Sailrail and Caledonian sleeper

[wintonian]

I am looking into doing a Sailrail from Winchester to Belfast via Stranraer, I phoned the rather nice people at Sailrail who confirmed that the ticket would be valid via Glasgow. Would this be valid on the sleeper upon payment of the supplement?

Also am I correct in assuming that there are no (disabled) railcard discounts on Sailrail tickets or on trains in Northern Ireland?

 

[First class]

No disabled railcard discounts, correct. Just 16-25/Senior holders get the third off the through fare. No idea about discounts in Ireland.

Sleeper supplement must be paid (around £40) HOWEVER a mandatory reservation must be held to guarantee boarding, (i.e. you need to book it in advance).

You could request the disabled sleeper berth at the time of booking though which is a double size for no extra cost if you think your disability may warrant it.

Ticket cost is £60.70 return. Very unusually though, it is classed as an "Anytime Return" with a ticket restriction of 1X, meaning the ticket is not valid 'at any time'. However, the bit you need to you need to know says:

Also valid on all First
ScotRail Caledonian Sleeper
services_(with supplement).

So in your case, make the sleeper reservation. You can get any train you like THERE. However, coming back, unless you get the sleeper BACK, you can't arrive at London before 1005, although I don't think with your journey it is possible to.

 

[wintonian]

Thanks, I'm working on the basis of a single journey.

What is the £60.70 for? I believe a single to Belfast is 46 or x2 for a return?

I just tried phoning Scottrail to ask them and as usual ended up at NRE who kept telling me that it’s not possible to go from Winchester to Belfast. Why do I waste my time with them.

 

[First class]

Really sorry, looked at the price of a 16-15 railcard discounted fare sorry. The return costs £92 via London and Stranraer, or £84 via Holyhead or Fishguard.

Just go to a ticket office the day before and ask for a return to Belfast NI. Make your berth reservation (£40).

Don't know if it any good for you, but it is £92 return from nearly every station South of London. It may give you a bit more flexibility??

 

[wintonian]

Why can you get a 16 - 25 discount but not a DIS or SNR? Seems a bit odd.

I am planning to do Belfast then Dublin and come back through Holyhead.

Is there an unlikely railcard discount on the supplement to be had?

What happens if one of your trains is late and you miss the ferry? Assuming the last one has gone go they find you a nice cheap bed for the night?

 

[First class]

Why can you get a 16 - 25 discount but not a DIS or SNR? Seems a bit odd.

I am planning to do Belfast then Dublin and come back through Holyhead.

Is there an unlikely railcard discount on the supplement to be had?

What happens if one of your trains is late and you miss the ferry? Assuming the last one has gone go they find you a nice cheap bed for the night?

You CAN get a senior railcard discount. You just can't get the DSB or FAM one.

The sleeper berth supplement is full price. No discounts are generally permitted on supplements.

With your itinerary, you should get a Winchester-Belfast NI return route Stranraer. This ticket is not valid via Holyhead.

However, what you can do, providing you do this at the same time as you buy the original ticket, is purchase an "alternative route" excess ticket to change the return portion to route Holyhead. That excess would cost £0.00 (free). That is your cheapest option to go out via Stranraer and return via Holyhead.

Yorkie or some other regulars will probably tell you more about the excessing procedure if you are unsure.

With regards to the late running/missed last connection situation, I believe all these Irish tickets are issued under the CIV Conditions of Carriage, giving you additional rights than the NRCoC ones.
Effectively under these conditions you won't be left stranded, however, say you arrived at Holyhead at 0200 because the ferry was late, you missed the train that left at 0030. If the next train was at 0400, you would have to wait the 2 hours. If the next train was not due "within a reasonable waiting time" (staff discretion), you'd probably be taxied to somewhere like Chester. The railway very rarely, if ever, any longer provide overnight accommodation, it being easier and cheaper to provide a taxi or bus (assuming there's quite a few people).

 

[wintonian]

I was thinking - return from Dublin Ferry Port (DFO) to Winchester £30.50 route: +HLYHD IRISHF CIV.

Ok, still seems odd that there is a 16 -25 discount but not a DSB.

 

[A60K]

Really sorry, looked at the price of a 16-15 railcard discounted fare sorry. The return costs £92 via London and Stranraer, or £84 via Holyhead or Fishguard.

The single tickets are half the price of the return tickets, so if different outward and return routes are planned then wouldn't it make sense to buy two singles rather than change the return half - or have I missed something?

 

[yorkie]

The single tickets are half the price of the return tickets, so if different outward and return routes are planned then wouldn't it make sense to buy two singles rather than change the return half - or have I missed something?

You beat me to it! Just get singles.

They may have some excuse why they can't excess these tickets, some ticket office staff will give any excuse they possibly can not to issue an excess (because they don't know how to do an excess, usually) so I'd avoid excesses where possible.

As for what happens if you miss the ferry, you get the next one. While they can sell out of vehicle spaces, there's plenty of space for foot passengers on these ferries. They won't turn anyone away. There may be an issue with disability spaces if required, talk to the ferry company.

 

[wintonian]

I am going to get singles and I was thinking about if someone misses the last ferry.

 

[yorkie]

The 23:20 from Stranraer? You'd just have to wait for the 03:30. I don't think they'll organise a hover taxi in the event of a delay

The timetable is here:
http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/belfast-stranraer/timetable

 

[wintonian]

Thanks,

Yeh I had a look at the timetables earlier but with looking at the 4 possible routes and having to find train times myself I eventualy had enougth for the day.

Where in Ireland (north and south) can I go to change a ferry reservation if I wanted to use a diffrent sailing to the one booked?

 

[yorkie]

I wouldn't worry about it. I've turned up with the 'wrong' reservation before as I changed my travel plans and they didn't comment on it, there's always plenty of space for foot passengers, and when boarding commences you will get to the seating area before the car drivers do, so you get first choice of seats. There's no reserved seating, you sit where you like. There is a supplement for some posh seats at the top of the ferry (not sure what they call it but it's like First Class).

You have to pay extra if you want to get the bus at the other end, unless you have a through rail ticket beyond the ferry port.

Oh, and make sure you take a trip on their hellfire Thumpers!!

 

[wintonian]

Oooh is it worth going 1st on a ferry I've not been on one for years, unless you count the Sandbanks ferry in Dorset or the Hyth ferry from Southampton.

 

[Greenback]

I wouldn't worry about it. I've turned up with the 'wrong' reservation before as I changed my travel plans and they didn't comment on it, there's always plenty of space for foot passengers, and when boarding commences you will get to the seating area before the car drivers do, so you get first choice of seats. There's no reserved seating, you sit where you like. There is a supplement for some posh seats at the top of the ferry (not sure what they call it but it's like First Class).

You have to pay extra if you want to get the bus at the other end, unless you have a through rail ticket beyond the ferry port.

Oh, and make sure you take a trip on their hellfire Thumpers!!

Agreed, I have never needed a reservation in my frequent forays from Fishguard to rosslare and back. The posh seats are called Stena Plus...

Oooh is it worth going 1st on a ferry I've not been on one for years, unless you count the Sandbanks ferry in Dorset or the Hyth ferry from Southampton.

...and are not worth even paying 50p extra in my opinion!

 

[wintonian]

I'll save my 50p and buy a packet of crisps then

 

[yorkie]

We didn't go for it, it may have been £15? but I cannot remember.

http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/routes/stena-plus/ doesn't seem to have a price.

Only worth it perhaps if you want power for a laptop, a meal, etc. Although you can of course buy food and take it to a normal seat anyway, you just won't get waiter service in normal seats.

Although I'm pretty sure I found a 'normal' seat with a power socket for the way back. I didn't get one going there, but did have a look and noted where a particular seat was with a socket intended for vaccum cleaners and got it on the way back as it was the same (type of) ferry. Not too hard to do either as we get in the seating area before the car drivers and their passengers

 

[Greenback]

Or save £10 and buy 20! I've never noticed how much it is, but I've just checked the Stena website and it's £15 each way for the Stranraer route! But you do get complimentary tea, coffe, wine, soft drinks, newspapers and magazines. (No mention of crisps).

 

[John @ home]

Oooh is it worth going 1st on a ferry

The posh seats are called Stena Plus...

...and are not worth even paying 50p extra in my opinion!

I have heard that the quality of the club class or upper class lounge varies by operator, but in 2008 I found that the offering on the fast Holyhead - Dublin cat was well worth £10. It included food, beer, wine, soft drinks, sandwiches, nibbles and newspapers in addition to a more comfortable seat.

 

[wintonian]

How does one determan the route validity for Sailral?

Winchester to Stranraer apperently isn't valid via Newport or Ludlow, so do you just look up the routeing guide and find Winchester to Stranraer?

 

[John @ home]

How does one determan the route validity for Sailral?

We have discussed this some months ago and I don't think we know.

Winchester to Stranraer apperently isn't valid via Newport or Ludlow

What's your source for that information?

do you just look up the routeing guide and find Winchester to Stranraer?

That doesn't always work.

For example, the Routeing Guide shows that Didcot - Holyhead is not valid via London and all the walk-on fares are routed Banbury. But Didcot - Dublin Ferryport IF is route + Holyhead IrishF CIV. The '+' marker means it must be valid via London.

 

[wintonian]

We have discussed this some months ago and I don't think we know.

Same way as usual then.

What's your source for that information?That doesn't always work.

The guy on the end of the phone at Sailrail who looked it all up on his computer thing when I asked if I could go via Bristol, Cardiff hes said no then informed me that I couldn't go via Worcester, Hereford, Shrewsbury either but that I can go London or Birmingham.

For example, the Routeing Guide shows that Didcot - Holyhead is not valid via London and all the walk-on fares are routed Banbury. But Didcot - Dublin Ferryport IF is route + Holyhead IrishF CIV. The '+' marker means it must be valid via London.

Is there a need for it to be valid via London?


Edit: Just realised Stranraer is in Scotland and Holyhead is in Wales (I knew that really I'm not quite that stupid) When I was thinking about going via Cardiff I was going to Holyhead in my brain but was actually talking about Stranraer. Of course it makes sense now why would I go to Belfast via Stranraer if I intend to go through the Welsh valleys? :-?

 

[John @ home]

Is there a need for it to be valid via London?

In the particular instance we discussed, the need arose when bus replacements in the Banbury area meant the first train from Swindon did not reach Holyhead in time for the early afternoon ferry. The solution was a £0.00 excess ticket to travel from Didcot instead. This allowed travel via London and arrival in time for the ferry. See this thread and this thread .

 

[yorkie]

Although, as I am sure I have pointed out before, the lack of + does not mean the ticket is not valid via London, however the excess avoids potential arguments with badly trained LU barrier staff who are simply told to accept tickets with the + and to refuse other tickets, which is incorrect.

In the case of Winchesterr - Belfast there is a + on the route of the ticket so there will be no argument with LU barrier staff about its validity via London.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Also am I correct in assuming that there are no (disabled) railcard discounts on Sailrail tickets or on trains in Northern Ireland?

Don't know about Iarnrod Eireann, but NIRailways are not part of National Rail, so your railcard doesn't give a discount on fares within NI. You need a concession card from Department for Regional Development (NI) for disabled discounts on rail fares, unfortunately.

http://www.drdni.gov.uk/index/public_transport/publictrans-concessionary_fares.htm

 

[wintonian]

Thats ok I wasn't expexting it to be accepted.

 

[tony_mac]

Is there somewhere to get times of sailrail tickets via Holyhead? (with connections).
Nationalrail seems to have lost them.

There aren't any railcard discounts for this route, are there?

 

[yorkie]

Ferry timetable should be here: http://www.irishferries.co.uk/ferry-to-dublin.asp although that page isn't loading for me right now.

No discounts via Holyhead, that's right

 

[Greenback]

I have heard that the quality of the club class or upper class lounge varies by operator, but in 2008 I found that the offering on the fast Holyhead - Dublin cat was well worth £10. It included food, beer, wine, soft drinks, sandwiches, nibbles and newspapers in addition to a more comfortable seat.

I would certainly consider paying £10 for Stena Plus on the fast catamaran from Holyhead. There isn;t so much room to move around on that, and the prospect of a more comfortable seat and free beer, along with avoiding the general crowds we found on board is quite appealing! However, we find the bigger ships quite comfortable and have no idea for Stena Plus. Mind you, now I know there's beer offered, I might change my mind

 

[tivoli]

My sister is looking at travelling west of Ireland to Cambridgeshire, using SailRail by day. Is it possible, having bought the ticket to overnight in a B&B in Holyhead and continue the next morning