Scarborough; TPEx reliability

[AndrewE]

All joking aside, there is a serious lack of joined-up thinking when it comes to TPE, and an awful lot of it seems to me to stem from TfL's idiotic insistence on trying to squeeze more capacity out of the existing network without any infrastructure investment.

Do you mean D(a)FT?

 

[CdBrux]

a friend who is an infrequent rail traveler has been more or less stranded at Scarborough this evening and to say the least is not amused.

 

[bbrez]

a friend who is an infrequent rail traveler has been more or less stranded at Scarborough this evening and to say the least is not amused.

I know someone who went to the cricket who was stranded yesterday. Put me off going tomorrow.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Indeed, but have TPE got the stock OR the crews?

To run a Scarborough to York shuttle, you'd need two units (or three as a hot spare should one fail) which would need to pass each other just outside of Malton to avoid conflict. York to Scarborough takes around 45 minutes so its do able to have 15 minutes at either end as layover.

Stock is stabled at Scarborough overnight and as for crewing, isn't there an crew based at Scarborough who work the first departures? So to work the shuttles you looking at requiring eight guards and eight drivers who would work two nine hour shifts with cover based on 5am to 2pm and 2pm to 11pm.

 

[CdBrux]

I know someone who went to the cricket who was stranded yesterday. Put me off going tomorrow.

My friend, who was also at the cricket, got back eventually and 3 hours late. They were told the initial cause of the problem was signal failures at Manchester Airport which then created a long knock on effect across the network

 

[B&I]

My friend, who was also at the cricket, got back eventually and 3 hours late. They were told the initial cause of the problem was signal failures at Manchester Airport which then created a long knock on effect across the network

Given that the obsession with serving Manchester Airport seems to now cause disaster on a faily basis across the entire railway network of the north, this is unsurprising.

 

[daikilo]

To run a Scarborough to York shuttle, you'd need two units (or three as a hot spare should one fail) which would need to pass each other just outside of Malton to avoid conflict. York to Scarborough takes around 45 minutes so its do able to have 15 minutes at either end as layover.

Stock is stabled at Scarborough overnight and as for crewing, isn't there an crew based at Scarborough who work the first departures? So to work the shuttles you looking at requiring eight guards and eight drivers who would work two nine hour shifts with cover based on 5am to 2pm and 2pm to 11pm.

Presumbly there would be savings if the inbound TPE service turned back at York whether it is late or not. An alternative would be to add a 195 and crew to the diagrams who would sit at Scarborough for an extra hour (less if the inbound is late).

And I repeat, this problem is mainly caused by congestion at Manchester and/or Leeds, until this is fully understood and resolved it will not be possible to run a reliable service.

 

[DarloRich]

Maybe someone should call WCRC......................................

 

[xotGD]

If only TPE had a couple of sets of loco-hauled stock that could provide a York - Scarbados shuttle...

 

[scarby]

So Transpennine Express have completely failed their customers during what I suspect are the three busiest weekdays of the year so far on the York-Scarborough route, managing to cancel precisely the services that would have been busy with cricket fans. They have also cancelled the 0835 arrival this morning (again), whuich would have been popular with spectators wanting to get some breakfast in Scarborough and an early arrival at the ground (many like to be there when the gates open).

Surely under the terms of the franchise, Transpennine Express are obliged to maintain a certain level of service?

 

[yorkguy]

As a regular user (up to 3 times a week) of the Malton to Leeds service, I’ve given up and gone back to my car. TPE is just too unreliable. Passenger numbers will soon start to drop, as many of my colleagues find the service too overcrowded and unpunctual to even consider. What a sad state of affairs

 

[Steve Bray]

I'm planning to watch Yorkshire's next 4 day game v Worcestershire in August. I would then be travelling Scarborough - York - London - Dorking but am nervous of attempting this due to the current unreliability of the Scarborough service. Do all the trains that don't start at Scarborough start from Malton? or should I take the bus to York?

 

[Kieran1990]

I'm planning to watch Yorkshire's next 4 day game v Worcestershire in August. I would then be travelling Scarborough - York - London - Dorking but am nervous of attempting this due to the current unreliability of the Scarborough service. Do all the trains that don't start at Scarborough start from Malton? or should I take the bus to York?

I would personally take the bus to/from York- a lot more reliable, you don’t want to get stranded at Malton or stuck in Scarbourgh missing a connection at York southbound to the Cross.

 

[daikilo]

So Transpennine Express have completely failed their customers during what I suspect are the three busiest weekdays of the year so far on the York-Scarborough route, managing to cancel precisely the services that would have been busy with cricket fans. They have also cancelled the 0835 arrival this morning (again), whuich would have been popular with spectators wanting to get some breakfast in Scarborough and an early arrival at the ground (many like to be there when the gates open).

Surely under the terms of the franchise, Transpennine Express are obliged to maintain a certain level of service?

As I have said on other occasions, much of the issue is caused by congestion at Manchester and Leeds which is actually an NR failing, not TPE, although other operators non-NR delays may be contributing. DfT could intervene and fund required backstops if NR simply cannot resolve the congestion and peak schedules cannot be maintained.

A temporary solution such as TPE operating peak Stalybridge-Picadilly direct may help resolve the Manchester issue but the flat junctions at Leeds remain.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm planning to watch Yorkshire's next 4 day game v Worcestershire in August. I would then be travelling Scarborough - York - London - Dorking but am nervous of attempting this due to the current unreliability of the Scarborough service. Do all the trains that don't start at Scarborough start from Malton? or should I take the bus to York?

Get the Coastliner. I HATE buses with a passion but they are actually quite good. They will be winning an awful lot of traffic on the back of this and we might not win those converts back.

 

[Skipness]

Earlier this week I was booked to travel on the 11.11 ex Malton, but fortuitously changed plan and caught it from Scarborough. Train arrived (packed) at 10:44 and took around two minutes to empty, then departed two mins late at 10:48, an excellent turnaround but no reservations were in place and the train was full, meaning pax from Seamer and Malton had to stand as far as York.
(On a personal note the change of Manchester from Piccadilly to Victoria is inconvenient for my onward connection, now have to change at Huddersfield to reach Piccadilly)

 

[mike57]

I'm planning to watch Yorkshire's next 4 day game v Worcestershire in August. I would then be travelling Scarborough - York - London - Dorking but am nervous of attempting this due to the current unreliability of the Scarborough service. Do all the trains that don't start at Scarborough start from Malton? or should I take the bus to York?

Most Scarborough cancellations are turned at Malton, anything more than 25 late is a candidate. The Coastliner leaves Malton at xx 45 which is about right for a late turned xx 08 arr. It takes 50 mins. Coming back Coastliner leaves at xx 10 to arrive Malton xx 00 which is in time for a xx 11 departure

Another thought change at Doncaster or Hull, it takes longer but hull Scarborough service has been very reliable recently in spite of bad publicity for Northern, just not many services to choose from.

 

[waterboo]

Even the staff at York station are directing customers away from using these awfully unreliable services, to joining the punctual and frankly more comfortable coastliners.

 

[markindurham]

It's Armed Forces Day at Scarvegas this weekend - it's to be hoped that TPE up their game for this, as the trains are usually absolutely rammed

 

[Senex]

Is this TPE's attempt to kill off the Scarborough line, so it has one fewer destination to serve? Seriously, I am still struck by how little attention from press, broadcasters, and both local and national politicians the scandal of this abandonment of any attempt to provide a reliable service has had, and how TPE has been protected from the excoriating coverage that GTR and Northern have (rightly) received. Who are TPE's friends in very high places? Or is it just that the branch from York to a major coastal town is of no interest beyond North Yorkshire?

 

[mlambeuk]

Looking at the departure boards for York, it looks like Middlesbrough isn't faring much better.

 

[Kieran1990]

Looking at the departure boards for York, it looks like Middlesbrough isn't faring much better.

This is daily now and getting beyond a joke.... And yet still there is no backlash or TPE being hauled over the coals.
I’ve been drafting a letter to my local MP this afternoon asking if she get this shambolic service looked at.

Sadly TPE North is turning into a Virgin XC Operation Princess situation.

 

[1D53]

1850 ex Scarborough cancelled for the third consecutive day, thankfully they've played an extra half an hour at the cricket so the fans will be on the later train.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Is this TPE's attempt to kill off the Scarborough line, so it has one fewer destination to serve? Seriously, I am still struck by how little attention from press, broadcasters, and both local and national politicians the scandal of this abandonment of any attempt to provide a reliable service has had, and how TPE has been protected from the excoriating coverage that GTR and Northern have (rightly) received. Who are TPE's friends in very high places? Or is it just that the branch from York to a major coastal town is of no interest beyond North Yorkshire?

Probably, to TPE the Scarborough branch is just an irrelivent branchline which serves no real purpose apart from the bucket and spade brigade in the midst of summer. I don't think it'll be long before the press gets wind of it, especially if a member of rail staff gets assaulted in this hot weather as the service has yet again been terminated at Malton.


I'd suggest that we should all email the Wrong Dishonourable Robert Goodwill, the MP for Scarborough and Whitby. I'd also suggest clogging the inbox of Kevin Hollinrake, the MP for Thirsk and Malton too.

 

[nr758123]

Not just Scarborough. Since TPE took over the service at Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden & Salithwaite from the timetable change, cancellations have been routine, and over the past six weeks there have been just two days without cancellations affecting any or all of the above stations. We, too, have a service which is no better than hourly.

Slaithwaite and Mossley are now on the Hull to Stalybridge service. I can't call it a Hull to Manchester service because it often only makes it as far as Stalybridge before being turned back.

With a combination of cancellations and Stalybridge turnbacks, it's been routine for Manchester to Mossley and Slaithwaite to have two hour gaps in the service, often a three hour gap. Today, apparently, they have surpassed themselves and there has been a four hour gap.

TPE management were quite unequivocal, in public meetings, that the new timetable would be more resilient than the old, and that mitigating disruption would be easier. It's not worked out that way, and TPE management have been silent.

Hard to escape the conclusion that TPE are only really interested in running four fast trains an hour between Manchester and York, and don't care about passengers at places like Middlesbrough, Scarborough, Slaithwaite & Mossley.

 

[scarby]

1850 ex Scarborough cancelled for the third consecutive day, thankfully they've played an extra half an hour at the cricket so the fans will be on the later train.

The crowds at Championship matches thin out considerably from around 5pm as people head off after a long day to get home, do other things, etc., so I am sure a substantial number of customers would be heading for exactly that train.

TPE have completely failed the cricket customers this week, with an appalling performance, cancelling many of the trains that the spectators would be most likely to travel on.

 

[Craigster90]

More cancellations and delays today, someone mentioned a points failure today as a cause. It’s getting ridiculous. My friend visits me in malton and i was putting him on the train back to york at 1911 a few Tuesday’s ago and his train came on time, the Scarborough train got later, later and was eventually cancelled. He’s coning this Saturday so lets see what happens then.

 

[northernchris]

As I have said on other occasions, much of the issue is caused by congestion at Manchester and Leeds which is actually an NR failing, not TPE, although other operators non-NR delays may be contributing. DfT could intervene and fund required backstops if NR simply cannot resolve the congestion and peak schedules cannot be maintained.

A temporary solution such as TPE operating peak Stalybridge-Picadilly direct may help resolve the Manchester issue but the flat junctions at Leeds remain.

Transpennine Express are an awful operator, and there's no excusing the silence from the management over their appalling performance. However, the last couple of days have seen a number of high profile issues in the Manchester area which obviously quickly ripples throughout the network. The power cut at Oxford Road yesterday along with signalling issues at the Airport must have created thousands of delay minutes and without turning trains round early they would never recover the timetable. It's also clear the frontline staff are frustrated too, yesterday I observed a driver shouting at the conductor in front of passengers

Despite all of this, whoever signed off the timetable as being deliverable really needs to be held responsible. It's already been mentioned the turnaround times at some stations (including Scarborough) don't meet Network Rail guidelines so questions should be being asked of why this was found to be acceptable. Let's not forget TPE got the best paths around Manchester and Leeds, with Northern having to slot in around them, and there's been numerous instances of Northern - and other operators - services being held for 2 or 3 late TPE services to be allowed through which then creates the snowball effect across the network

 

[Eccles1983]

Well, the locals of said lines moaned and whinged about Northern at all the public meetings and actively wanted TPE to rule the roost.

The writing was on the wall, and repeated by anyone who signed the route between vic and hud that it would be chaos.

Tpe's bluff has been called. For years they blamed Northern - yet when in sole possession of the line they are being exposed.

 

[30907]

To run a Scarborough to York shuttle, you'd need two units (or three as a hot spare should one fail) which would need to pass each other just outside of Malton to avoid conflict. York to Scarborough takes around 45 minutes so its do able to have 15 minutes at either end as layover.

Stock is stabled at Scarborough overnight and as for crewing, isn't there an crew based at Scarborough who work the first departures? So to work the shuttles you looking at requiring eight guards and eight drivers who would work two nine hour shifts with cover based on 5am to 2pm and 2pm to 11pm.

Presumbly there would be savings if the inbound TPE service turned back at York whether it is late or not. An alternative would be to add a 185 and crew to the diagrams who would sit at Scarborough for an extra hour (less if the inbound is late).

On today's observations (this morning Leeds-Newcastle), with some rediagramming a unit could be free at York at the end of the morning peak and run an extra to SCA at say 0915 to provide a turnover unit for the rest of the day (and take the holiday crowds home!) - that would obviously put some pressure on the evening peak somewhere with one unit fewer available, but clearly some action is required!