Same destination, same departure time, same train company

[roversfan2001]

You don't need the "to Alicante" if you have the flight number.

Fair point, but my point still stands.

And how much of "the 1030 to Alicante" is because train numbers aren't used, so infrequent British air travellers are unfamiliar with the idea of unique service IDs?

It could be down to that, or it could be down to 'where are we going and at what time' being something that everyone will be well aware of, and is their main thought while looking at a departure board. It's potentially also easier to pick out of a long list of flights than a string of characters.

I wasn't arguing for or against train numbers being used in the UK, just pointing out that "well people know and use flight numbers" isn't necessarily true for everyone.

 

[Clip]

You don't need the "to Alicante" if you have the flight number.

How much do British hollidayers use the airline? And how much of "the 1030 to Alicante" is because train numbers aren't used, so infrequent British air travellers are unfamiliar with the idea of unique service IDs?

Its not that we are not used to them as we see them on the board however they mean very little in the grand scheme of things - 103 to alicante and its blue logo - Ryanair - 1035 to alicante and its an orange logo and its easyjet.

All very simple stuff

 

[frediculous]

Not quite the same thing, but at Finsbury Park now, there's the 1746 Great Northern (Class 717) to Welwyn Garden City and on the other platform face is the 1746 Thameslink service to Welwyn Garden City (Class 700).

Different operators, slightly different calling pattern, very slightly different stock. Saw a number of people getting on the wrong one and jumping back off.

(Apologies for resurrecting an old thread)

 

[A S Leib]

Different operators

Isn't it the same operator, different brands?

 

[hkstudent]

Not quite the same thing, but at Finsbury Park now, there's the 1746 Great Northern (Class 717) to Welwyn Garden City and on the other platform face is the 1746 Thameslink service to Welwyn Garden City (Class 700).

Different operators, slightly different calling pattern, very slightly different stock. Saw a number of people getting on the wrong one and jumping back off.

(Apologies for resurrecting an old thread)

This explains the need to mark intercity / fast / semi-fast / local, like the rest of Europe (particularly in Germany) so that people won't get confused about the calling pattern of trains.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes the separate planners didn't think this through - was probably a result of the timetable change!

Realtime Trains | 2V22 1731 Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City | 19/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 2V22 1731 departure from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City on 19/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 9Y92 1622 Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City | 19/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 9Y92 1622 departure from Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City on 19/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This explains the need to mark intercity / fast / semi-fast / local, like the rest of Europe (particularly in Germany) so that people won't get confused about the calling pattern of trains.

Probably doesn't help in this instance as both of these would probably be described as "local", although the Thameslink one does skip a few stops

 

[hkstudent]

Yes the separate planners didn't think this through - was probably a result of the timetable change!

Realtime Trains | 2V22 1731 Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City | 19/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 2V22 1731 departure from Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City on 19/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 9Y92 1622 Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City | 19/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 9Y92 1622 departure from Sevenoaks to Welwyn Garden City on 19/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Probably doesn't help in this instance as both of these would probably be described as "local", although the Thameslink one does skip a few stops

When Thameslink only calls 5 out of 9 intermediate stations, it can be called semi-fast, in a similar manner to RE trains in Germany.

 

[miklcct]

This explains the need to mark intercity / fast / semi-fast / local, like the rest of Europe (particularly in Germany) so that people won't get confused about the calling pattern of trains.

A major problem here is that the calling pattern varies on the same line between different departures, and a train can be sometimes fast and sometimes slow.

For example, the xx:35 from Victoria to Southampton normally runs fast to Barnham, then semi-fast to Southampton Central, however, the 19:35 waits for a few minutes at Barnham into the slot of the slow train and pick up the slow calls afterwards, and also with extra calls between Swanwick and Southampton, and the 20:35 runs slow between Barnham and Havant but doesn't have the extra calls after Swanwick.

Only if we can standardise all the calling patterns we can successfully set up categories.

 

[Horizon22]

When Thameslink only calls 5 out of 9 intermediate stations, it can be called semi-fast, in a similar manner to RE trains in Germany.

Possibly, but the train is still stopping every 5 minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This explains the need to mark intercity / fast / semi-fast / local, like the rest of Europe (particularly in Germany) so that people won't get confused about the calling pattern of trains.

I'm all for train categories, but in the UK people mostly just read the calling points.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This explains the need to mark intercity / fast / semi-fast / local, like the rest of Europe (particularly in Germany) so that people won't get confused about the calling pattern of trains.

What do you do about intercity or fast services that become the local/stopper/only train at the country end of the route?

There are many things that European railways do better than we do, but simply lifting their methods wholesale and forcing them onto our very different railway without adjustments to suit, would just create more confusion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do you do about intercity or fast services that become the local/stopper/only train at the country end of the route?

There are many things that European railways do better than we do, but simply lifting their methods wholesale and forcing them onto our very different railway without adjustments to suit, would just create more confusion.

That's certainly one where us and Germany differ. For local stuff they used to have the "StadtExpress" designation for a train that does all stations until it reaches the S-Bahn outer station then runs fast, but they're just REs now.

There aren't many cases of an IC that does all stops on a branch line at the end, but there have been such trains that run as IC and then become a RE. This is probably even more confusing; the reason they do that is because ticketing and subsidy is closely bound to the categorisation, and you'd not necessarily have to replicate that here because neither is here. If you're talking Weymouth or Windermere, both would probably get an IR or similar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's certainly one where us and Germany differ. For local stuff they used to have the "StadtExpress" designation for a train that does all stations until it reaches the S-Bahn outer station then runs fast, but they're just REs now.

There aren't many cases of an IC that does all stops on a branch line at the end, but there have been such trains that run as IC and then become a RE. This is probably even more confusing; the reason they do that is because ticketing and subsidy is closely bound to the categorisation, and you'd not necessarily have to replicate that here because neither is here. If you're talking Weymouth or Windermere, both would probably get an IR or similar.

Weymouth (or in the past, certain Paddington to Weston-super-Mare runs) were what I was thinking of.
My issue really is with the categorisation in the first place. We don't operate our railway in a way that lends itself to neat separation of different traffic "types" in the way that many European countries do, and doing it "because the Germans do" is not a good reason in and of itself (and I say that as a self-confessed Germanophile).

 

[pne]

Belgium is weird. Apart from Brussels, everything is in the local language, even afaik the names of Flemish cities in French-speaking areas and vice versa.

I remember being confused at signage for "Rijsel"; my map only had "Lille" on it.