Same bridge struck three times in under a week

[Bald Rick]

Noting that many people are looking forward to the abolition of the Schedule 8 performance regimes (at least for GBR’s own trains on its own infrastructure) presumably the £690,599.44 ‘cost’ of a bridge strike on a busy London route won’t exist in the same way.

Not in the same way, but I would expect the cosst of passenger compensation to be claimed. The tricky area will be revenue not gained (which is included within schedule 8).

If delay attribution is also abolished, as called for or expected by some, presumably nobody will ever know how much disruption was down to the bridge strike anyway.

DA won’t be abolished. If anything it will be strengthened, as there will be fewer disputes, providing more time for actual investigation and attributing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Many overbridges with a level deck have the height in a red circle (arched bridges seem to usually have the max. height at the centre in a triangle). Driving under a prohibition (red circle) sign displaying a lower height than that of your vehicle would seem to be an absolute offence, i.e., no defence - like exceeding a speed limit. But I'm not sure whether the offence is just 'careless driving' though.

Arched bridges get a warning triangle rather than the circle because they show the height in terms of an imaginary line inbetween the associated white ‘goal post’ markings. They are set at the typical width of a rectangular shaped vehicle or trailer. But a significantly narrower vehicle, or one with a rounder body such as a tanker, can be higher than the marked height. So at an arch bridge they’re effectively allowing the driver more discretion.

 

[PG]

If I didn't know that route (as a passenger on the top deck) and saw that coming towards me I would probably crap myself, throw myself on the floor or down the stairs if I could get to them, or stamp like hell on the floor over the driver's head!
What are they playing at?

Many years ago when I was being shown a route the driver pointed out, at 40mph, an aproaching railway bridge with a red triangle warning signed for 3 inches lower than the double decker we were in. It was explained that the bus did indeed fit and that when I was driving in the future I'd often be able to observe, via the periscope, the front seat passengers ducking upon approach. In fairness to them the speed and angle of approach did make it seem like the bus wasn't going to fit.

 

[cool110]

Arched bridges get a warning triangle rather than the circle because they show the height in terms of an imaginary line inbetween the associated white ‘goal post’ markings. They are set at the typical width of a rectangular shaped vehicle or trailer. But a significantly narrower vehicle, or one with a rounder body such as a tanker, can be higher than the marked height. So at an arch bridge they’re effectively allowing the driver more discretion.

Some even have two sets of signs and goal posts, to show at what height they should straddle both lanes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Some even have two sets of signs and goal posts, to show at what height they should straddle both lanes.

Many have carriageway line markings to show the safest route, and there’s other signs to tell all traffic that high vehicles will be in the centre of the arch, or taking a ‘skewed’ path. It all adds up to more visual cues…

 

[Horizon22]

DA won’t be abolished. If anything it will be strengthened, as there will be fewer disputes, providing more time for actual investigation and attributing.

Indeed; root cause analysis is incredibly powerful and hopefully in future there would be less “blame” and back and forth but rather genuine investigation.

Delays will still be categorised accordingly so trends can be assessed.

 

[philthetube]

My suggested actions are:

1. The driver has to attend a driver conduct hearing before the Traffic Commissioner. The driver should be in jeopardy of losing his vocational driving licence entitlement for 6 months, and then be required to retake and pass the practical part of the driving test before the entitlement is restored.
2. The Operator Transport Manager has to attend a hearing before the Traffic Commissioner. The TM should lose their good repute for 12 months after which it can only be regained once he / she retakes and and passes the TM CPC examination.
3. The operator licence has a condition attached by which the licence can not be varied to increase the number of vehicles or open a new operating centre for 12 months.
4. All operators should be required to have a map showing all low bridges within a 50 mile radius on display at the operating centre where it is clearly visible to all drivers when signing on.

Agree with 1&4, however would you suggest that 2&3 also apply to train operators, if not why not?

Both are staff errors with staff ignoring danger signs?

Worth bearing in mind that drivers are often punished by insurance companies who may refuse to allow companies to insure individuals.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Arched bridges get a warning triangle rather than the circle because they show the height in terms of an imaginary line inbetween the associated white ‘goal post’ markings. They are set at the typical width of a rectangular shaped vehicle or trailer. But a significantly narrower vehicle, or one with a rounder body such as a tanker, can be higher than the marked height. So at an arch bridge they’re effectively allowing the driver more discretion.

Having been involved with bus preservation for a long time we've sometimes had recourse to using arch bridges by necessity. One that I particularly remember was when we were on the way to the Weymouth rally and unexpectedly* encountered one on the approach to Salisbury from the Andover direction. It was then (50 years ago!) possible to hold up oncoming traffic while we cautiously drove through with guidance from on foot, but, today, I expect that attempting this would just result in road rage...

An interesting aspect of the prohibition height limits is this. They usually give some tolerance, so a 13' 6" bridge might be signed as 13' 3". The height of the usuaal lowbridge bus is 13' 5" so one could drive one safely under the bridge but still commit an offence.

* Our widely travelled 'Express' drivers had overlooked that one...

 

[Meerkat]

Do Network Rail/BTP or anyone else in the rail industry have the right to investigate or get to see a local police investigation into each and every bridge strike, such that they can build the data for why its happening that can then inform a media campaign or push for new/changed regulations/laws?

 

[Titfield]

Do Network Rail/BTP or anyone else in the rail industry have the right to investigate or get to see a local police investigation into each and every bridge strike, such that they can build the data for why its happening that can then inform a media campaign or push for new/changed regulations/laws?

Afaik the data is shared. The reality is that it is known what is happening ie what the cause of the accident is. The problem is we dont know why signs which are in the vision of the driver are being ignored. Why is the drivers brain failing to link low bridge warning with driving a high vehicle and acting accordingly.

 

[Harpo]

DA won’t be abolished. If anything it will be strengthened, as there will be fewer disputes

Back to ‘impact minutes’ then.

 

[Titfield]

and now we know how seriously Traffic Commissioners take bridge strikes!

Bridge Strike Traffic Commissioner Action reported in Route One Magazine 20 January 2025.

"Lincolnshire Road Car Co Ltd, trading as Stagecoach East Midlands, was given a strong formal warning by Deputy Traffic Commissioner (DTC) Dr Paul Stookes after its vehicles were involved in two bridge strikes within four months.

The DTC said that the company had been given warnings by TC Tim Blackmore in March 2021 and TC Richard Turfitt in March 2022 in relation to previous bridge strikes. In 2021 TC Blackmore gave the company a ‘soft warning’ and in 2022 TC Turfitt stated that on that occasion there would be no further action.

Regarding the company, the DTC considered that this case might be regarded as in the moderate to low category. In issuing a strong formal warning to the operator, he warned that if further incidents occurred, more formal regulatory action could not be ruled out. It needed to address the concerns that some employees that had been given management responsibilities, including the management of drivers, had been taking unacceptable decisions."

Off the three drivers involved in the two incidents: one no action, one vocational licence suspended for 1 month (after driver had temporarily ceased driving for Stagecoach for 3 months), one driver dismissed by company (no action reportedly taken by Traffic Commissioner).

 

[The exile]

so how about making the use of a suitable professional satnav absolutely mandatory? I can't understand why it is not - and coming from a railway perspective, I don't see why they shouldn't interface with the truck engine as well and cut it out if a conflict is imminent.

Indeed - failure to have a working and updated (what counrs as up to date tbc) Satnav programmed for high vehicles should render the vehicle unroadworthy.

 

[43066]

Indeed - failure to have a working and updated (what counrs as up to date tbc) Satnav programmed for high vehicles should render the vehicle unroadworthy.

Although again you can see how there’s scope for error if the tractor is pulling several different height trailers during one shift. The driver would need to reprogram the sat nav each time.

 

[styles]

This reminds me a little of the Lenton Lane tram bridge in Nottingham. It's a tram-only concrete bridge reached from a road where the concrete recesses from the rails as you move from road to bridge.

Every few months there's a story in the Nottingham Post about a car getting stuck on the bridge, as they end up one side of the rails.

For a long time I said well this is clearly a UX problem - there's only so many times it can happen before you say actually the signage or layout or something must be poor.

However, each time a car gets stuck, they seem to add another sign or road marking.

There is now:

• 1 navigation diagram sign with the bridge marked as tram only
• 3 merge right markers
• 1 set of solid white line separated diagonal hatchings
• 2 sets of red painted rumble strips
• 1 No Entry road marking
• 1 Tram Only road marking
• 2 no entry signs
• 1 tram only sign
• 2 large Trams Only bollards with no entry symbols
• 8 small Trams Only bollards with no entry symbols
• 1 large bollard with no entry symbol
• 4 hazard bollards
• 1 mandatory keep right bollard
• 1 solid white line separating the bridge from the road
• 1 'temporary' road sign reading 'Warning - Do not follow trams beyond this point', in all caps
• 1 set of lane guides directing you to avoid the bridge.

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If you miss all of those I have to believe that you're either distracted, intoxicated, very confident in your ability to drive a car on rails uphill, following a sat nav, or a mixture of those things.

The only way I could imagine fixing it would be to install an automatic barrier which trams can open but other vehicles can't, but no doubt someone would still manage to sneak through by tailgating a tram.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Indeed - failure to have a working and updated (what counrs as up to date tbc) Satnav programmed for high vehicles should render the vehicle unroadworthy.

Trouble is currently I believe use of a SatNav is not even mandatory - that would I feel be a big first step.

Or are SatNavs already ALWAYS installed as part of the basic lorry ?.

If no then unroadworthy would not work if the SatNav cannot even be considered a part of the vehicle. If I am correct then it is an accessory not yet something integral like lights ?.

So possibly a SatNav is currently less important legally than a driver failing to wear prescription glasses whilst driving.

 

[AndrewE]

Although again you can see how there’s scope for error if the tractor is pulling several different height trailers during one shift. The driver would need to reprogram the sat nav each time.

surely a driver can be mandated to reset the height after each trailer change? Or the satnav itself might be able to read when a trailer has been attached and require a new height input?

 

[Peter Sarf]

This reminds me a little of the Lenton Lane tram bridge in Nottingham. It's a tram-only concrete bridge reached from a road where the concrete recesses from the rails as you move from road to bridge.

Every few months there's a story in the Nottingham Post about a car getting stuck on the bridge, as they end up one side of the rails.

For a long time I said well this is clearly a UX problem - there's only so many times it can happen before you say actually the signage or layout or something must be poor.

However, each time a car gets stuck, they seem to add another sign or road marking.

There is now:

• 1 navigation diagram sign with the bridge marked as tram only
• 3 merge right markers
• 1 set of solid white line separated diagonal hatchings
• 2 sets of red painted rumble strips
• 1 No Entry road marking
• 1 Tram Only road marking
• 2 no entry signs
• 1 tram only sign
• 2 large Trams Only bollards with no entry symbols
• 8 small Trams Only bollards with no entry symbols
• 1 large bollard with no entry symbol
• 4 hazard bollards
• 1 mandatory keep right bollard
• 1 solid white line separating the bridge from the road
• 1 'temporary' road sign reading 'Warning - Do not follow trams beyond this point', in all caps
• 1 set of lane guides directing you to avoid the bridge.

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Street View · Google Maps

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If you miss all of those I have to believe that you're either distracted, intoxicated, very confident in your ability to drive a car on rails uphill, following a sat nav, or a mixture of those things.

The only way I could imagine fixing it would be to install an automatic barrier which trams can open but other vehicles can't, but no doubt someone would still manage to sneak through by tailgating a tram.

Amazing really.

I can only imagine one other excuse - the offending cars are following right behind the tram so do not see much in the way of road markings or signs. But the red painted rumble strips must be a clue, except perhaps if the road surfaces around there are so awful already !. In all the drivers must be on unfamiliar territory.

 

[43066]

surely a driver can be mandated to reset the height after each trailer change? Or the satnav itself might be able to read when a trailer has been attached and require a new height input?

In the same way the driver is already “mandated” not to drive under an underweight bridge, it isn’t foolproof; the driver might forget, or transpose digits while entering the information etc.

How would the satnav know the height input? You might have a flatbed trailer that delivers an excavator or container to a site and then drives away empty.

 

[styles]

Amazing really.

I can only imagine one other excuse - the offending cars are following right behind the tram so do not see much in the way of road markings or signs. But the red painted rumble strips must be a clue, except perhaps if the road surfaces around there are so awful already !. In all the drivers must be on unfamiliar territory.

Aye that's the other theory.

My favourite thing about it is the statements from Nottinghamshire Police saying the driver was given a £70 penalty charge notice for contravening a tram gate. No doubt reduced to £35 if you pay within a fortnight. Yeah, that'll teach 'em! Should be careless driving charge really.

 

[1955LR]

I firmly suspect the issue for drivers is that the road and tram lines rise just past the traffic lights & no entry signes . Ones eyes are drawn to the rise & dont focus on whats below the sight line. A similar situation, a road bridge over a rail line just behond a traffic light controlled junction with a side road , arose outside the factory where I worked. Drivers were time after time driving through red lights with often fatal consequences. The local coroner was raising the matter with the authorities after many an inquest. Before the lights were installed at the junction it was a give way from the side road and the issue didnt arise . I couldnt understand this it until one time I was driving up to the junction and realised I was focussing behond the lights and they had changed to red . I stopped in time but it gave me a jolt & reminded me to be more careful and to keep scanning the road around you.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I firmly suspect the issue for drivers is that the road and tram lines rise just past the traffic lights & no entry signes . Ones eyes are drawn to the rise & dont focus on whats below the sight line. A similar situation, a road bridge over a rail line just behond a traffic light controlled junction with a side road , arose outside the factory where I worked. Drivers were time after time driving through red lights with often fatal consequences. The local coroner was raising the matter with the authorities after many an inquest. Before the lights were installed at the junction it was a give way from the side road and the issue didnt arise . I couldnt understand this it until one time I was driving up to the junction and realised I was focussing behond the lights and they had changed to red . I stopped in time but it gave me a jolt & reminded me to be more careful and to keep scanning the road around you.

Ah that effect of looking too far ahead.

Another alarming/stunning example.
A dual carriage way (2+2 lanes) near me has a pelican crossing just before a light controlled junction. I have always feared that drivers might overlook the red on the pelican crossing if the junction beyond it changing from red to green. So when I cross as a pedestrian I look - it is a 40mph road and it has killed a few people. Now recently I was driving along said road and there were two cars neck and neck someway in front of me approaching the red pelican crossing. I said to my passenger - watch to see if one of those two cars missed the red and goes through it. They BOTH went through !.

This is why I believe if a certain kind of accident keeps happening at a certain location then it is time to consider if the location has an inherent problem. So it is time to fix the problem as you will never overcome the human weakness/flaw.

It is the same as a SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger). if it keeps re-occurring at one signal then the railway will look into issues such as signal sighting.

 

[Edsmith]

Indeed - failure to have a working and updated (what counrs as up to date tbc) Satnav programmed for high vehicles should render the vehicle unroadworthy.

Satnavs are part of the problem.

 

[AndrewE]

In the same way the driver is already “mandated” not to drive under an underweight bridge, it isn’t foolproof; the driver might forget, or transpose digits while entering the information etc.

agreed, which is why I wondered whether the satnav might "know" that a trailer had been changed and demand a new input...

How would the satnav know the height input? You might have a flatbed trailer that delivers an excavator or container to a site and then drives away empty.

At least that example doesn't fail to danger...
Our car is nearly 10 yrs old, but I still continue to be amazed at all the things it is monitoring (and frustrated by problems down to sensor failure.)
It must be possible (e.g.) to get a lorry system to recognise that the trailer air supply (or the electrics) has been broken and to then insist on a new height input after reconnection.

 

[norbitonflyer]

You might have a flatbed trailer that delivers an excavator or container to a site and then drives away empty.

Problem is more likely the other way round of course. Although I read of one case where a van got under a bridge to deliver something heavy but got stuck on the way out because it was now empty and sitting higher on its suspension.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2025 ==

Our car is nearly 10 yrs old, but I still continue to be amazed at all the things it is monitoring (and frustrated by problems down to sensor failure.)

Mine warns you of speed limits, but has two issues:
1. It often spots a 30 on a slip road when the main through route is still higher.
2. As well as reading signs, the sat nav data has speed limits encoded, but as the car is now 8 years old, much of the data is out of date.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2025 ==

Ah that effect of looking too far ahead.

We have one near us, with a pelican crossing just beyond a give way line, with the main road curving round from the right (it is a bypass at the point where it rejojn s the line of the original road - if approaching the junction on the old road you have to give way to the main road, but can see it stretching away ahead of you). I have seen several vehicles misled by the green light on the pelican (actually a "Pegasus") and sailing blithely across the give way line in the path of three lanes of main line traffic.

 

[KNN]

Railway bridge hit for fourth time this month as trains cancelled again

The 14ft bridge, which carries the Cross City Line over Summer Road in Erdington, was smashed into again tonight

www.birminghammail.co.uk

And again.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Railway bridge hit for fourth time this month as trains cancelled again

The 14ft bridge, which carries the Cross City Line over Summer Road in Erdington, was smashed into again tonight

www.birminghammail.co.uk

And again.

Reach newspapers wouldn’t let me read it. Any chance of a quote?

 

[Morayshire]

A railway bridge in Birmingham was tonight hit for the fourth time this month - leaving trains cancelled. The 14ft bridge, which carries the Cross City Line over Summer Road in Erdington, was involved in yet another road vehicle collision today, Monday, January 27.

The same bridge was hit twice on January 7. The first lorry did not stop, with the bridge later reopening after a check by safety inspectors. It was then bashed for a second time that day as a lorry trailer had its roof ripped off hours later.

The same bridge was also hit and toppled a lorry on January 3. In a fifth incident in just 12 weeks, an HGV struck the same bridge on November 8, last year. The driver was charged with drink-driving.

Taking to X, West Midlands Railway posted tonight: "Line Blocked between Birmingham New Street and Lichfield Trent Valley. Due to a road vehicle colliding with a bridge between Birmingham New Street and Lichfield Trent Valley the line is blocked. Services running may be cancelled or delayed."

A lorry had its trailer roof ripped off by the Erdington bridge on January 7 (Image: Network Rail)

Just weeks ago, lorry drivers were told "wise up, size up" with truckers urged to know the height of their vehicle.

Martin Colmey, operations director for Network Rail’s Central route, said: “There is no excuse for driving a lorry into a railway bridge. Our bridges are clearly marked, and lorry drivers should always know the height restrictions of their vehicles. To ignore both and bash a bridge, causing disruption to passengers and road users, is unforgivable.

“We are looking into what might have caused this recent spate of bridge bashes but I plead with all drivers to know their vehicle restrictions and if in doubt about whether they can fit under a bridge to always use an alternative route.”

Text of article linked to earlier.

 

[railfan99]

If bridge bashes are becoming a frequent occurrence at this location, surely there must be a case for erecting steel 'crash gantries' across the road either side of the bridge....so that the vehicle will be damaged but not the bridge and train services will be able to continue running normally. The use of such devices is much more widespread on the continent than it is here.

That was going to be my point.

Are these not being installed because of the cost, given that with England's extensive rail network there must be at a bare minimum hundreds of rail over road bridges, if not in the low thousands?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

agreed, which is why I wondered whether the satnav might "know" that a trailer had been changed and demand a new input...

Does that technology exist yet? If not, it's no good waiting until it does. A system that detected when a trailer has been changed could work, but would need every tractor unit to be fitted with the technology. It also wouldn't detect when a trailer remained attached but had a load added or removed, unless there was also equipment attached to the fifth wheel which could detect the change in weight and prompt the satnav system to demand reconfiguration.

There needs to be a multi-pronged approach to dealing with the problem. Improved signage will help but won't prevent every strike. Improved training likewise. Greater penalties for incidents too will have an impact. Improved technology also has a role to play, but none of these things will happen overnight.