Dumfries, back in Norther Spirit days they went to Central too, but Dumfries wasn't open as a depot back then.

 

[sprinterguy]

Now, I've noted on the NR Enquiries site that there's a Northern Rail service that leaves Newcastle at 06:49 arriving in Glasgow Central at 10:37. At first I thought it's listed as Northern because that's who starts the service, but switches to ScotRail at Carlisle, so I checked departures for Carlisle for trains to Glasgow leaving after 8 am since the Northern service departs Carlisle at 08:15, but this showed the next ScotRail service being at 11:22.

So it appears the 06:49 is officially a Northern service to Glasgow, but am I correct in assuming this is uses a ScotRail 156?

It was always a Scotrail 156 when I used to use it regularly a couple of years back, I imagine that it still is.

 

[First class]

1S50 (06:49), 1S74 (13:24) and 1S73 (17:12), Newcastle - Glasgow Central are officially Northern services throughout, regardless of who they are staffed by and what unit(s) they use.


2N08 Dumfries - Newcastle via Carlisle is operated by Scotrail.
1E95 Glasgow Central - Newcastle via Carlisle is operated by Scotraill.
1E96 Glasgow Central - Newcastle via Carlisle is operated by Scotrail
1E97 Glasgow Central - Newcastle via Carlisle is operated by Scotrail

The Northern services are an interesting option for free travel to Glasgow for those with Merseyrail or Northern Rail staff passes... There's just no free option back!!

 

[Damien1986]

You were on one of the Stranrear to Newcastle services then. These trains are crewed by Scotrail staff as far as Carlisle, and then Northern staff form the traincrew from Carlisle to Newcastle over the Tyne Valley Line, as these services sporadically run in the standard hourly frequency of the Newcastle-Carlisle trains, so are operated as Northern services during the English leg of the journey.

So when the 1239 and 1711 Newcastle to Stranraer conveyed a trolley service,the trolley would have been provided by Northern staff?

 

[43167]

yep a pacer in scotland is a rare turn . Anyone remember the arriva 158s at glasgow? If there was paths on the wcml it would be a good idea to extend leeds to carlisles up to glasgow . Plenty of people seem to go that way plus its cheaper too
O

Yes. A poor reason given for it not going beyond Carlisle by the SRA (DFT under different name). The train will be a longway from its home depot if it breaks down.

 

[CarterUSM]

1S50 (06:49), 1S74 (13:24) and 1S73 (17:12), Newcastle - Glasgow Central are officially Northern services throughout, regardless of who they are staffed by and what unit(s) they use.

No they are not.

 

[transportphoto]

1S50 (06:49), 1S74 (13:24) and 1S73 (17:12), Newcastle - Glasgow Central are officially Northern services throughout, regardless of who they are staffed by and what unit(s) they use.

No they are not.

CarterUSM, can I ask your source for your claim that they are not Northern services?? As I have just checked using a internal source that the above headcodes are operated by NT, which they are.

 

[Maxfly]

well any time I speak to control about them for my patch they are scot rail services, as far as i understand it till they cross area borders they are either scot rail or northern and a pita as often late lol

 

[MCR247]

CarterUSM, can I ask your source for your claim that they are not Northern services?? As I have just checked using a internal source that the above headcodes are operated by NT, which they are.

Bare in mind I think (if I'm not getting him mixed with someone else, if so sorry!) he works for SR(?)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To be fair the service is isted on the live departure boards as NT throughout, but this may be due to limitations with the system.

If a 142 were used and the driver did not sign them, the driver could form a route conductor with a Northern driver at the controls instead. Presumeably the same would apply to the guard.

 

[142094]

Depends on whether Carlisle based Northern staff sign 142s - not saying that they don't but a lot of the 142 workingsI know to Carlisle are Newcastle staff.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Someone would've had to drive it before though, so unless they were 'out of hours', surely there'd be someone to do it.