Schengen 90-day visit restriction

[nw1]

Hi,

Am currently overseas in the Schengen zone, and for personal reasons, I will need to leave pretty close to the 90-day limit.

I have a couple of questions, not sure if anyone can answer accurately.

Firstly, what does "90 days" actually mean? 90 full days? 90 partial days? 90 overnight stays, 90x24 hours?

So for example if I arrive in Schengen at 19:00 CET on day 0, for how long can I stay?

- Until the end of day 89 (90 partial days)?
- Until the end of day 90 (90 nights)?
- Until 19:00 CET on day 90 (90x24 hours)?
- Until sometime on day 91 (90 full days)?

Also, another question about overstaying through circumstances which are not your fault (i.e. flight cancellation).

Say the flight on, let's say, day 89 or 90 is cancelled and the next available flight to your destination by your airline (which they can book you on without additional cost) is a couple of days later?

Is it OK to wait until that first available flight (as the cancellation is not your fault)? Or would you have to rebook on another airline, at your own personal expense and possibly via a very indirect route (e.g. Rome to London via Lisbon or Edinburgh) if such an option was available before the end of the 90-day limit?

Thanks.

 

[Gloster]

From a recollection dating from before Schengen, I would think that it is eighty-nine nights: the day of your arrival is Day One and that of your departure is Day Ninety. However, I think you are allowed to arrive at 00.01 and leave at 23.59. (But, as said, this is based on pre-Schengen recollections.)

 

[Snow1964]

I think you only get a date stamp in your passport, so time of day is irrelevant. As previously answered it is effectively 89 nights, as 90th date is last day of validity.

Regarding overstaying, the general rule of most countries is not allowed to do it, so upto you to build some contingency into your return flight date/time.

 

[johnnychips]

If you overstayed by a day or so, I suppose you would get some sort of ‘black mark’ on the country’s computer system, so they might not want to readmit you in the future?

 

[Gloster]

It looks like it would most likely be a fine, which could be hefty; I think the amount depends on the country. But you could be imprisoned, deported or banned from the zone. Unless UK-Europe relations really go down the pan (all too possible) countries are likely to be reasonable in cases of force majeure.

 

[westv]

It's a pity that those of us who voted remain are affected by the same loss of freedom as those that voted leave. I will probably never need to stay in the EU for more than 90 days but I have no choice now.

 

[nw1]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems a little strange that they may not be reasonable if your flight was cancelled though. What harm would you be doing by staying for an additional day, not out of your own choice but due to a flight cancellation? That really does shock me, in all honesty: I only asked the question "to cover all bases", I was expecting the answer to be "the rules are waived if you are unable to return to your own country due to circumstances outside your control, including flight-cancellation, serious illness, etc".

 

[Cloud Strife]

So to answer this properly:

Firstly, what does "90 days" actually mean? 90 full days? 90 partial days? 90 overnight stays, 90x24 hours?

90 days. The time of arrival is irrelevant, but each day (counted from midnight) within the Schengen zone is counted as a day towards the 90 day limit. So, if you arrive at 23:58, you already use one day.

Also, another question about overstaying through circumstances which are not your fault (i.e. flight cancellation).

Say the flight on, let's say, day 89 or 90 is cancelled and the next available flight to your destination by your airline (which they can book you on without additional cost) is a couple of days later?

Is it OK to wait until that first available flight (as the cancellation is not your fault)? Or would you have to rebook on another airline, at your own personal expense and possibly via a very indirect route (e.g. Rome to London via Lisbon or Edinburgh) if such an option was available before the end of the 90-day limit?

Thanks.

In this specific situation, the best advice is to go to the border post at the airport and ask them to allow the overstay. They can issue a short term extension without any problems, and it's the standard process when someone can't leave through no fault of their own. A flight cancellation is pretty much normal, and they won't punish you for it. The exact process depends on the country, but in the case of PL, what they'll do is issue a letter confirming that you can stay for the additional days legally.

In general, as long as it's due to an issue outside your control, it'll be fine.

If you overstayed by a day or so, I suppose you would get some sort of ‘black mark’ on the country’s computer system, so they might not want to readmit you in the future?

That only applies if the OP doesn't talk to them in advance. In practice, all you have to do is talk to the relevant border police, who will almost always issue a short term visa extension based on the circumstances. It's the same story if you get sick and can't physically travel, except that they will accept it post factum at the border post.

 

[nw1]

So to answer this properly:



90 days. The time of arrival is irrelevant, but each day (counted from midnight) within the Schengen zone is counted as a day towards the 90 day limit. So, if you arrive at 23:58, you already use one day.



In this specific situation, the best advice is to go to the border post at the airport and ask them to allow the overstay. They can issue a short term extension without any problems, and it's the standard process when someone can't leave through no fault of their own. A flight cancellation is pretty much normal, and they won't punish you for it. The exact process depends on the country, but in the case of PL, what they'll do is issue a letter confirming that you can stay for the additional days legally.

In general, as long as it's due to an issue outside your control, it'll be fine.

@Cloud Strife thanks for that.
It's likely I would be leaving around day 85-88 or thereabouts, but conceivable that if I have very bad luck with flights I might end up being forced to stay to day 90 or 91. Unlikely I realise; just trying to consider worst-case scenarios.

From previous experience with the airline, cancellations tend not to occur at short notice, but rather a day or so before; I am informed by email, so would know about the cancellation prior to travelling to the airport.

Would I thus be required to phone the border police, or would showing up at the airport with documentary evidence of the cancellation and date of first-available subsequent flight be sufficient?

Thanks.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Would I thus be required to phone the border police, or would showing up at the airport with documentary evidence of the cancellation and date of first-available subsequent flight be sufficient?

Depending on the specific country, it might be enough just to visit the local police station, and it's possible that the border police in question will also have an office in the city itself.

You could try calling first of all, but it's probably better to have some sort of documentary evidence to show that they've agreed to the overstay.

Travelling to the border post at the airport will be the easiest bet because they'll have someone on duty for sure, but it might not be strictly necessary. Generally speaking, without making reference to your specific country, the best bet is to look at the structure of the border police themselves. If they're part of the national police services (such as in Slovenia), then I'd go to the local police station first. If it's a separate organisation, like in Poland, then I'd go to the border post.

But in general, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I don’t know if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick with these suggestions, but the border posts ( for departing) at many Schengen airports, are airside, well beyond the security entrance to airside.
Often just prior to the actual departure gates.
This is particularly the case at many Spanish and Portuguese airports, where the largest proportion of passengers are travelling to Schengen destinations.
You wouldn’t be able to approach them, unless you can go through in possession of a valid boarding pass for a flight on that day and then there’s no way of returning to landslide.

A border control office, landslide, might be hard to find at many locations.

 

[Cloud Strife]

It doesn't work like that. The physical controls can be after security, but almost every airport will have a physical office for their staff with a named commander and duty manager. If you need to visit them at the airport, it's enough to simply ask the airport information desk, and you'll either be taken there or someone will come to you. Or they'll have an office landside which can be visited directly.

There are some exceptions where an airport border post can be manned only during certain hours, but it's rare.

A border control office, landslide, might be hard to find at many locations.

Even if there's no office landside, you'll simply be escorted there if needs be. Most border posts are not just the physical desks, but all the accompanying infrastructure, including facilities for secondary checks and offices for other work.

 

[Howardh]

As an anecdote, since these new protocols started I've been to the EU/Schengen area five times, so I've amassed 10 stamps, and thanks to Malaga airport one is on a completely different page to the others and doesn't correspond to the stamp in!

Point being is that on arrival no official has actually checked and counted up the days. They've just glanced, stamped and let me through. Now, either the days are taken electronically (so why the need for a stamp?) or they are frankly not that bothered. So if you aggregate 100 days in 180, they will probably never notice - unless it's all done electronically.....which will happen next year.

However should you be brought to the police's attention whilst over there, on a separate matter, they may well add up the days and drop you in it.

Now I'm not suggesting anyone take the risk, and agree that the best action is to contact officials; but so far I haven't seen any evidence of action against overstayers. Anyone??

 

[RT4038]

As an anecdote, since these new protocols started I've been to the EU/Schengen area five times, so I've amassed 10 stamps, and thanks to Malaga airport one is on a completely different page to the others and doesn't correspond to the stamp in!

Point being is that on arrival no official has actually checked and counted up the days. They've just glanced, stamped and let me through. Now, either the days are taken electronically (so why the need for a stamp?) or they are frankly not that bothered. So if you aggregate 100 days in 180, they will probably never notice - unless it's all done electronically.....which will happen next year.

However should you be brought to the police's attention whilst over there, on a separate matter, they may well add up the days and drop you in it.

Now I'm not suggesting anyone take the risk, and agree that the best action is to contact officials; but so far I haven't seen any evidence of action against overstayers. Anyone??

I would be very wary of following this advice. Are the passports being swiped through the Immigration desk computer before stamping? On entry and exit of many countries they are.
The stamping is to provide physical evidence to the holder and subsequent officials.
Don't be taking a chance as it may end up in tears.

 

[xotGD]

I have heard stories of people being denied entry because their exit from a previous trip had not been recorded properly. So make sure you get an exit stamp.

 

[Cloud Strife]

As an anecdote, since these new protocols started I've been to the EU/Schengen area five times, so I've amassed 10 stamps, and thanks to Malaga airport one is on a completely different page to the others and doesn't correspond to the stamp in!

Nothing unusual. My old passport was a mess of Croatian stamps, and they were all over the place. Only Belarus and Ukraine have been systematic about stamping passports neatly during my travels.

Point being is that on arrival no official has actually checked and counted up the days. They've just glanced, stamped and let me through. Now, either the days are taken electronically (so why the need for a stamp?) or they are frankly not that bothered. So if you aggregate 100 days in 180, they will probably never notice - unless it's all done electronically.....which will happen next year.

They're checking in La Linea randomly. I've had this twice so far, although when they've questioned the apparent overstay, I've just handed over my Polish ID card and acted stupid. I've been using my UK passport simply to collect more stamps!

 

[Mojo]

Make the most of it whilst you can! Disappointingly when the EU's new Entry/Exit System goes live, predicted to be May next year, the stamping of passports will end.

 

[XAM2175]

Nothing unusual. My old passport was a mess of Croatian stamps, and they were all over the place. Only Belarus and Ukraine have been systematic about stamping passports neatly during my travels.

In my experience, German, Swiss, Austrian, and Danish officers can be relied up on to line them up nicely and try to get them in correspondence with the entry, where applicable.

French and Spanish officers, less so. Very surprising!

So far though it's officers at Schiphol that have consistently just gleefully whacked them in randomly

Make the most of it whilst you can! Disappointingly when the EU's new Entry/Exit System goes live, predicted to be May next year, the stamping of passports will end.

I understand that it's just recently been delayed to November next year - something I'm grateful of myself for this very reason.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I understand that it's just recently been delayed to November next year - something I'm grateful of myself for this very reason.

The delays keep mounting up, because no-one is really sure how this can be implemented. There are huge problems on a functional level, and airports such as Frankfurt or Schiphol simply can't accommodate the sheer amount of passengers who will have to be fingerprinted. The latest move is to try and expand the use of e-gates before introducing the EES, and we're seeing that with bilateral agreements signed between Schengen members and third countries.

Make the most of it whilst you can! Disappointingly when the EU's new Entry/Exit System goes live, predicted to be May next year, the stamping of passports will end.

I've heard from a fairly high level source within the Polish Straż Graniczna that it's not a done deal. There is a suggestion that stamping of passports will become optional, or that they will be replaced with a less bureaucratic system. The humble stamp is actually quite controlled in terms of who has access to it, with each border post required to keep detailed records of who had which stamp and when.

IMO, they should remain, but on a voluntary basis for informational purposes. It's still not clear how someone will be able to check their status as there won't be any public access to the EES system.

 

[Mojo]

I understand that it's just recently been delayed to November next year - something I'm grateful of myself for this very reason.

Excellent to hear - glad it’s been delayed again. When I checked last night the EU website still said May but I see news reports from today now saying November.