Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
From what has been said on here it sounds like there is an issue with alcohol abuse in the UK. I enjoy a drink occasionally but I cannot relate to the desire to get paralytic to the point of losing control. Could it be linked to mental health issues?
I really enjoy a drink and like going to beer festivals. What I don’t like is travelling on a train on a Saturday morning when crowds get on carrying carrier bags full of cans of beer and immediately start drinking. I do not like the smell of beer at 9am in the morning. I very rarely travel Saturday afternoons and evening unless I check very carefully first which football matches are taking place along the route. On the few times that I have been caught out and been on a train full of football fans drinking, swearing, singing and banging on the tables and backs of seats, I found it not just unpleasant but quite threatening and intimidating.
The two things are linked though. It's the bad/inadequate service that causes a lot of the issues. You wouldn't treat animals the way rail passengers are treated at weekends in the UK at the moment on a lot of platforms/services. I say weekends because the loadings on Sundays are horrendous.
When the trains are civilised (everyone gets a seat, the services actually run as advertised with minimal delays, adequate rolling stock etc) you get much less behavioural related issues.
How do you think passengers are being treated and in what way is it potentially worse than treating animals? Genuinely interested as I haven’t seen adults or animals abused by staff on the railway. Also, you suggest all passengers should have seats, which is great in an ideal world, but the ticket just buys a ride from A to B with no guarantee of a seat. Sadly on some services passengers put their bags on seats refusing to move them for other passengers. On other services there just aren’t enough carriages.
And most places in south east London. And many GTR trains! It’s a rather disgusting, sickly smell. Far worse than tobacco (and yes, I smoked a few joints at uni, as I’m sure most of us did).
And most places in south east London. And many GTR trains! It’s a rather disgusting, sickly smell. Far worse than tobacco (and yes, I smoked a few joints at uni, as I’m sure most of us did).
Victoria is by far and away the worst london terminal. It’s an absolute armpit of a place and needs redeveloping pronto. And as for the traincrew quarters…. sheesh
The two things are linked though. It's the bad/inadequate service that causes a lot of the issues. You wouldn't treat animals the way rail passengers are treated at weekends in the UK at the moment on a lot of platforms/services. I say weekends because the loadings on Sundays are horrendous.
When the trains are civilised (everyone gets a seat, the services actually run as advertised with minimal delays, adequate rolling stock etc) you get much less behavioural related issues.
And yet on my lines the capacity is the same as pre COVID on all lines. The only slight variation on Saturday's compared to weekday is the earlier last train out of Lime St due to NR demanding line closure earlier. Sundays have the same number of services per hour just starting later too so this has zero impact on my experiences.
Sundays are horrendous because there is normally up to double the number of passengers travelling as those staying over from Friday and Saturday all seem to return back on the Sunday.
There is no extra units available, almost all trains are 8cars that can be so there's not a lot of wiggle room at my depot to have a more pleasant experience for passengers. It doesn't give anyone the right to ruin everybody else's that's in the exact same predicament.
Victoria is by far and away the worst london terminal. It’s an absolute armpit of a place and needs redeveloping pronto. And as for the traincrew quarters…. sheesh
Ugh. Couldn't agree more! Way to make a first impressions to tourists who've never come here before! First, they are greeted with a horrible Gatwick Airport (thankfully undergoing some work) Gatwick Airport. Then they travel to an even worse station, that seems to have never ending leaks on almost every Platform. Plat.19 has at least 20-30, all attempted, rather badly, to be caught in numerous buckets.
Although rather strangely, I have come to like the station for other things rather than what those dark, melancholy platforms look like.
Is Saturday Victoria's busiest day? Just to slide it back on topic.
In a word yes. It has become so apparent in this thread that there is a massive prejudice against football fans. As usual it a case of blame everybody else instead of actually trying to resolve the problem at hand, which I articulated up thread.
I'm sorry but you have got your blinkers on. The only people en-masse in stations - let alone the copious evidence above from train crew and on board - that requires a significant amount of BTP is for football fans. Not even other sports fans require this sort of intervention. They are the only groups I have seen vandalising stations, starting fights, leaving the place as their own personal dustbin, jumping in and out of retail outlets and trying to enter staff areas; in a distant second with this sort of behaviour is bored youths and stag and hen dos. It is a major cultural problem.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Ugh. Couldn't agree more! Way to make a first impressions to tourists who've never come here before! First, they are greeted with a horrible Gatwick Airport (thankfully undergoing some work) Gatwick Airport. Then they travel to an even worse station, that seems to have never ending leaks on almost every Platform. Plat.19 has at least 20-30, all attempted, rather badly, to be caught in numerous buckets.
Although rather strangely, I have come to like the station for other things rather than what those dark, melancholy platforms look like.
Is Saturday Victoria's busiest day? Just to slide it back on topic.
Probably nowhere is Saturday's busiest day (even taking into account strikes). @Bald Rick might like to clarify, but I think it is believed to be Thursday that is the railways busiest day overall, although Saturday does seem to have some intense spikes in demand.
I'm sorry but you have got your blinkers on. The only people en-masse in stations - let alone the copious evidence above from train crew and on board - that requires a significant amount of BTP is for football fans. Not even other sports fans require this sort of intervention. They are the only groups I have seen vandalising stations, starting fights, leaving the place as their own personal dustbin, jumping in and out of retail outlets and trying to enter staff areas; in a distant second with this sort of behaviour is bored youths and stag and hen dos. It is a major cultural problem.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Probably nowhere is Saturday's busiest day. @Bald Rick might like to clarify, but I think it is believed to be Thursday that is the railways busiest day overall, although Saturday does seem to have some intense spikes in demand.
I just thought, more children are off school, more families may go by train to certain places, but I have now remembered, you have to take away the large commuter traffic which gives a significant amount of ridership.
And yet on my lines the capacity is the same as pre COVID on all lines. The only slight variation on Saturday's compared to weekday is the earlier last train out of Lime St due to NR demanding line closure earlier. Sundays have the same number of services per hour just starting later too so this has zero impact on my experiences.
Sundays are horrendous because there is normally up to double the number of passengers travelling as those staying over from Friday and Saturday all seem to return back on the Sunday.
There is no extra units available, almost all trains are 8cars that can be so there's not a lot of wiggle room at my depot to have a more pleasant experience for passengers. It doesn't give anyone the right to ruin everybody else's that's in the exact same predicament.
It depends on the TOC as well. TPEX, EMR and Cross Country in particular are horrendous for overcrowding now at weekends. Avanti quite bad as well with the reduced (and still unreliable) timetable and LNR having to pick up the slack, affecting the service on their trains. My experience with Northern is it's fine when 4 carriages turn up and an unpleasant journey when its 2.
Most of these TOCS are not running to a 2019 frequency.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
How do you think passengers are being treated and in what way is it potentially worse than treating animals? Genuinely interested as I haven’t seen adults or animals abused by staff on the railway. Also, you suggest all passengers should have seats, which is great in an ideal world, but the ticket just buys a ride from A to B with no guarantee of a seat. Sadly on some services passengers put their bags on seats refusing to move them for other passengers. On other services there just aren’t enough carriages.
A lot of the overcrowding is just downright dangerous. People are herded like cattle (treated like animals at least) and pay through the nose for the privilege of being squashed for multiple hours.
I appreciate everyone getting a seat isn't always practical.
A lot of the overcrowding is just downright dangerous. People are herded like cattle (treated like animals at least) and pay through the nose for the privilege of being squashed for multiple hours.
Perhaps they should just legalise it?
It’s openly smoked everywhere as we all know, and I’m pretty sure the police won’t even arrest people who are in possession of small amounts, so already de facto legal.
Victoria is by far and away the worst london terminal. It’s an absolute armpit of a place and needs redeveloping pronto. And as for the traincrew quarters…. sheesh
Probably nowhere is Saturday's busiest day (even taking into account strikes). @Bald Rick might like to clarify, but I think it is believed to be Thursday that is the railways busiest day overall, although Saturday does seem to have some intense spikes in demand.
I haven’t seen the numbers for Victoria for a little while, but now that demand is flatlining the busiest day of the week can be almost any weekday. Recent weeks have had Fridays, Thursdays, Wednesdays and Mondays all being busiest. (There is some strike effect in there). However what is absolutely certain is that Saturdays are not the busiest. Typically they have traffic 60-70% of that experienced on a weekday.
Yeah, that bit is also nice, could do with a real deep clean on the roof but then all wonder you had for the station quickly disappears when you head down to Platform 15-19
On the flip side, what is the least travelled day on the Network, Friday or Sunday maybe?
Yeah, that bit is also nice, could do with a real deep clean on the roof but then all wonder you had for the station quickly disappears when you head down to Platform 15-19
On the flip side, what is the least travelled day on the Network, Friday or Sunday maybe?
Yet regularly on here people suggest the Sunday service should be the same as on a weekday!
I know there’s an element of chicken and egg given that services are so reduced, but ultimately far fewer people travel on Sunday, certainly on commuter TOCs.
I haven’t seen the numbers for Victoria for a little while, but now that demand is flatlining the busiest day of the week can be almost any weekday. Recent weeks have had Fridays, Thursdays, Wednesdays and Mondays all being busiest. (There is some strike effect in there). However what is absolutely certain is that Saturdays are not the busiest. Typically they have traffic 60-70% of that experienced on a weekday.
I think it shows just how much the peaks inflate passenger numbers for weekdays. When I travel about on Saturday Off Peak trains frequently look busier than equiavelent off peak weekday trains.
A lot of the time people are paying a lot of money to travel by train in good faith, expecting a seat (or booking a seat). Then they get on the train and its crush loaded. You can either stand around for ages (outside London at least) waiting for the next one, or go and book a hotel and hope it's not as busy tomorrow. If you have a need to travel you don't always have a choice, or if you're booked on a particular train.
Yet regularly on here people suggest the Sunday service should be the same as on a weekday!
I know there’s an element of chicken and egg given that services are so reduced, but ultimately far fewer people travel on Sunday, certainly on commuter TOCs.
As I guess that's where looking at network wide figures skew everything. Busiest day for the network is when London commuters use it most.
Would love to double up the frequency of Lime St - New St or Euston - Crewe services on LNWR on Sundays as we have to resort to closing doors before time (especially Euston) due to overcrowding issues on trains. No other day of the week and at the same 1tph frequency
Yet regularly on here people suggest the Sunday service should be the same as on a weekday!
I know there’s an element of chicken and egg given that services are so reduced, but ultimately far fewer people travel on Sunday, certainly on commuter TOCs.
The commuting market is dead all day Sunday, and the long distance market is dead for the first half of the day. And it’s nothing to do with service provision - for comparison in the long distance market check out the number of U.K. domestic flights on Sunday mornings compared to a weekday morning. The market isn’t there.
Yeah, that bit is also nice, could do with a real deep clean on the roof but then all wonder you had for the station quickly disappears when you head down to Platform 15-19
A lot of the time people are paying a lot of money to travel by train in good faith, expecting a seat (or booking a seat). Then they get on the train and its crush loaded. You can either stand around for ages (outside London at least) waiting for the next one, or go and book a hotel and hope it's not as busy tomorrow. If you have a need to travel you don't always have a choice.
I always used to go for dinner first if it looked like I wouldn’t get onto a train straight away. I generally found that I could not only get onto a slightly later train but even have a seat and some space to myself.
That said, many still felt the need to shoehorn themselves into already packed carriages. There was no-one on the platform driving them in through the doors. No, they just did it to themselves of their own volition. Granted this was the thick end of 20 years ago before the current flexible working revolution when the vast majority of folk still had to go to an office and work a 9 to 5 day, so things really should be a bit easier now on the commuting front at least.
But crowded trains have been a fact of life ever since Brunel was in short trousers. Capacity is finite and when demand outstrips this you will end up with packed trains. I’m not sure precisely what it is that we’re meant to do about that.
I know what you mean, however I think at least some of this is superficial. The amount of alcohol and substance abuse which goes on - in certain towns it’s not uncommon to find the air reeks of cannabis in the evening - doesn’t exactly point to everything being rosy.
I can give you a few places which reeks of cannabis on an evening take Halifax, Brighouse, Huddersfield, Trowbridge, Bristol and Frome. Any services from Leeds to Manchester either via Bradford or Huddersfield will be rammed full of fully tanked neathandals either yelling at full volume, pratting with the toilet passcom, banging tables and on one TransPennine service some chain wearing clown climbing into/on to the overhead rack, had he fallen and got his chain caught on one of the seat grab handles not only would he have necked himself but I doubt rail staff would want to clean up any blood caused by incorrect usage of an overhead rack. Can't blame rail staff not wanting to work Saturdays.
There used to be football specials that took fans to games. The problem is there just isn't the capacity anymore to accommodate a lot of football fans when even without big football games on the trains are rammed solid.
The rail industry just can't accommodate these large groups of people anymore and people going to large events in general (at least outside of London).
Those football specials can make a come back soon once the class 150's are retired from mainline operations, they can be retained and left as since it wouldn't matter too much if they got trashed since they'd only be used for event extras.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
.
