Sail Rail Tickets Valid on Wrexham & Shropshire?

[gpb_croppers63]

Hi All,

I have a quick question. I may have to make a sail-rail trip to London tomorrow if my flight to Stansted is cancelled due to this volcanic ash. I've looked at times and fares and I was wondering whether a sail-rail ticket from Dublin to London would allow me to change in Wrexham and try out W&S for the first time. Does anyone know the answer to this? Also, do W&S allow you to pay a supplement for a first class upgrade? I'd love to try first class on W&S but would settle for standard if that's not an option. I can't seem to find this information on their website.

I'd be really grateful for any information you have.

Thanks in advance!

Gareth

 

[Thewanderer]

While I don't know about the UK side I did hear today that Iarnrod Eireann stopped selling sail rail tickets (most likely at the instructions of the ferry companies) due to huge demand currently being experienced. I gather you are being urged to book via the ferry companies so they have an idea on the expected number of passengers for each sailing.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Rail-Sail tickets are definitly still on sale at the ferry ports, but turn up early. Also, don't bother going to Dun Laoghaire as that route is booked out until Sunday.

Turn up at Dublin Port at about 07:30 and while you might not get on the Swift at 08:45, there's definitly room on Ulysses at 08:05, this was confirmed a short time ago.

To answer your other question, definitly not valid on Wrexham & Shropshire. I normally buy a sail-rail from Dublin-Wrexham or Shrewsbury, and purchase a cheap advanced ticket for the W&S leg.

Dublin-London is "any route permitted", i.e. Holyhead-Chester-Crewe-London via the Trent Valley or Birmingham and also Holyhead-Chester-Shrewsbury-Birmingham-London. The former is the most direct.

W&S also sell tickets on the train, even if you get on at a barriered station, no penalty. I think a walk on fare to London is £50.00, not bad value.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Yeah I couldn't buy a sail-rail ticket in the end so just booked the ferry. I didn't want to risk driving all the way from Galway to be told that the ferry was full so I paid up and grimaced. Lol! I may ask at the port tomorrow to see if they can change my ticket to a sail-rail but I doubt they will.

If I do have to buy the rail ticket separately, does anyone have any creative splitting options to bring the cost from Holyhead to Euston down? I need to go out tomorrow and back on Sunday. The off-peak return is around £76 which is OK I suppose but any cheaper options would be much appreciated!

Thanks for the info about W&S Drimnagh Road. I thought the sail-rail wouldn't be valid but it was worth asking. I think I'll miss the connection to W&S anyway now that I have to travel on the Ulysses.

Thanks again guys!

Gareth

 

[clagmonster]

Assuming we are looking at valid routes for Holyhead-London, which given no better option is reasonable, then we use the routeing guide:
http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

First off, we find that Holyhead is a related station to Shotton, and that London Group is a routeing point.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/routeing_point_identifier.pdf

Next, we find that the routeing permissions for Shotton to London Group are: BC+TV CC+GC CH+BC+TV CL+LC LC WS
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/permitted_route_identifier.pdf

Valid routes are routes that can be traced using all maps in sequential order, either forwards or backwards, in at least one of the map combinations. In particular, we find that map WS gives:
Shotton-Wrexham group-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton-Walsall group-Birmingham New Street group-Tyseley-Warwick-Banbury-West Ruislip-London Marylebone group
Shotton-Wrexham group-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton-Walsall group-Birmingham New Street group-Coventry-Banbury-West Ruislip-London Marylebone group
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/maps.pdf

This is the route taken by Wrexham and Shropshire trains, so in my opinion Dublin-London is valid on Wrexham & Shropshire. Others may disagree that the Welsh and English leg of Dublin-London is valid on the valid routes for Holyhead-London.

The saver single from Wrexham General-London Terminals, route Wrexham & Shropshire only costs £52.

 

[bnm]

Post deleted, repeat information.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Gareth, even if they don't change your ticket for you it would still be cheaper to buy a sail rail ticket at the port, despite having one for the ferry.

An off peak Holyhead-Euston walk on fare is approx £75.00, a sail rail to London will cost about €44.00.

Clagmonster / bnm I'm not sure if Sail Rail tickets are Dublin Port / Dun Laoghaire - London Terminals or London Euston specifically but I'm adamant you wouldn't get away using one via the Chiltern line.

 

[bnm]

If you are adamant then could you back up such an assertion with evidence as to why a sail/rail ticket is not valid on W&S?

The only things we have to go on are the Rail Routeing guide (backed up by the NRCoC) and journey planners. Both appear to allow journeys from Holyhead to London Marylebone via Wrexham or Shrewsbury.

Put Dublin/Dun Laoghaire to London Euston into Avantix NFM 05 and the destination is listed on the ticket validity code as 1072 London Terminals. Same goes if you put in the destination London Marylebone.

I'm unaware of anything in the sail/rail or CIV terms and conditions that trump the Rail Routeing Guide for the part of the journey that is on the National Rail network.

If an 'any permitted' ticket from Holyhead to London Terminals is valid to Marylebone, then surely an 'any permitted' sail/rail ticket from Dublin/Dun Laoghaire to London Terminals is also valid.

 

[yorkie]

To answer your other question, definitly not valid on Wrexham & Shropshire..

Why isn't it?

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Thanks for all the info guys. The girl at Dublin Port was excellent and agreed to cancel my ferry-only booking and re-book me a sail-rail. She couldn't process the refund but will send it to accounts to do that. All in all, I'm very pleased. I'm on the direct Virgin service to Euston now. It departs at 14:38. I abandoned the W&S plan when I couldn't get on the fast ferry as I'd have been too late for my ferry from Harwich if I'd waited for the next W&S service.

I've never seen so many people on a ferry in my life. It was completely packed and there was a major scrum to get on the Chester train to connect to London. I didn't even bother trying for it and decided to wait for the 14:36 direct to Euston. I'm sitting in First class and it's very civilised. I'll pay the weekend first upgrade if I'm asked to but I suspect it may get declassified. We'll see. At least it's a Pendo so there's plenty of room.

Cheers again folks!

Gareth

 

[Thewanderer]

Sounds like you had a good trip! Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Was there a problem with the 57/3 at Holyhead earlier? Heard 310 was swapped for 313 after arrival from London.

Folks I'm looking into the W&S thing and will provide an answer ASAP.

 

[A60K]

Folks I'm looking into the W&S thing and will provide an answer ASAP.

If it's a valid route according to the Routing Guide then that is that - nothing on the ticket overrides it.

 

[krus_aragon]

Was there a problem with the 57/3 at Holyhead earlier? Heard 310 was swapped for 313 after arrival from London.

The Holyhead pendo drag often swaps with Gerald's loco so it can be serviced at Crewe without a light engine working.

 

[bnm]

Folks I'm looking into the W&S thing and will provide an answer ASAP.

Couldn't wait for your ASAP!

Couple of calls, one to ATOC, one to Wrexham and Shropshire have confirmed that a sail/rail ticket routed from Dublin/Dun Laoghaire is valid into London Marylebone.

ATOC comfirmed they are always issued as to/from '1072 London Terminals' and that the Routeing Guide can be consulted using Holyhead (cf Shotton - Holyhead's routeing point) and 'London Group' stations.

Wrexham and Shropshire merely said "Yes of course -as long as the ticket is 'Any Permitted' - then no problem travelling from Wrexham or Shrewsbury into Marylebone"

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Couldn't wait for your ASAP!

Couple of calls, one to ATOC, one to Wrexham and Shropshire have confirmed that a sail/rail ticket routed from Dublin/Dun Laoghaire is valid into London Marylebone.

ATOC comfirmed they are always issued as to/from '1072 London Terminals' and that the Routeing Guide can be consulted using Holyhead (cf Shotton - Holyhead's routeing point) and 'London Group' stations.

Wrexham and Shropshire merely said "Yes of course -as long as the ticket is 'Any Permitted' - then no problem travelling from Wrexham or Shrewsbury into Marylebone"

Excellent. Thanks for the info. I may have to do another sail-rail trip in the not too distant future once all of this ash disappears if that's the case.

 

[bnm]

Oh, and regarding upgrade to First Class.

During the week you will need to Excess your Standard Class ticket, paying the difference in fares appropriate for your journey. At the weekend you can upgrade on W&S for £15 per single journey between any two stations on their route.

 

[gpb_croppers63]

Oh, and regarding upgrade to First Class.

During the week you will need to Excess your Standard Class ticket, paying the difference in fares appropriate for your journey. At the weekend you can upgrade on W&S for £15 per single journey between any two stations on their route.

Good to know about the Weekend First upgrade too. Thanks. There's no info about it on their website.

Cheers again for all the information guys.

 

[wintonian]

For those thinking of sailrailing it back from Rep. of Ireland in the near future I just had an e-mail back from Iarnród Éireann regarding current avaliblity.

Hi,
Thank you for your email,

We have no availability, you need to contact the operator directly;
Irish Ferries 0818 300 400
Stena 01 204 7799

 

[gpb_croppers63]

I was told that on Friday night by Irish Ferries themselves but they were still selling them at Dublin Port to anyone who asked for them and people had succeeded in buying them from UK train stations as there were loads of people using train tickets to check in last night. My advice would be go to the port or the train station in person. Telesales can't help at the moment.

 

[wintonian]

I realise the ferry companies and National Rail will be different, this was purely an enquiry about buying them in Ireland from Iarnród Éireann and as you said it was just an e-mail from telesales so I assumed it to apply to all Irish rail stations as well.

 

[Thewanderer]

Wintonian, see my 2nd post in this topic.

While I don't know about the UK side I did hear today that Iarnrod Eireann stopped selling sail rail tickets (most likely at the instructions of the ferry companies) due to huge demand currently being experienced. I gather you are being urged to book via the ferry companies so they have an idea on the expected number of passengers for each sailing.

 

[Skip 10]

Oh, and regarding upgrade to First Class.

During the week you will need to Excess your Standard Class ticket, paying the difference in fares appropriate for your journey. At the weekend you can upgrade on W&S for £15 per single journey between any two stations on their route.

Just to up date, 1st class upgrade to London form Wrexham-Tamebridge inc £45 on a weekday, subject to availability, this includes food etc, Leamington spa, Banbury-London is a £15 upgrade and this only includes tea, coffee or soft drinks. The weekend all stations £15 upgrade doesnt include meals but these can be purchased on the train. All subject to availability.

 

[wintonian]

Wintonian, see my 2nd post in this topic.

My apologies, it was a few posts back and I had forgotten.

Hopefully now things are moving through air again things might get back to normal.