Scarborough TPE services from December 2017 Timetable change

[mwmbwls]

After a meeting this week I have an update regarding the class 185 usage in the long term when the new TPE fleets are in service...

Potential future plans based on keeping additional 185's with TPE are:

Hull - Manchester Airport via Doncaster / Sheffield - 6 cars throughout

More info to follow soon.

So the third path per hour through the Hope Valley would not originate in the East Midlands as previously suggested in Route Utilisation Studies. This also constitutes a further call on paths to the airport and presumably reversals at Piccadilly. In the absence of capacity improvements say the western extension from the Airport or the building of 15/16 at Piccadilly, bay removal at Oxford Road or the building of HS2/HS3 will the 185's last that long?

 

[brompton rail]

We might need to be prepared for the "and" to be "instead of"...

Wouldn't a 6 car Class 185 have to travel via Selby as Goole platforms are not long enough for 6 cars? And, doesn't Meadowhall need lengthening for 6 cars too?

IF (!) we get two fast Hull - Doncaster - Sheffield services hopefully Network Rail might be able to spread departures west from Doncaster. Currently departures at xx.42 to Manchester, xx.49 to Sheffield and xx.59 to Birmingham. One every 20 minutes (? 00.42, 00.59, 00.19) would be good. Mind you from Sheffield eastwards there is bunching at xx.41 (Northern for Hull) and xx.47 (XC for Newcastle).

 

[YorkshireBear]

We might need to be prepared for the "and" to be "instead of"...

I would agree. Has doncaster got capacity for this??? Crossing the ECML increased further.

Could it be that Leeds-Bridlington will be the connect route with 195s? So therefore replacing the Sheffield-Bridlington service.

Various options available but it will be interesting to see which are taken up.

 

[lejog]

I would agree. Has doncaster got capacity for this??? Crossing the ECML increased further.

Could it be that Leeds-Bridlington will be the connect route with 195s? So therefore replacing the Sheffield-Bridlington service.

Various options available but it will be interesting to see which are taken up.

The following is pure conjecture, but IIRC in the introduction to the announcement of the new Northern franchise, Hull was included in a list of new major destinations to be served from Bradford. This could indicate a late change was made to exclude a Bradford to Hull/Bridlington service .... or could just have been a typo.

What does remain in the franchise is that Northern are to pitch for an extra Leeds-Selby path, which makes sense if it is they want to run a Northern Connect service over the route as well as a stopping service.

 

[darylyates17]

Going Slightly off topic does anyone know which route the Liverpool-Scotland Services will take when they start in 2019 will it be via Newton Le Willows and join the WCML at Lowton Junction or will they go Via St Helens Central and join the WCML near Wigan and will they use the new class 397s

 

[WatcherZero]

Occasional Extension of the Liverpool-Newcastle sevice and initially use Mk5 then later class 802 I believe.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Going Slightly off topic does anyone know which route the Liverpool-Scotland Services will take when they start in 2019 will it be via Newton Le Willows and join the WCML at Lowton Junction or will they go Via St Helens Central and join the WCML near Wigan and will they use the new class 397s

3 trains day in each direction initially. Unsure as of yet what will start the service - possibility of using 185's until enough CAF units arrive.

The route should be Liverpool to Wigan via St Helens Central, with Lowton as a diversion route.

The other route will be an extension of the current Liverpool to Newcastle express service and that will be 185 operated to begin, followed by Hitachi hybrids.

For info, the loco hauled Mk5 sets will only do Liverpool to Scarborough and also Manchester Airport to Middlesbrough.

 

[xotGD]

3 trains day in each direction initially. Unsure as of yet what will start the service - possibility of using 185's until enough CAF units arrive.

The route should be Liverpool to Wigan via St Helens Central, with Lowton as a diversion route.

The other route will be an extension of the current Liverpool to Newcastle express service and that will be 185 operated to begin, followed by Hitachi hybrids.

For info, the loco hauled Mk5 sets will only do Liverpool to Scarborough and also Manchester Airport to Middlesbrough.

I thought that the loco hauled sets would initially work Newcastle services before migrating to the Boro and Scarborough turns once the new units arrive?

 

[BMIFlyer]

I thought that the loco hauled sets would initially work Newcastle services before migrating to the Boro and Scarborough turns once the new units arrive?

Plans have changed. The Liverpool to Newcastle trains will be class 185 operated until the Hitachi units arrive.

It was not set in solid gold that the loco hauled would ever go to Newcastle anyway, unless for driver training. This (driver training) will now be with the Mk3 set if it ever arrives - in top and tail fashion to give drivers as much loco time as possible.

From the summer timetable 2018 you should see the Mark 5 sets enter service on Liverpool to Scarborough and Man Air to Middlesbrough. This then frees up quite a few 185 units to start making more of those trains double sets all day - badly needed on some routes where trains are busy all day and not just in the peaks.

 

[xotGD]

Plans have changed. The Liverpool to Newcastle trains will be class 185 operated until the Hitachi units arrive.

It was not set in solid gold that the loco hauled would ever go to Newcastle anyway, unless for driver training. This (driver training) will now be with the Mk3 set if it ever arrives - in top and tail fashion to give drivers as much loco time as possible.

From the summer timetable 2018 you should see the Mark 5 sets enter service on Liverpool to Scarborough and Man Air to Middlesbrough. This then frees up quite a few 185 units to start making more of those trains double sets all day - badly needed on some routes where trains are busy all day and not just in the peaks.

Many thanks for the update.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is this thread being restricted to Scarborough updates or can we discuss any Northern/TPE timetable changes for December 17 in here? Please let me know if there's another thread for more general changes/improvements and, if possible, send me a link since I currently cannot appear to find one.

 

[Greybeard33]

Is this thread being restricted to Scarborough updates or can we discuss any Northern/TPE timetable changes for December 17 in here? Please let me know if there's another thread for more general changes/improvements and, if possible, send me a link since I currently cannot appear to find one.

Most of the timetable changes related to the Ordsall Chord and Bolton/Blackpool electrification have been postponed to May 2018 since this thread was started. For Northern changes, see http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2949864#post2949864 for Dec 2017 and http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=3016716#post3016716 for May 2018.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Most of the timetable changes related to the Ordsall Chord and Bolton/Blackpool electrification have been postponed to May 2018 since this thread was started. For Northern changes, see http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2949864#post2949864 for Dec 2017 and http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=3016716#post3016716 for May 2018.

Many thanks for that; just what I was looking for! No wonder I couldn't see the link to December 17; it's not been updated for two months so must be way down on Page 10 or something like that!