SailRail product offering needs a root and branch overhaul

[Irishmanc353]

TfW have announced they are not offering any sail-rail fares for routes via Holyhead for an undetermined period but possibly for the rest of the year or longer.

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Their (pathetic) excuse is that the ferry companies have brought in an altered timetable while additional work is being done to one of the linkspans so they are sharing the remaining one.

This altered timetable is the same as they ran for several months earlier this year following the damage done to the ferry berths last year, sail-rail tickets were offered during that period.

This is just more of the obvious disdain and disregard TfW and their predecessors have shown to those availing of Rail-Ferry links to Ireland, I can't imagine that withdrawing any other ticket types due to timetable changes resulting in considerably higher fares would be considered acceptable.


Edit:

Just to point out that both ferry companies are still selling tickets via their usual channels, online or ticket desk at port with Irish Ferries and phone or ticket desk with Stena Line, so this only affects those trying to purchase the fares originating in GB through the rail ticketing system, single/return purchases from Ireland are not affected.

Living in Manchester 25 years and having extended family in Ireland, something very strange has been going on since the rail strike of October 2022, in which I was stranded in Holyhead for 2 days after a disruption at Dublin Port (stranded there all day, eventually getting onto the 20.55 sailing), unable to get back to Manchester despite my best efforts to avoid the strike outbound (from Manchester) and I was changed again for a single ticket early morning from Holyhead to Manchester, via a horrific coach journey from Lladnuo to Chester, arriving in Manchester at 13.00 - it’s become very difficult since the problems at Holyhead to contact TfW to find out exactly what’s going on and they have refused to comply with FOI requests under Welsh law - the whole thing is totally absurd in these days of climate change and saving the planet, giving a viable alternative to flying and air travel (and they keep shelving plans for the high speed rail tunnel under the Irish Sea from Holyhead to Dublin, because of the failure of HS2) - already, Dublin Port (that has been expanded to take cruise ships) is a nightmare for onward transport, no coaches via the Port Tunnel, no LUAS trams, no water taxis along the Liffey at high tide (historical reference with the Guinness factory barges), then they closed Dun Laoire for foot passenger only ferries despite having ready made DART connections to Dublin - Liverpool used to have dedicated express trains from Manchester Victoria for ships to Dublin but they stopped that too - all of this begs the question what on Earth are they playing at? Is there some other agenda going on?

 

[Irishmanc353]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/removal_of_sailrail_fares < I got fed up at TfW's blanking of my query on social media as to the reasoning so have sent a FoI to see if we can get any more detail as to why they haven't bothered.

In the meantime - so long as enough time is left my understanding is Stena telesales can still issue these by post to a UK address. (You can just book on Irish Ferries directly as usual for journeys starting in Dublin)

It’s very frustrating and there are already very few direct trains from Manchester to Holyhead - I hate platform 14 at Manchester Piccadilly with a passion, especially if arriving via Manchester Metrolink from Shudehill/Market St (I’d sooner go via Manchester Victoria) with a heavy suitcase on my weeks holidays to Ireland, very few lifts, all the way up and down for tickets/info, up and down 2 travelators, up and down stairs, tiny sardine can trains (class 175) never enough carraiges, no first class, never enough time to change trains at Chester, at opposite ends of Chester station, no facilities at Holyhead - all of this could be so much better in so many ways, Holyhead needs to get torched and they need to totally start again from scratch - when we look at first class offerings by many airlines around the world this is just totally unacceptable

 

[berneyarms]

It’s very frustrating and there are already very few direct trains from Manchester to Holyhead - I hate platform 14 at Manchester Piccadilly with a passion, especially if arriving via Manchester Metrolink from Shudehill/Market St (I’d sooner go via Manchester Victoria) with a heavy suitcase on my weeks holidays to Ireland, very few lifts, all the way up and down for tickets/info, up and down 2 travelators, up and down stairs, tiny sardine can trains (class 175) never enough carraiges, no first class, never enough time to change trains at Chester, at opposite ends of Chester station, no facilities at Holyhead - all of this could be so much better in so many ways, Holyhead needs to get torched and they need to totally start again from scratch - when we look at first class offerings by many airlines around the world this is just totally unacceptable

There will be an hourly service from Manchester to Holyhead from the May timetable change.

 

[Irishmanc353]

There will be an hourly service from Manchester to Holyhead from the May timetable change.

Frankly, the entire SailRail product offering needs a root and branch overhaul in many respects, more direct trains, more carriages, first class option and rather than calling at Manchester Oxford Rd (that has no onward transport links), this calling point instead should be at Deansgate/Castlefield (better integration with Manchester Metrolink Trams) - given the sheer numbers travelling between intermediate stations, such direct trains could easily slot into the timetables - it does not need to be express, but please, stop this utter nonsense of changing trains at Chester and if possible, operate from Manchester Victoria, not Piccadilly - in fact, starting from Piccadilly, from the nearer platforms, would be an acceptable compromise

 

[Krokodil]

If you read the previous post, you won't need to change at Chester or Llandudno Junction from May (except on Sundays).

Oxford Road/Picc/Airport are far more popular than Victoria. There was uproar when diverting services was suggested as a solution to Castlefield congestion. The existing route offers convenient connections across most of the country, Victoria however would be a royal pain in the backside for people heading to places like Sheffield.

 

[ainsworth74]

Oxford Road/Picc/Airport are far more popular than Victoria. There was uproar when diverting services was suggested as a solution to Castlefield congestion. The existing route offers convenient connections across most of the country, Victoria however would be a royal pain in the backside for people heading to places like Sheffield.

And somewhat the tail wagging the dog surely? I've used SailRail recently (the Belfast - Cairnryan route admittedly not Holyhead - Dublin) and I think it's a very important link that should be maintained (and ideally improved up) but, at the same time, the numbers of passengers conveyed by SailRail whilst not nothing (my crossing had a maybe a couple of dozen people on the coach between the port and Ayr) are hardly significant. So expending significant resources for the sake a a comparatively small number of people seems an unwise use of precious resources.

Low cost aviation basically killed the mass market for SailRail (in my case I flew one way and used SailRail the other as the time taken to go by SailRail was just too much!) and I can't see that changing any time soon. I'd rather focus efforts on better promotion of its existence, better time timetabling of connections, and reintroduction of validity on more crossings where it's been removed (you can only use SailRail on one crossing each way for Cairnryan - Belfast now).

Things which should be, fairly, lost cost but could make a reasonable difference to both existing users and possibly grow the market slightly as well.

 

[NLC1072]

And somewhat the tail wagging the dog surely? I've used SailRail recently (the Belfast - Cairnryan route admittedly not Holyhead - Dublin) and I think it's a very important link that should be maintained (and ideally improved up) but, at the same time, the numbers of passengers conveyed by SailRail whilst not nothing (my crossing had a maybe a couple of dozen people on the coach between the port and Ayr) are hardly significant. So expending significant resources for the sake a a comparatively small number of people seems an unwise use of precious resources.

Low cost aviation basically killed the mass market for SailRail (in my case I flew one way and used SailRail the other as the time taken to go by SailRail was just too much!) and I can't see that changing any time soon. I'd rather focus efforts on better promotion of its existence, better time timetabling of connections, and reintroduction of validity on more crossings where it's been removed (you can only use SailRail on one crossing each way for Cairnryan - Belfast now).

Things which should be, fairly, lost cost but could make a reasonable difference to both existing users and possibly grow the market slightly as well.

Bring back the direct London - Fishguard boat trains I say, but I know it's very wishful thinking