Sankey to Swindon

[exile]

I'm in possession of a return (off peak) from Sankey to Swindon and am trying to find a valid route.

I don't want to have to transfer between stations, so Liverpool South Parkway is my preferred route.

So:-

1. Nationalrail.co.uk

This offers routes via Liverpool South Parkway, Birmingham and Bristol Parkway

A link is offered to CrossCountry, which is quite happy to sell me a ticket for this route (ie via Liverpool South Parkway)

2. Redspottedhanky.co.uk

Again, quite happy to sell me a ticket, and the itinerary it suggests is via Liverpool South Parkway.

3. Virgintrains.co.uk

This will sell me a SINGLE ticket via this route but not a RETURN. In fact it will not sell a return ticket via ANY route.

Any idea why?

It does appear than Liverpool South Parkway is not a valid route according to the NRG.

So - Virgintrains is refusing to sell a return ticket via an invalid route - which is fine. But why is it selling a SINGLE ticket for the same route? Why is it not offering an alternative route? And why are the other vendors selling return tickets via the same route?

And - am I allowed to use the ticket I have purchased via Liverpool South Parkway? I have a printed itinerary for this route.

thanks

 

[Romilly]

The routeing guide says that to find mapped permitted journeys between Sankey and Swindon you need to look at mapped routes between Warrington Group and Swindon. Having looked at those routes, none of them goes via Liverpool South Parkway so far as I can see. Which explains why I cannot get National Rail Enquiries to give me any itineraries via Liverpool South Parkway for the £77.30 offpeak return ticket. As soon as I tell NRE to avoid London, and avoid Liverpool South Parkway, I do get itineraries for that ticket, including a lot that don't include the walk between the two Warrington stations. On the other hand, I can get the C2C website (which uses the Webtis Mixing Deck) to offer via Liverpool South Parkway itineraries for your ticket. Ultimately, as a matter of contract law, you should be able to use a ticket for a journey following the itinerary given to you when you bought the ticket.

As well as mapped routes, the shortest route between two stations is always a permitted route, as is any route within 3 miles of the shortest, and you are always able to take a through train on an "any permitted" ticket whatever route it follows. Presumably the different journey planners are differently interpreting the rules about journey distance and mapped routes.

Edit: the no-walk routes given for the £77.30 ticket by NRE include: Sankey-Warrington Central-Manchester Piccadilly-Oxford-Didcot-Swindon and Swindon-Cheltenham-Tamworth-Manchester Piccadilly-Warrington Central-Sankey

Correction: I have managed to get NRE to give itineraries for the ticket via Liverpool South Parkway, Birmingham New Street and Cheltenham, but not via Bristol Parkway. I did this by specifying "Avoid London". Railmiles suggests the route via Liverpool South Parkway, Birmingham New Street and Cheltenham (but not Bristol) is the shortest at 179 miles and 79 chains (effectively 180 miles): if that is the case, it would be valid.

 

[exile]

Thanks - I did suspect the shortest is via Liverpool South Parkway and Cheltenham - but that isn't the itinerary suggested by the redspottedhanky (which is Liverpool South Parkway/Bristol Parkway). Virgin does offer an Liverpool South Parkway/Cheltenham option but (1) this journey is 30 minutes longer (0915-1405 rather than 0915-1329) (2) it's only offered for a single journey - no route is offered at all for a return journey. I bought the ticket at a Virgin Trains office and was not given an itinerary at the time, because the system couldn't find a route so I was sold an open return (this also works with virgintrains.co.uk - if you don't select a date/time for your return trip it sells you an open return, with the outward journey via Liverpool South Parkway/Cheltenham). As you've pointed out "Avoiding London" does work, though which route you're offered depends on the vendor. I've printed off an itinerary from redspottedhanky with the route I want. Via Manchester does appear to be a valid route according to the NRG, but this route is not offered by any vendor, besides having a longer journey time. BTW, this issue doesn't affect journeys from Sankey to, say, Oxford, Didcot or Reading, where Liverpool South Parkway routes are definitely valid. Besides my practical problem of deciding whether the quickest and most convenient route is valid or not, the whole thing is bizarre - why should the validity of a route depend on who you are buying the ticket from? If you buy an open return, how do you know if your return journey is valid or not? Why should selecting a RESTRICTION on your journey, ie "Avoid London" suddenly cause extra valid journeys to appear? As far as my journey is concerned (1) My ticket will be valid as I head off to Liverpool South Parkway and travel as far as Stafford, and then head down to Cheltenham. (2) Technically, it may then become invalid if I stay on the train to Bristol, rather than change at Cheltenham. But train staff are not going to know whether I started off my journey via Liverpool South Parkway, by crossing Warrington on foot, or travelling via Manchester, and it's only the combination of travelling via Liverpool South Parkway and via Bristol Parkway that appears to be invalid (if indeed they know where Sankey is). It gets worse - try selecting a "Via Warrington" using virgintrains.co.uk and you will be offered very few journeys indeed - and those via Didcot! Despite "via Warrington" being clearly a valid route according to NRG.

 

[bkhtele]

Broadly long distance "the North" to Swindon are valid via Cheltenham, Bristol Parkway (in practice via Bristol Templemeads) & oxford via Didcot (there is also an easement via Reading).

 

[SwindonBert]

Broadly long distance "the North" to Swindon are valid via Cheltenham, Bristol Parkway (in practice via Bristol Templemeads) & oxford via Didcot (there is also an easement via Reading).

Personally I use Cheltenham or Parkway as it's less hassle, especially if you have baggage