Same train, but only half way distant .. more than double the price

[Willie Bee]

My wife and I recently got a Two Together railcard, so have already had a trip to London resulting in a saving more than the card actually cost (£20 on offer) and we've also booked another trip to Edinburgh.

Now just playing, I find a return ticket to Carlise from Newcastle In January for about £8 .. a bit of a bargain for the two of us. then i think, how about Hexham instead, it's the same train, and maybe half-way between Newcastle and Carlisle, so that'll be even cheaper .. crazy good deal ..

But no .. it's about £20

So for travelling half the distance on the same train, it would cost more than double the price .. so 400% more expensive / mile

What's going on ?

if i bought the ticket to Carlisle i am sure I could get off early, ie at Hexham, but would I be able to board the return train?

 

[Benjwri]

Are you able to share more details on the dates you are trying to travel? Without these what I’m about to say is just guesswork.

But no .. it's about £20

I assume this means you are planning on travelling out on a different day to the return? Therefore buying 4 Off Peak Day single (CDS) tickets for £5.05 each. There are times this works out more expensive, as there are only Day returns for this flow, with the assumption being the distance is so little people will not be staying overnight away from home.

Now just playing, I find a return ticket to Carlise from Newcastle In January for about £8

I do not see a way that this is possible, unless you are actually buying 4 Advance Single (DG0) tickets for £1.95 each. Neither the Single nor Return fares undercut the fares to Hexham, and this would be a rather serious oversight if they did.

If it is the Advance fares you are looking at these are priced cheaper because they do not give you the flexibility of other fares, and you can only travel on the specified train, and are therefore given a saving.

if i bought the ticket to Carlisle i am sure I could get off early, ie at Hexham, but would I be able to board the return train?

To say for sure we would need to know the exact ticket you are planning on buying. Although in general for a flexible ticket (Anytime/Off Peak ticket) break of journey is allowed, and therefore you may finish or start your journey at any station along the route. There are some examples where this isn’t allowed, so make sure to read the restrictions or ask here.
If you are undead actually buying an advance ticket as I suspect, a break of journey is not allowed, so you would not be allowed to finish or start your journey early.

 

[30907]

Benjwri has identified this issue.

To do NCL-CAR for £8 return means using Advance tickets at the cheapest possible price, and when these sell out the fare jumps to minimum £20 return).
Advance fares are only available between selected pairs of stations, and that doesn't generally include short distances such as Newcastle to Hexham.

 

[Watershed]

My wife and I recently got a Two Together railcard, so have already had a trip to London resulting in a saving more than the card actually cost (£20 on offer) and we've also booked another trip to Edinburgh.

Now just playing, I find a return ticket to Carlise from Newcastle In January for about £8 .. a bit of a bargain for the two of us. then i think, how about Hexham instead, it's the same train, and maybe half-way between Newcastle and Carlisle, so that'll be even cheaper .. crazy good deal ..

But no .. it's about £20

So for travelling half the distance on the same train, it would cost more than double the price .. so 400% more expensive / mile

What's going on ?

if i bought the ticket to Carlisle i am sure I could get off early, ie at Hexham, but would I be able to board the return train?

Based on the prices you're quoting, it sounds like you are seeing the cheapest tier of Advances each way (£1.95 / DG0) and are returning the next day.

Unfortunately Advances don't allow starting late or finishing short. In the direction towards Carlisle this is effectively unenforceable as Hexham doesn't have barriers (so nothing stops you from just getting off). However, in the other direction it's more enforceable as it will be the same guard all the way between Carlisle and Newcastle, and they will likely realise that you've boarded en-route. They could charge you an excess fare for breaking your journey where not permitted to do so.

The cheapest 'legitimate' option would be to still buy a ticket to Carlisle, but an Anytime Short Distance Return (SHR) rather than Advances. SHRs allow break of journey/starting late/finishing short. There isn't an SHR from Newcastle to Hexham, so for overnight journeys it's cheaper to buy an SHR to Carlisle, and finish short/start late, than two singles to Hexham.

It's unfortunate that there are no Advances to Hexham but Northern aren't under any obligation to offer Advances, and generally only do so for longer journeys or those where they face competition from other operators or modes of transport.

 

[Benjwri]

it's cheaper to buy an SHR to Carlisle, and finish short/start late, than two singles to Hexham.

What fare option are you getting for it to work out cheaper? Even assuming peak travel, returning on a different day, it is £5.10 for an SDS Anytime Day Single from Newcastle or Hexham, working out at £20.40 for the 2 of them.
The price of a SHR to Carlisle is £15.55, working out at £31.10 for the trip for the two of them, meaning the option of 4 singles is cheaper.

 

[Willie Bee]

Thanks for your replies ... we'll probably just go to Carlisle ... it's a nice route along the Tyne I believe .. and it's a decent day out for two oldies

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for your replies ... we'll probably just go to Carlisle ... it's a nice route along the Tyne I believe .. and it's a decent day out for two oldies

To be clear, if you are looking at the price of a day out, returning the same day, a pair of Off Peak Day Returns from Newcastle to Hexham with a railcard discount applied will cost a grand total of £10.20.

 

[Willie Bee]

To be clear, if you are looking at the price of a day out, returning the same day, a pair of Off Peak Day Returns from Newcastle to Hexham with a railcard discount applied will cost a grand total of £10.20.

many thanks for that

Just looked now and it's £2 each journey for the two of us ... crazy !

Wish we had got a railcard before

 

[Benjwri]

Wow that is quite interesting. It seems overnight the Newcastle to Hexham flow has received a makeover, including getting season tickets, duo fares and advance tickets. One has to wonder whether someone reading this thread took pity on you, otherwise that is one hell of a coincidence.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Hexham had Duo's from Newcastle when I worked in the Travel Centre years ago

 

[Haywain]

Hexham had Duo's from Newcastle when I worked in the Travel Centre years ago

I’m surprised you can remember.

 

[Benjwri]

Hexham had Duo's from Newcastle when I worked in the Travel Centre years ago

Ahh I’ve just realised they don’t show up on brfares when you search for railcard prices, my bad

 

[skyhigh]

Wow that is quite interesting. It seems overnight the Newcastle to Hexham flow has received a makeover, including getting season tickets, duo fares and advance tickets. One has to wonder whether someone reading this thread took pity on you, otherwise that is one hell of a coincidence.

It's had Advance tickets for ages. There was just no availability on that date until now for whatever reason.

 

[Benjwri]

It's had Advance tickets for ages. There was just no availability on that date until now for whatever reason.

Yeah my bad, I didn’t see them because they aren’t railcard discountable.

 

[30907]

Yeah my bad, I didn’t see them because they aren’t railcard discountable.

No, it's because they are Sale Advance fares and BRFares has no dates for them to be available - they will be pending the next update!
They are not normal Advance fares.

 

[Benjwri]

No, it's because they are Sale Advance fares and BRFares has no dates for them to be available - they will be pending the next update!
They are not normal Advance fares.

They come up on BR Fares, just not when you search for Two Together Railcard fares using the simple version, as I did. The same is true with the duo fares. They are not discountable with a two together railcard, as is shown in the above screenshot

 

[30907]

They come up on BR Fares, just not when you search for Two Together Railcard fares using the simple version, as I did. The same is true with the duo fares. They are not discountable with a two together railcard, as is shown in the above screenshot

From the Carlisle Derailment thread - they appear to be special fares to mark the restoration of normal service. See #405.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...cement-gb-to-carlisle-n-y-6c00.238492/page-14