Salisbury to exeter redoubling

[damo2804]

I have come to the conclusion that Network Rail doesn't think there is the demand to justify redoubling the salisbury to exeter line. This is despite repeated requests from South West Trains, MP's and passenger groups. Also increased levels of people using the route would seem to quash NR argument as well.

Therefore I have started a petition to get this line redoubled. Please sign up if you feel as strongly as I do that investment is needed in this route and maybe it will start a ripple effect and spark mass rail investment in other parts of England.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7849

 

[DavidBrown]

Whilst I would love the line to be redoubled, where do you think the money is going to come from? There's no money for anything at the moment.

 

[Greenback]

Excellent, another epetition!

 

[damo2804]

Whilst I would love the line to be redoubled, where do you think the money is going to come from? There's no money for anything at the moment.

Well seeings that NR can afford to spend £5 billion on the Paddington line I would think its a reasonable assumption that they could afford £150 million to redouble the salisbury to exeter route.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well seeings that NR can afford to spend £5 billion on the Paddington line I would think its a reasonable assumption that they could afford £150 million to redouble the salisbury to exeter route.

They seem reluctant to shell out £8m for the Todmorden Curve or £120m ~ for SELRAP, never mind £150m!

 

[devon_metro]

Can't really see the demand for more than 1 train an hour from Exeter to Salisbury. It doesn't pass any particularly large population centres and the journey from Exeter to London is excruciatingly slow due to the number of stations the train stops at!

Money would be far better spent electrifying the GWML to Exeter.

 

[Eagle]

Can't really see the demand for more than 1 train an hour from Exeter to Salisbury. It doesn't pass any particularly large population centres and the journey from Exeter to London is excruciatingly slow due to the number of stations the train stops at!

The main benefit would be that not relying on passing loops would allow for higher linespeeds and greater flexibility. I agree that 1tph to Exeter is easily sufficient (given that that matches the ICGW service), but I could see demand for an all-day 2tph from London to Gillingham or Yeovil (the former in particular has a sizeable London commuting population).

 

[damo2804]

The main benefit would be that not relying on passing loops would allow for higher linespeeds and greater flexibility. I agree that 1tph to Exeter is easily sufficient (given that that matches the ICGW service), but I could see demand for an all-day 2tph from London to Gillingham or Yeovil (the former in particular has a sizeable London commuting population).

Totaly agree

Like I said in the petition:

Redoubling will allow the runnning of extra services such as limited stop services to London and also freight. Extra destinations to be added such as Exeter to Weymouth, Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton. The long sections of single track also mean that the services are dictated by the infrastructure rather than public demand. Redoubling will eliminate the need for services from Waterloo to terminate at Yeovil Junction when the route is used as a diversionary route by Paddington trains. Services will also no longer have to wait for up to ten minutes in a passing loop waiting for a service in the opposite direction, drasticaly reducing overall journey times and at a fraction of the cost of HS2 this would also be value for money.

 

[Eagle]

Extra destinations to be added such as Exeter to Weymouth, Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth and Brighton...

How are you getting those? Weymouth via a reversal at Yeovil Pen Mill I could just about picture but to get Exeter to Bournemouth you'd need to reverse in Southampton...

 

[damo2804]

How are you getting those? Weymouth via a reversal at Yeovil Pen Mill I could just about picture but to get Exeter to Bournemouth you'd need to reverse in Southampton...

What would be wrong with that? Trains reverse at lots of stations...Swansea, Reading, Exeter St Davids for starters. I am only stating the potential that a dual track line would have. At the moment I agree that the main benefits would be shorter journey times, better flexibilty for services, and reduced delays.

It may even give FGW some competition and maybe get them to start providing a decent service and reduce their extortionate fares.

 

[Trainbuff]

Have already signed the petition on the site!!! Got to be done particularly with new expansion near Exeter also. Well Done!!!

 

[swt_passenger]

Can't really see the demand for more than 1 train an hour from Exeter to Salisbury. It doesn't pass any particularly large population centres and the journey from Exeter to London is excruciatingly slow due to the number of stations the train stops at!

I don't think I've ever heard of SWT campaigning for further doubling. I'd be very surprised if their attitude wasn't simply to do what the DfT told them - on all their routes.

 

[DavidBrown]

I think the only sensible point I've seen so far from damo is regarding freight. There will be the new Intermodal facility near Cranbrook soon, which would require trains using the St Davids incline. You could direct trains via Yeovil Junction/Pen Mill and Castle Cary depending on the destination, though we don't yet know which companies are planning to move in (apart from Sainsbury's, which I don't believe uses rail freight?).

I also think that the new Cranbrook development will see a demand for a half hourly peak time service, though this, as discussed elsewhere in the past, could be provided by a Barnstaple/Paignton to Honiton/Axminster service rather than increasing the frequency of the London service. This extra service could also be fitted in with a new passing loop at Cranbrook (the new station has been designed to take one with ease in the future).

 

[swt_passenger]

Speaking of Cranbrook, Network Rail have a build contract for the new station out to tender at the moment.

I have heard elsewhere that the works will commence next spring, once the road access to the site is in place.

 

[damo2804]

I don't think I've ever heard of SWT campaigning for further doubling. I'd be very surprised if their attitude wasn't simply to do what the DfT told them - on all their routes.

Back in 2001 SWT offered to double the entire line if they were awarded a 20 year franchise. They want to run a limited stop service that I guess would omit calls at the smaller stations.

Can't really see the demand for more than 1 train an hour from Exeter to Salisbury. It doesn't pass any particularly large population centres and the journey from Exeter to London is excruciatingly slow due to the number of stations the train stops at!

Money would be far better spent electrifying the GWML to Exeter.

Gillingham, Axminster and Honiton currently have 200000 passengers a year using their stations and counting. The service is slow because it has to stop at every station as the infrastructure will not allow anything more if than this. Double track will allow SWT to run the half hourly service that they want to run consisting of an hourly stopping service plus a limited stop service which would me more appealing to London commuters. The DFT needs to stop rewarding FGW's quite frankly poor service by withdrawing the investment and instead give it to SWT which run a stellar service to London dispite the constraints they are under.

As a side note there is lots of housing development taking place on towns all along the route as more and more people move to the area.

 

[IanXC]

Maybe some dynamic loops would be a more affordable solution, hopefully delivering a good portion of the benefits?

 

[swt_passenger]

Back in 2001 SWT offered to double the entire line if they were awarded a 20 year franchise. They want to run a limited stop service that I guess would omit calls at the smaller stations.

What they may have proposed back in 2001 was under the SRA's totally different franchising regime of the day - when amongst other stuff Waterloo was going to be completely rebuilt...

Assuming that it is still SWT's position ten years later, and immediately following a major recession, is basically ridiculous.

Even today's longer franchise policy may not survive the next election, and the SWML's next franchise competition isn't even on the DfT's radar yet...

 

[wintonian]

Will read more replies when I get home but having travels to Exeter and back again today I support this idea, mind you it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

 

[damo2804]

Just found this on Network rails own website. Makes for interesting reading.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...onsultation responses/k/malcolm w. knight.pdf

And before anyone says anything I am aware that it is 5 years old :P

 

[swt_passenger]

Just found this on Network rails own website. Makes for interesting reading.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...onsultation responses/k/malcolm w. knight.pdf

And before anyone says anything I am aware that it is 5 years old :P

Although it's on NR's website, it's still only a proposal made by a member of the public (albeit a very well informed and detailed proposal) when the RUS was undergoing consultation.

It doesn't alter the fact that his solution to 'Gap 9' didn't make it into the finalised RUS, which I'm sure you must have seen already, as you probably wouldn't have found Mr Knight's proposals otherwise.

 

[damo2804]

Regardless, signing the petition will at least let the government know that people want this change to happen. All it takes is a minute of your time. If you don't want to sign for whatever reason then of course I wholely respect that. All I am saying is that here is an opportunity to try and make a change happen. I for one have been commenting on this subject but not doing anything about it for years. Now at least I can say I have tried to do something about it.

 

[Greenback]

Sadly, the petition will not even register on the radar of parliament until it reaches 100,000 signatures.

 

[embers25]

Once Cranbrook opens all trains will stop there but will that be at the expense of either Pinhoe/Feniton or Whimple?

 

[swt_passenger]

Once Cranbrook opens all trains will stop there but will that be at the expense of either Pinhoe/Feniton or Whimple?

The existing timetable is supposed to already allow for the Cranbrook stop, it was mentioned on the day the new platform at Axminster was opened. IIRC it is exactly why some of the minor stations have just a two hourly service already.

What they seem to have done is avoided any future hassle caused by having to remove stops, if they'd temporarily introduced them?

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

How are you getting those? Weymouth via a reversal at Yeovil Pen Mill I could just about picture but to get Exeter to Bournemouth you'd need to reverse in Southampton...

Simples (as the annnoying advert says),

Exeter to Bourno, run over the Romsey-Eastleigh single line, no need to reverse anywhere and also could call at Southampton airport on the way...

 

[Zoe]

Money would be far better spent electrifying the GWML to Exeter.

Would be a bit pointless considering very few trains on the GWML terminate at Exeter.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would be a bit pointless considering very few trains on the GWML terminate at Exeter.

In the current timetable. The GWML RUS definitely proposes more trains terminating at Exeter.

Current timetables are no guide to future timetables. Train frequency can go down as well as up...

 

[Zoe]

In the current timetable.

Current timetables are no guide to future timetables. Train frequency can go down as well as up...

Correct but Exeter doesn't have that much capacity for reversing trains. You'd need to have quite a few Exeter terminators to justify electrification to Exeter without the possibility of extending to Plymouth. You'd also end up with Plymouth/Paignton HSTs running under the wires for all of their journeys except the final 30/50 miles. There is more of a case for electrification from Bristol to Taunton though as this would allow the Cardiff to Taunton service to go over to EMU operation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Correct but Exeter doesn't have that much capacity for reversing trains.

With respect, but so what? If they need more capacity for reversing trains (such as fully reversible lines in the station area) they'll just have to provide it as part of the business case for the new service.

Too often we see explanations of why something cannot happen because of current limitations, but surely that's exactly why NR are always making alterations to the railway, and resignalling as necessary in particular areas?

 

[Zoe]

With respect, but so what? If they need more capacity for reversing trains (such as fully reversible lines in the station area) they'll just have to provide it as part of the business case for the new service.

At Exeter you would need more platforms to increase capacity and I'm not quite sure where these platforms would go. I'm not sure why Exeter suddently warrents this investment and a much improved service when Plymouth is getting nothing.