School and college services

[neilmc]

I just read some Covid-19 recommendations such that dedicated schools and college services should not be taking any other passengers. Right on cue, two of my local bus services which provided useful links into Kendal during college term-time have changed hands and are now being run by a coach company with prepaid termly booking only. There's hardly much we can do about this but it's basically another couple of links in a sparsely-covered area gone for good. Is this happening all over the place or is it a Cumbria thing, and can a company just simply not allow people to board a school/college bus which is still a stage carriage service (not that this is the case here)?

 

[duncombec]

The change to pre-paid only is always something that can happen when a contract changes hands, especially if it is taken on commercially by an operator.

In the most recent cases, as I understand it services restricted to schoolchildren alone can have every seat in use and masks are not required, whereas if other passengers are carried, the social distancing regulations (mask + every other seat) do apply, thus halving capacity of the bus. As a result, operators would likely need to provide a duplicate to ensure capacity, and where only a small number of "normal" passengers - if any - are carried, it makes more financial sense to restrict non-scholar passengers.

In Kent, it is a mixture of both, with some services restricted to students and no replacement (quite commonly rural journeys), and others running with a duplicate restricted to Scholars, which may or may not be provided by the same company.

As is being discussed on the Transdev thread, there are also issues surrounding DBS checks, which are also having an effect on what can be done when and how.

 

[randyrippley]

Which routes have changed? I thought Traveller's Choice had taken all the Kendal College services from Stagecoach years ago

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The change to pre-paid only is always something that can happen when a contract changes hands, especially if it is taken on commercially by an operator.

In the most recent cases, as I understand it services restricted to schoolchildren alone can have every seat in use and masks are not required

Do you mean services buses in a dedicated school run, or coach operators doing schools?

I drive a Bova on the same school run there and back, prepaid travel, school does the bus passes, sixth formers get on first and then loaded in year groups so year 7s sit at the front. 40 odd on a 53 seater, front row is blocked off, and they all have to wear masks. We do random checks on the vehicle CCTV to make sure they are wearing them, I cant pull over every 5 minutes to check!

 

[duncombec]

Do you mean services buses in a dedicated school run, or coach operators doing schools?

I drive a Bova on the same school run there and back, prepaid travel, school does the bus passes, sixth formers get on first and then loaded in year groups so year 7s sit at the front. 40 odd on a 53 seater, front row is blocked off, and they all have to wear masks. We do random checks on the vehicle CCTV to make sure they are wearing them, I cant pull over every 5 minutes to check!

It wouldn't surprise me if different councils have different rules, or at least differing interpretations of them, and I did hesitate slightly before including it (although I did say "as I understand it, so I could have understood incorrectly!). Taking the three councils nearest me:
Medway make no reference to face coverings in their guidance, even in the section labelled face-coverings.
East Sussex state "[...] in line with government policy, the law requires all pupils aged 11 and over on public transport, to wear face coverings, see more below.", continuing below with "Children aged 11 and over should wear a covering on all school transport if they can. Younger children who can, should too."
Kent state "For students travelling to school by bus, they must: [...] wear face coverings.", then in the section for coach, taxi and minibus "For students travelling to school by bus [sic], they must: [...] wear face coverings (where possible)". Note that the "where possible" isn't appended to the non-school transport section.

There seems to be a differentiation between "must" and "should", even though all three councils would appear to prefer that masks are worn by all pupils regardless of situation.

Kent also state "Social distancing will apply to most buses, however the government have said that some services that are mainly used for schools can be changed to only carry school children. On these buses, operators can then use more of the space on the bus making use of all forward facing seats."

Government guidance (via Kent, https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...nd-other-places-of-education-autumn-term-2020) says
"From the autumn term, local authorities will not be required to uniformly apply the social distancing guidelines for public transport, on dedicated school or college transport. However, distancing should still be put in place within vehicles wherever possible."
"Local authorities may wish to work with transport operators to explore temporarily designating some public bus services as school or college only services. Government will work with local authorities and transport operators to ensure that these changes do not affect the availability of funding to operate these services. Local authorities should work with transport operators to seek to ensure that sufficient alternative or residual services remain available for members of the public who would normally use these services if this option is explored."

Then, in the section for dedicated school transport:
"It is now the law that children and young people aged 11 and over must wear a face covering on public transport. This law does not apply to dedicated school transport. However, we recommend that local authorities advise people aged 11 and over to wear a face covering when travelling on dedicated school transport to secondary school or college from the start of the autumn term."
but then, further down the same page (Section B.5)
"Face coverings: In accordance with advice from PHE, from the autumn term, we recommend that local authorities advise children and young people aged 11 and over to wear a face covering when travelling on dedicated transport. This does not apply to people who are exempt from wearing a face covering on public transport.
Until the start of the autumn term, children and young people have not been expected to wear face coverings on dedicated transport, although they have been able to if they wish. We are adopting this new position in light of all children returning to education full-time. As well as the fact that it will not always be possible to apply the social distancing measures that apply on public transport."

So although it is a little unclear, it seems that it is not compulsory, like it is on "regular" public transport unless you have an exemption, but is nevertheless advised.

 

[Swimbar]

Connexions buses have come up with a novel idea on their X52 Otley to Harrogate Service.
They are using a Double Deck vehicle on the morning/afternoon schooldays service.
School children are required to sit upstairs and not social distance and fare paying passengers sit downstairs and socially distance.

 

[TAS]

Hedingham/Chambers have been doing something similar, creating dedicated 'Busy Bus Zones' for non-school pupils on some services: https://www.chambersbus.co.uk/coronavirus/ and https://www.hedingham.co.uk/coronavirus/.

I used to catch a Chambers service to school, some years ago now, but which still runs to a similar timetable. It carried pupils from several schools and colleges, as well as some normal passengers (split across one double deck and one single deck). I can't help feeling that there's no way that all those students are properly separated now, however hard they may have tried to find a solution.

 

[73001]

Connexions buses have come up with a novel idea on their X52 Otley to Harrogate Service.
They are using a Double Deck vehicle on the morning/afternoon schooldays service.
School children are required to sit upstairs and not social distance and fare paying passengers sit downstairs and socially distance.

I don't think that is what the guidance envisaged happening and probably shouldn't happen. The service itself needs to be reclassified for the removal of social distancing... but hats off to them for a novel idea.
I work in a large comprehensive school and got landed with all of the transport issues when we went into lockdown in March. We have over 600 pupils that travel in on 'school buses'. We'd need 21 double deckers if we had to socially distance, we currently have 8. The reclassification to 'dedicated school service' was the govts way around the issue of getting everyone back to school. We (and every school) had to provide extremely detailed figures before the summer to the DfT about how every member of school got in and home again. They must have looked at it and realised it wouldn't work unless they moved the goalposts. It does put all of the efforts that schools have done to keep children in 'bubbles' into question when the second they leave the gate as individual year groups, the are completely mixed up on buses carrying over 70 of them. 2 of our buses also carry some pupils from other schools, thus further eroding all of the efforts in school.

 

[Westcountryman]

A news item about a school bus service in Winchester. I have driven a but under that bridge but it was a Leyland Tiger cub.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54116518

Three children who were hurt when a school bus hit a railway bridge suffered "potentially life-changing injuries", police have said.
A further 12 suffered minor injuries when the double-decker's roof was torn off in the crash in Winchester on Thursday. The 72 youngsters on board were aged between 11 and 16.

EDIT: Apologies. I didn't see the separate thread.

 

[Stan Drews]

I don't think that is what the guidance envisaged happening and probably shouldn't happen. The service itself needs to be reclassified for the removal of social distancing... but hats off to them for a novel idea.

That‘s exactly one of the scenario’s that the guidance envisaged, hence why it was one of the options. Provided the area ‘reserved’ for school pupils is clearly marked, then there is no need for social distancing in that area provided that face coverings are worn. It could be the rear portion of a single deck bus if required. Other areas of the vehicle can be used as ‘normal’ with the appropriate social distancing observed.

 

[neilmc]

Which routes have changed? I thought Traveller's Choice had taken all the Kendal College services from Stagecoach years ago

The 502 from Brough and the 506 from Appleby/Penrith are the ones in question. They are term-time only but the evening 506 doubled as a shopping service when linked to the Tuesday and Friday 106 from Kendal to Penrith and return, so villages along the A6 route had a return journey to Penrith in the morning using the 106 and a return journey to Kendal in the afternoon using the 106/506. I have had to alert people locally in case they don't know as the 506 still appears on physical bus stop timetables though it's been removed online. Pain.

 

[73001]

That‘s exactly one of the scenario’s that the guidance envisaged, hence why it was one of the options. Provided the area ‘reserved’ for school pupils is clearly marked, then there is no need for social distancing in that area provided that face coverings are worn. It could be the rear portion of a single deck bus if required. Other areas of the vehicle can be used as ‘normal’ with the appropriate social distancing observed.

My apologies, I hadn't seen that bit of guidance... all of our services are wholly school pupils only so I must have stopped reading at that point

 

[richw]

Social distancing doesn’t apply to closed school and college services so this is the way most have gone.
If it allowed public to use these services social distancing would apply

 

[Flange Squeal]

Round my way, Stagecoach South (plus numerous others) have a lot of publicly registered school/college routes that obviously only really have a use for students, but anyone could technically use. These are generally continuing to operate to the same timetables and route numbers, but closed to the public.

Journeys on 'normal' routes that may make small school day deviations, or just have natural school flows along the normal line of route, are being duplicated - one bus for the public/social distancing and the other solely for students.

Not aware of any Surrey or Hampshire operators doing the 'mixed' scenario described above.

 

[Boo_]

Looked up the 502 it been withdrawn and not replaced but the coach that now taking students is a collage private route that maybe down to using a standard coach as they dont need to be DDA for private school runs

 

[Martin1988]

The timetable for Service 680 which operates between Yate and SGS College Filton via UWE states that the service is for "Student Use Only".

The last time I used the evening service back in November there were no college students on there and the few passengers were all members of the public. If there are no or few students on and there is space for members of the public to board, could they realistically be refused?

 

[Robertj21a]

The timetable for Service 680 which operates between Yate and SGS College Filton via UWE states that the service is for "Student Use Only".

The last time I used the evening service back in November there were no college students on there and the few passengers were all members of the public. If there are no or few students on and there is space for members of the public to board, could they realistically be refused?

If the service has now been changed to, effectively, a closed contract for students then the public will not be accepted - by definition, it's no longer a public service.

 

[Andy Pacer]

In the Leicester area services which have heavy school flows have had journeys with an 'S' prefix or suffix added to the route number depending on operator and these are closed services.

For example Arriva are operating a school only journey on the X5 service to Melton, numbered SX5 and effectively duplicating the service car for the section of the journey which attracts the students.

First have some if their city services complimented by dedicated school closed trips run by local(ish) coach operators which I believe have been arranged by the local authority.

 

[Deerfold]

Connexions buses have come up with a novel idea on their X52 Otley to Harrogate Service.
They are using a Double Deck vehicle on the morning/afternoon schooldays service.
School children are required to sit upstairs and not social distance and fare paying passengers sit downstairs and socially distance.

Double deckers are commonly used on this service anyway. The Schooltimes one was almost always a Double Decker even before Covid.

 

[Mwanesh]

Some of the Stagecoach Manchester school runs are being operated by coaches loaned from Megabus with driver from Megabus Cwmbran and Wooley Edge.

 

[Boo_]

Some of the Stagecoach Manchester school runs are being operated by coaches loaned from Megabus with driver from Megabus Cwmbran and Wooley Edge.

As far as am aware they also using Parks of Hampton Rochdale drivers and megabus coaches as they are not on NX currently.

Think they also using Parks op discs not stagecoach Manchester

as TFGM say is run and operated by Parks of Hamilton/Megabus, on behalf of Stagecoach,

Duplicate school bus services

Duplicate school bus services Manchester Greater Bolton Bury Wigan Tameside Stockport Trafford Salford Rochdale Oldham

tfgm.com

Coaches are based at Hazel Grove P&R as owned by Stagecoach

54207 SF62 CRZ B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 12/12
54208 SF62 CTU Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 12/12
54216 YX63 NHC Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 10/13
54217 YX63 NHD Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 10/13
54218 YX63 NHE Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 10/13
54220 YX63 NHG Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/4FLt Megabus Blue 11/13
54263 YY65 VXE Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/3FLt Megabus Blue 12/15
54264 YY65 VXF Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/3FLt Megabus Blue 12/15
54265 YY65 VXG Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/3FLt Megabus Blue 12/15
54266 YY65 VXH Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/3FLt Megabus Blue 12/15
54267 YY65 VXJ Volvo B11RT Plaxton Elite-i CH71/3FLt Megabus Blue 12/15
59222 BN64 FKP Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLt Megabus Blue 11/14
59224 BN64 FKS Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLt Megabus Blue 11/14
59225 BN64 FKT Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLt Megabus Blue 11/14
59226 BN64 FKU Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLt Megabus Blue 11/14
59227 BN64 FKV Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLt Megabus Blue 11/14
59228 BN64 FKW Scania Caetano Levante 2 C48FLtMegabus Blue 11/14

Some photos been taken by apdMedia
https://www.flickr.com/photos/envir...JeqKXbSD8-LB-oUAmpkPDXoaH0mJ9clNtkha3p0DQQchU. S

 

[PeterC]

In Bucks Red Rose are restricting some journeys on normal routes to school children only while I have seen Carousel running a service in duplicate with one bus dedicated to schools' traffic.

 

[chopperman21]

TfL have contracted Ensignbus (who don't have any normal TfL contracts) to operate a number of duplicate school journeys in North and East London using ex Metroline Sales stock such as 972 (LK58KHG).