Sail Rail - no ferry reservations

[MarkyMarkD]

Having decided on Sail Rail (following an earlier thread on here) and booking via the Arriva Trains Wales dedicated Sail Rail part of their website (which ends up booking via thetrainline.com's booking engine) I've got my tickets.

They are straightforward Economy Single tickets from my local station to Belfast NI (and the return one is from 'Dublinport Stena') with +HOLHYHD STENA_SHP ON DATE SHOWN as the route/validity.

So far, so good.

There are also reservations on the appropriate Euston - Holyhead train.

Also good.

But there are no ferry reservations, despite the conditions on ATW's own website saying that ferry reservations are mandatory, and other posts on here saying that the train ticket is only valid if produced with a relevant ferry reservation.

I have e-mailed both Stena (who referred me to ATW) and ATW (who responded "we confirm that your ticket includes ferry travel" which is rather missing the point).

Any idea where to go from here?

I will be fairly irate if I have ticket validity problems en route after booking the ticket completely correctly!

 

[wintonian]

You won't need ferry reservations.

I bought Belfast tickets online from SWT earlier this year and the reservations did not print either. It’s highly unlikely you will be asked for them I never have even when carrying reservations.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

You mean no probs on the trains OR the ferries?

 

[yorkie]

Both.

No-one on a train is going to ask for a ferry reservation. And nor will they ask for a train reservation either as it's not an Advance.

When I have got ferries, whether that be from Stranraer or Dublin, they weren't fussed about reservations and had loads of room for foot passengers. I'm sure the busier sailings sell out for vehicles, but not foot passengers (unless there's an ash cloud causing problems with flights!)

 

[wintonian]

It is possible that they have changed the rules so that ferry reservation are no longer needed (apparently there is a note on the board to this affect at Reading ticket office) but have (for quite some time) forgotten to update the rules in 'writing.'

However it is not certain to me which is actually the correct policy now, but there isn't any need to worry about it as no one gets asked for ferry reservations by the railway or at the ferry port.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Thanks, both, for the reassurance.

It's great that Sail Rail is such a good deal and I am all for getting people off the planes and onto the trains/ferries. I am taking my wife and daughter to Ireland for a fortnight and doing it without the car will be a challenge - but the journey is part of the fun and we're all looking forward to it.

 

[martino]

I booked Birmingham-Belfast via Holyhead recently from the ATW website having been sent there from NRE - I never knew previously that it was possible to book Rail+Sail online except from raileasy or, in limited cases, Stena.

When I printed the ticket I was also surprised to get no ferry reservation.

I have travelled many times before on the ferry, and they never care about the reservations (I once got a ferry from Stranraer the afternoon after the date on the ticket and I don't think they noticed). It is very rarely full - I was once on a full ferry Stranraer-Belfast during the Open at Troon.

However, out of an abundance of caution, I queued up at the ticket office at Euston and got a ferry reservation issued. The staff member was sufficiently distracted that I am not sure whether he noticed that he was issuing a reservation for a ferry rather than a train, and I did not attempt to ask about whether the reservation was necessary.

Similarly I did not ask him about Dublin-Belfast - am I OK without a reservation for the Enterprise?

 

[barrykas]

Had a passenger wanting a reservation (plus bike) for Holyhead - Dublin today. Our TIS would only do the train reservation, and even then only for the bike(!), and Journey Planner would only do the ferry reservation (with no bike). Queue much head scratching, then a "manual" reservation being copied across.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[wintonian]

I booked Birmingham-Belfast via Holyhead recently from the ATW website having been sent there from NRE - I never knew previously that it was possible to book Rail+Sail online except from raileasy or, in limited cases, Stena.

When I printed the ticket I was also surprised to get no ferry reservation.

I have travelled many times before on the ferry, and they never care about the reservations (I once got a ferry from Stranraer the afternoon after the date on the ticket and I don't think they noticed). It is very rarely full - I was once on a full ferry Stranraer-Belfast during the Open at Troon.

However, out of an abundance of caution, I queued up at the ticket office at Euston and got a ferry reservation issued. The staff member was sufficiently distracted that I am not sure whether he noticed that he was issuing a reservation for a ferry rather than a train, and I did not attempt to ask about whether the reservation was necessary.

Similarly I did not ask him about Dublin-Belfast - am I OK without a reservation for the Enterprise?

No you do not need a reservation for the Enterprise nor would you get one issued.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

My ATW itinerary explicitly says "No Reservation Required" for the Dublin-Belfast leg.

Incidentally, the itinerary allows three hours in Holyhead on the return journey, during which time 3 trains to London leave Holyhead (and arrive at Euston before the one they have actually given us reservations on). Is this merely paranoia about ferry delays or is there some deeper reason?

Given that the Sail Rail ticket allows travel on virtually any train, I don't really get this!

 

[wintonian]

My ATW itinerary explicitly says "No Reservation Required" for the Dublin-Belfast leg.

Incidentally, the itinerary allows three hours in Holyhead on the return journey, during which time 3 trains to London leave Holyhead (and arrive at Euston before the one they have actually given us reservations on). Is this merely paranoia about ferry delays or is there some deeper reason?

Given that the Sail Rail ticket allows travel on virtually any train, I don't really get this!

When are you traling and are going to end up at Euston at the end of the trip?

Using stena via Holyhead there are only 2 ferries the 08:20 allowing you 1hr 5min in Holyhead or the 21:15 4 hr overnight wait at holyhead with the 04:48 being the first train to London indeed it is the 2nd train of the day from Holyhead. Even using Dun Laoghaire there is only a 45 min wait.

 

[island]

Similarly I did not ask him about Dublin-Belfast - am I OK without a reservation for the Enterprise?

You don't need one to get on (Irish Rail staff accept an even wider range of tickets than the Birmingham New Street gateline) although if you're travelling on the busiest trains (1320, 1520 and 1650 on Fridays plus 0735 on Saturdays fitting that bill, and often the 1650 on other days too) you may wish to book one through www.irishrail.ie, €3 per leg plus €2 transaction fee plus €1 credit card fee.

 

[gooses]

I booked Birmingham-Belfast via Holyhead recently from the ATW website having been sent there from NRE - I never knew previously that it was possible to book Rail+Sail online except from raileasy or, in limited cases, Stena.

You can book through Transpennine's website - means you can get cashback as well if you go through Topcashback...

 

[wintonian]

You can book through Transpennine's website - means you can get cashback as well if you go through Topcashback...

and £2.53 cashback if you book through Southern.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

When are you traling and are going to end up at Euston at the end of the trip?

Using stena via Holyhead there are only 2 ferries the 08:20 allowing you 1hr 5min in Holyhead or the 21:15 4 hr overnight wait at holyhead with the 04:48 being the first train to London indeed it is the 2nd train of the day from Holyhead. Even using Dun Laoghaire there is only a 45 min wait.

On a Saturday:

Dublin Port 0820 - Holyhead 1135
Holyhead 1438 - Euston 1838

is what my itinerary says, which means that it is ignoring the 1155, 1238* and 1323* departures from Holyhead.

* Change at Chester.

Whilst we are on the subject why does the itinerary show the following on the outbound journey:

Dublin Port 1715 - Dublin Connolly 1900
Dublin Connolly 1900 - Xbelfast NI 2110
Xbelfast NI 2110 - Belfast NI 2145.

Not sure what the Xbelfast bit is all about?

 

[Paul Kelly]

It could possibly be that "Belfast NI" refers to the Stena terminal at Fortwilliam and it is allowing you some time to get there from Belfast Central station!

 

[wintonian]

On a Saturday:

Dublin Port 0820 - Holyhead 1135
Holyhead 1438 - Euston 1838

is what my itinerary says, which means that it is ignoring the 1155, 1238* and 1323* departures from Holyhead.

* Change at Chester.

Whilst we are on the subject why does the itinerary show the following on the outbound journey:

Dublin Port 1715 - Dublin Connolly 1900
Dublin Connolly 1900 - Xbelfast NI 2110
Xbelfast NI 2110 - Belfast NI 2145.

Not sure what the Xbelfast bit is all about?

I'll have another look later.

Xbelfast I think refers to Belfast Central where the Enterprise terminates, Belfast NI in this case would refer to Belfast city centre by using the bus from Belfast Central (free for anyone with a ticket to Belfast) or Belfast Great Victoria Street if continuing by train.

Thats the only logic I have been able find for it.

It could possibly be that "Belfast NI" refers to the Stena terminal at Fortwilliam and it is allowing you some time to get there from Belfast Central station!

??? I am confued by this.

Ferries to NI don't go from Fort William they go from Stranraer and the OP is traveling through Dublin using the Enterprise train.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Sorry I meant Fortwilliam in north Belfast. I guess the ferry terminal isn't exactly there but it is not far from the Fortwilliam roundabout on the M2/M5, so I thought that was a good way of describing it. Not sure what the official name for the area would be.

 

[wintonian]

Sorry I meant Fortwilliam in north Belfast. I guess the ferry terminal isn't exactly there but it is not far from the Fortwilliam roundabout on the M2/M5, so I thought that was a good way of describing it. Not sure what the official name for the area would be.

Right got you now.

But I don't see why they would be expecting people to go to the ferry terminal for Great Britain when they have only just come from there?

 

[embers25]

Just booked Railsail this evening in Woking for my Londonderry trip tomorrow. It only took 20 minutes and a phone call to the ticket office help desk to get the train to show then it wouldn't offer any reservations saying on the screen (he showed me) that these were no longer possible on these tickets. After seeing this he initially refused to sell me the ticket then changed his mind and issued me just the ticket. So I now have the ticket with no reservation but with a journey plan printed from his screen still stating reservations on the boat are mandatory so that's clear!

 

[wintonian]

Just booked Railsail this evening in Woking for my Londonderry trip tomorrow. It only took 20 minutes and a phone call to the ticket office help desk to get the train to show then it wouldn't offer any reservations saying on the screen (he showed me) that these were no longer possible on these tickets. After seeing this he initially refused to sell me the ticket then changed his mind and issued me just the ticket. So I now have the ticket with no reservation but with a journey plan printed from his screen still stating reservations on the boat are mandatory so that's clear!

I think this is why I had so much trouble trying to get a reservation after the TVM didn't print one, to be fair I gave up after the guy at Reading (3rd ticket office I tried) said there was a notice on the notice board saying they were no longer required.

I was so persistent this because the previous time I went the ticket office couldn't work out how to do one and when I got to Waterloo and asked them for one of the managers nearly threw a fit about the fact I wasn't issued one and wanted to know where I had bought it, who had sold it, when and take copies of the ticket!

 

[Flying Snail]

I think this is why I had so much trouble trying to get a reservation after the TVM didn't print one, to be fair I gave up after the guy at Reading (3rd ticket office I tried) said there was a notice on the notice board saying they were no longer required.

I was so persistent this because the previous time I went the ticket office couldn't work out how to do one and when I got to Waterloo and asked them for one of the managers nearly threw a fit about the fact I wasn't issued one and wanted to know where I had bought it, who had sold it, when and take copies of the ticket!

You are just wasting your time with all that, from experience I can assure you that the check-in staff at Holyhead (both Stena and Irish Ferries) have no interest in the reservation coupon of national rail tickets, just the travel ticket with the correct routing.

Barring another ash-cloud like event seeing the foot passenger numbers increasing by 100 fold there will not be any problem.

These days I usually get a ferry only return ticket and even though they insist on a return sailing being specified when booking there is no issue whatsoever using it on a different day.

 

[phil8715]

When I did the rail sail deal we went from Blackburn to Belfast Harbour via Stranraer. I went to Preston to collect the rail tickets and printed off the ferry ticket for the Stena portion of the route travelled to Stranraer presented my printed out ticket when I checked in.

Not sure if the ticket for the ferry was the reservation or not, but I got on ok.

Sent from my X10mini using Tapatalk

 

[embers25]

I too have not had reservations the last 3 times I've gone via Stranraer or Holyhead but 2 of those times the wonderful SWT train managers Wintonian and I have such joyous experience with have given me the third degree and treated me like a fare dodger (because clearly I'd have paid 50 quid to fare dodge?!!!). Stena and Irish Ferries have no issue at all it's really just SWT (how often do I find myself saying that!) and occasionally Virgin (not an issue tonight as it's Chiltern Mainline 90min express tonight!).
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Major props to Arriva Trains Wales as the 2256 Chester to Holyhead comes from Cardiff and so was cancelled due to the signal problems at Pontyclun and Newport. Somehow they rustled up a 158 to get people from Shrewsbury to Chester and then a 175 from Chester on. Not that challenging given the time of day and depots I agree but in this day and age not that common and certainly the very full 2 coaches of people would appreciate the effort if they knew. When I discovered it initially had been cancelled I was on the late running 2020 Virgin from New Street and so asked the guard to hold the 2123 at Crewe to catch the 2200 from Chester (I know never done but worth a shot as we were at that point due in at 2124). Guards response was to return and say I was panicking for no reason as there was a 2256...I again explained it was cancelled so he then replied that as no journey plan from Woking he could get would use the 2020 from Brum to Crewe it wasn't Virgin's fault as I shouldn't have been on their delayed train but not to worry as Arriva would have to get me to Londonderry from Chester and I wouldn't be stranded overnight as I could always get the HSS in the morning (That would be the HSS that finished a few weeks ago lol!)
Get to Crewe and many people delayed from Cardiff trains attempting to get to Newcastle and it was already 2130 and so they were dispatched on the 2145 to Manc with the promise that he would contact Picc staf to ensure they were met and transferred to their connection with it being held if necessary. Didn't rate his chances of holding it but at least he tried. Two Virgin staff two very different approaches.