Said wrong station by mistake

[IneedHelp]

So I was in a village station which I don't live at, I did not feel comfortable to use the ticket machine there as there were people fighting albeit jovial. So I went to the city station to buy a ticket, however I said the wrong station by sheer accident and said the city station by accident because that is the one I usually use, it would make no sense for me to lie about this as if I were to be truly trying for a cheaper fare I would've chosen a closer station. I did in fact not pay attention to what I said.

However the revenue protection officer saw what I said and asked how did I get into the station and I stumbled on my words and not realised until he wanted to interview me what I did was wrong, because I've been very stressed lately and have had near to no sleep.

I am wondering how badly screwed I am? Will the TOC prosecute me?

 

[najaB]

I am wondering how badly screwed I am? Will the TOC prosecute me?

If I understand your post correctly, you caught a train from Alice to Charlie, but on arriving at Charlie you asked for a ticket from Bob. Further, would it be correct to assume that (the train ride from Bob to Charlie is considerably shorter and hence cheaper than that from Alice to Charlie?

The likelihood of a prosecution depends very much on where Alice, Bob and Charlie are and who operates the trains. For example, if they are in rural England you might be able to resolve this matter by way of a settlement fee. If, on the other hand, you are dealing with an organisation such as TfL then it is considerably more likely that you'll be needing the services of a solicitor.

In short, until we know Alice, Bob and Charlie's real identities and the TOC concerned there is little concrete advice to be provided.

 

[island]

When you chose not to use the ticket machine and joined a train without a ticket, you committed a criminal offence. This was made worse by specifying the wrong origin station at your destination.

However, in most cases this type of issue can be resolved by a monetary payment; to be able to advise you accurately we would need to know at a minimum the train operating company which you attempted to defraud out of the proper fare and ideally the stations in question

 

[IneedHelp]

If I understand your post correctly, you caught a train from Alice to Charlie, but on arriving at Charlie you asked for a ticket from Bob. Further, would it be correct to assume that (the train ride from Bob to Charlie is considerably shorter and hence cheaper than that from Alice to Charlie?

The likelihood of a prosecution depends very much on where Alice, Bob and Charlie are and who operates the trains. For example, if they are in rural England you might be able to resolve this matter by way of a settlement fee. If, on the other hand, you are dealing with an organisation such as TfL then it is considerably more likely that you'll be needing the services of a solicitor.

In short, until we know Alice, Bob and Charlie's real identities and the TOC concerned there is little concrete advice to be provided.

Thank you for your reply.

The train company is Arriva Trains Wales and the amount I lied by made my fare from £14.40 to £11.10.

The original station I was at was Llanelli, the station I claimed to be from was Swansea and the ticket was at Cardiff. I rarely ever use the Llanelli train station.

I would be very, very welling to settle this out of court, I had no intention to deceive the gentleman.

 

[najaB]

Thank you for your reply.

The train company is Arriva Trains Wales and the amount I lied by made my fare from £14.40 to £11.10.

The original station I was at was Llanelli, the station I claimed to be from was Swansea and the ticket was at Cardiff. I rarely ever use the Llanelli train station.

Hmm. Bit of a 'bad news, good news' situation here. ATW have been stamping down on short faring quite heavily of late, so they aren't likely to just let this slide. The good news is that they are more likely to settle than some other TOCs might be.

When they write to you (it could be a few weeks or even a few months): apologise, make no attempt to blame your actions on anyone/anything else, promise not to do it again and offer to pay the fare and costs. Based on previous cases there's a better than evens chance that you'll be able to settle the matter without going to court.

 

[island]

Llanelli station has a ticket office. Why did you not buy a ticket there?

 

[northwichcat]

Llanelli station has a ticket office. Why did you not buy a ticket there?

It only has limited hours though.

Monday - Friday 06:10 - 12:40
Saturday 07:00 - 13:30
Sunday Closed

I wonder if the ticket office was closed and the passenger said they didn't feel safe buying from the TVM because of who was hanging around and stated the correct station, whether they would have been allowed to buy a ticket in Cardiff.

 

[6Gman]

Would the Conductor not normally walk through the train between Llanelli and Cardiff?

Thus offering a further opportunity to purchase?

 

[Greenback]

Llanelli is not a village, though that's not relevant to the issue at hand.

The hours of the ticket office are as Collins stated. After that, it's common practice to buy on board. I'm sure form my own observations during the last decade that more people do this than use the TVM.

Consequently, it's sometimes impossible for the conductor to get through the train. I once saw a guard spend the entire journey selling a ticket to Southampton Central to a man a few seats away.

I think that this is why ATW are having a bit of a crackdown on those who enjoin trains without having availed themselves of the ticket buying facilities.

However, I do think the OP has a very good chance of settling if they are honest, apologetic and genuinely remorseful.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Llanelli is not a village, though that's not relevant to the issue at hand.

The hours of the ticket office are as Collins stated. After that, it's common practice to buy on board. I'm sure form my own observations during the last decade that more people do this than use the TVM.

Consequently, it's sometimes impossible for the conductor to get through the train. I once saw a guard spend the entire journey selling a ticket to Southampton Central to a man a few seats away.

I think that this is why ATW are having a bit of a crackdown on those who enjoin trains without having availed themselves of the ticket buying facilities.

However, I do think the OP has a very good chance of settling if they are honest, apologetic and genuinely remorseful.

South Wales really needs to be a Penalty Fare area and all this nonsense will stop. "Shwni" won't need to worry about being geographically challenged anymore - straight to a fine- saying you got on without a ticket at a bigger station with longer opening hours on their booking office and multiple TVM's? Prosecution cat nip.........

Back in the good old days when passenger numbers were fewer and the fare yield much lower it was accepted that a small % would get away with it on pay trains as the cost £ in closing the hole was always greater than any £ yield of doing it, however not anymore the potential fare yield lost is much larger and Pay Trains in Metropolitan areas are an anathema now. Its too busy and conductors don't have a chance to get round.

 

[Gareth Marston]

South Wales really needs to be a Penalty Fare area and all this nonsense will stop. "Shwni" won't need to worry about being geographically challenged anymore - straight to a fine- saying you got on without a ticket at a bigger station with longer opening hours on their booking office and multiple TVM's? Prosecution cat nip.........

Back in the good old days when passenger numbers were fewer and the fare yield much lower it was accepted that a small % would get away with it on pay trains as the cost £ in closing the hole was always greater than any £ yield of doing it, however not anymore the potential fare yield lost is much larger and Pay Trains in Metropolitan areas are an anathema now. Its too busy and conductors don't have a chance to get round.

The OP in the Silly silly me thread came to a settlement that cost just under £100.00 for the same offence with same TOC the OP here will do well to read that thread.

 

[Greenback]

It's endemic in South Wales just to ignore ticket facilities and hop on that something needs to be done.

Here, though, and like the other incident you refer to Gareth, things have been made much more serious by the OP lying about the origin station. I hope that they would see a settlement of £100 as a good result.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's endemic in South Wales just to ignore ticket facilities and hop on that something needs to be done.

Here, though, and like the other incident you refer to Gareth, things have been made much more serious by the OP lying about the origin station. I hope that they would see a settlement of £100 as a good result.

This is about the 4th thread in the last few weeks involving attempts to short fare to Cardiff. ATW clearly are onto it and people are being caught out this is probably the tip of the iceberg. Pretending you forgot where you got on is just not going to wash and the message needs to be got out which I'm sure it will be shortly with a major campaign/clampdown in the wind.

I can see more threads popping up shortly and "Mr Innocent" appearing in the Western Mail proclaiming how unfairly hes been treated as he thought train travel was free of charge if the sun was shining and he couldn't see where the TVM/Booking Office was or whatever.

The situation is different here in Newtown to a lot of South Wales as the Conductors do have a chance to get round (next stop Welshpool they have 14 minutes). The Cambrian Railcard means the regular commuters buy daily instead of having seasons (except for the Shrewsbury 6th Form college lot on Educational ones) - there's always a couple who turn up late and get on board but come in the next day I'm pretty sure they don't intend to avoid paying its just that they know they can buy onboard if their running a bit late or there's a queue in the booking office.

However I do see people who act in a way that suggests there up to trying to avoid paying. The give away is that they don't come near the booking office. You can access the Caersws end of the UP Platform without going near the Booking Office and you always see one or two getting on the rear door of trains having just come round the corner onto the platform as the train arrives. The 2 Car Stop Marker on the UP Platform is right outside the Booking Office- I see people come up steps and turn left and go under the footbridge out of site of me and only emerge to walk down to get on train.

Weekdays I reckon its usually 5% of folk who do this when I'm here, but come Saturdays it goes up considerably. Groups are bad as they tend to wait on all of the group turning up before thinking about buying a ticket and someones always late. We do go out and engage them as STAR will sell group tickets individually and get them coming in. Ive also noticed if people are queuing up to buy tickets the new arrivals tend to join the back of the queue copying whats going on however if everyone is standing on the platform Ive seen new arrivals just go and stand with them when there no queue in the Booking Office.

 

[najaB]

This is about the 4th thread in the last few weeks involving attempts to short fare to Cardiff.

Isn't it the case that ticket sales from Grangetown to Cardiff dropped significantly when it was barriered (or acquired a TVM?), the drop being equalled by increases from stations further out towards Barry?

 

[Greenback]

I'd say that the majority that use Llanelli and buy on board have just got into the habit of doing so. They don't like TVM's, they only arrive in the nick of time, the booking office is shut or busy, or all of those things.

It's going to be difficult for ATW to change the habit, and I reckon there could be some high profile incidents and a lot of flak for the company if they do clamp down on it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Isn't it the case that ticket sales from Grangetown to Cardiff dropped significantly when it was barriered (or acquired a TVM?), the drop being equalled by increases from stations further out towards Barry?

Yes that was the case, TVM I'm pretty sure. Likewise Cathays has been barriered as Valley boys and girls use to pile off there and walk the short distance into town. Pontypridd and Caerphilly have also got barriers so the places you could claim to have got on without ticket buying facilities have been pushed back further away from Cardiff and in the same fare group.

I'd have to check up but the Valleys are still not 100% TVM or booking office and a lot of them are AM only.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'd say that the majority that use Llanelli and buy on board have just got into the habit of doing so. They don't like TVM's, they only arrive in the nick of time, the booking office is shut or busy, or all of those things.

It's going to be difficult for ATW to change the habit, and I reckon there could be some high profile incidents and a lot of flak for the company if they do clamp down on it.

Ditto that most places. I'll say it again but South Wales needs to be a penalty fare area. One of the priorities for new franchise holder?

 

[Jamo04]

Hi All.
Was there any update on this thread? Have you received a letter? I am in an almost identical position myself! I have written back to Transport Investigations apologizing and hoping to settle out of court with a fine.