'Safeguarding issues' caused by timetable changes

[Agent_Squash]

Saw this in the Evening Mail today - the Furness line timetable changes certainly do provide an improvement to return times, but this doesn't seem to be mentioned in this report? Load of rubbish in my opinion.

PUPILS who travel from Barrow to Ulverston every day could be forced to endure 11-hour days after beleaguered rail firm Northern changed train times.

Northern is due to publish its finalised new timetable next month, which could mean the 200 pupils from Barrow who attend UVHS in Ulverston will be away from home from 7.30am until 6pm.

Under the new timetable, the early train, which currently leaves Barrow at 8.11am and arrives at 8.27am, will depart at 7.50am and arrive in Ulverston at 8.04am.

Staff at Ulverston Victoria High School have warned the changes represent a "safeguarding issue" as the school does not typically start until 8.30am.

The return train journey has also been changed, to a slightly earlier time, which would mean pupils leaving school on time will be forced to wait for the later one and get back to Barrow for 5.30pm.

UVHS assistant headteacher Richard Butler, who was awarded the MBE for services to music education in the New Year's Honours List, said the changes were "ridiculous".

"Pupils will be able to get into school earlier but it does give us safeguarding concerns in that we will need to have staff in for that number of students," he said.

"There are also issues with the return train times but we have a lot of after-school activities which they could stay for. The problem is it lengthens the school day for the students, some are going to be leaving home at 7.15am and not getting home until 5.30pm at night.

"That's a long day especially when we can't see why they have to change the times. They provide a bad enough service as it is in my view, the trains are overcrowded, it's ridiculous."

A spokesman for Northern said: “We are aware that changes to the timetable in May will have an impact on commuters and schoolchildren who rely on our services.

“As part of the new timetable we have increased the number of trains that will call at Roose, offering more options and greater flexibility for our customers.

“Details of the new timetables can be found via National Rail Enquiries and will be published in full on the Northern website in the near future. In the meantime we will liaise with the school to ensure pupils and parents have all the information they need.”

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/Hundreds-o...anges-f0976ceb-5975-4292-b4c7-9c4f79730bae-ds

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Safeguarding issue"? What a load of wibble. I regularly used to arrive at school before 8am when we started at 9, used to sit chatting with my mates.

 

[221129]

The answer is quite frankly tough.

 

[AlterEgo]

Load of old bobbins. I used to arrive at school at 8am.

Perfect time to do that homework you er, forgot to do, the night before.

 

[StoneRoad]

That reportage is real wibble ... the journo was looking for something startling to headline the article on.
I could, maybe, understand it if you were talking about junior school sprogs, but surely high schoolers can look after themselves for less than half an hour, especially as they've just spent almost half that on a train ...

 

[EssexGonzo]

For 200 pupils, they could open early and sit them down to do homework. Absolute rubbish article.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I used to get up before we went to bed....................

 

[transmanche]

For 200 pupils, they could open early and sit them down to do homework.

And who's going to pay for the staff to do that?

 

[221129]

And who's going to pay for the staff to do that?

That's the School's and Parents problem not Northern's.

 

[transmanche]

That's the School's and Parents problem not Northern's.

I don't recall saying it was Northern's problem. I just wondered that as EssexGonzo thinks opening up the school early is such a trivial matter, who does he think is going to pay for it?

 

[6Gman]

The press article could be more informative.

The morning train runs ... 20 minutes earlier, which frankly is neither here nor there! The afternoon train is retimed, we are told, but without any explanation of what difference it makes.

Having been involved with planning the Cambrian timetable in the past where we were always very careful to cater for the schools traffic I'm surprised there hasn't been some discussion with the school(s) involved.

Of course one might ask why Barrow children go to school ten miles away [though I suspect I can guess]? And a dedicated school bus would be entirely practical (unlike on the Cambrian).

 

[RJ21]

Looking at RTT it seems the likely services are at the moment 08:06 BIF - ULV 08:45 and then 16:14 ULV - BIF 16:37 with a later journey at 16:41 ULV - BIF 17:05.

That becomes 07:46 BIF - ULV 08:04 and 16:53 ULV - BIF 17:16, the 16:14 looks to have been brought forward by 30 minutes making impractical for school times.

So it's 20 minutes earlier in the morning and 39 minutes later in the afternoon, adds an hour to the day, but not exactly terrible, and given the problem Northern's timetable planners have had recently what else could be expected?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That reportage is real wibble ... the journo was looking for something startling to headline the article on.
I could, maybe, understand it if you were talking about junior school sprogs, but surely high schoolers can look after themselves for less than half an hour, especially as they've just spent almost half that on a train ...

Quite, if you can travel alone by train you can sit on a bench for half an hour and chat. Young people typically like doing that.

There are probably also service buses if they are that bothered.

 

[RJ21]

Seems to be the usual local journo trying to find something to write about and build the Himalayas from a bag of sand.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Looking at RTT it seems the likely services are at the moment 08:06 BIF - ULV 08:45 and then 16:14 ULV - BIF 16:37 with a later journey at 16:41 ULV - BIF 17:05.

That becomes 07:46 BIF - ULV 08:04 and 16:53 ULV - BIF 17:16, the 16:14 looks to have been brought forward by 30 minutes making impractical for school times.

So it's 20 minutes earlier in the morning and 39 minutes later in the afternoon, adds an hour to the day, but not exactly terrible, and given the problem Northern's timetable planners have had recently what else could be expected?

The school appears to finish at 15:30 - surely with it being a 5 minute walk to the station doesn't make it impractical?

 

[RJ21]

The school appears to finish at 15:30 - surely with it being a 5 minute walk to the station doesn't make it impractical?

It should be plenty of time, they'd just have to hurry up and not hang about like school children usually do. I'll admit I hadn't looked to see how close the school was to the station. Really does look like a mountain from a mole hill now.

 

[randyrippley]

theres a perfectly good Stagecoach bus service every 20 minutes or so on the route

 

[chris_in_salop]

The answer is quite frankly tough.

I agree, tough. I also agree with the posters on this thread who suggest that the kids catch a bus instead. After all, don't these kids realise that the Railway should run for the convenience of the Railway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The school appears to finish at 15:30 - surely with it being a 5 minute walk to the station doesn't make it impractical?

I used to comfortably get the 1540 from Ormskirk finishing school at 1525 (teachers would often not finish exactly on time). That seems a similar distance.

This really is nothing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, tough. I also agree with the posters on this thread who suggest that the kids catch a bus instead. After all, don't these kids realise that the Railway should run for the convenience of the Railway?

What's to say that the timing of the new train isn't more convenient for some other people?

The kids don't care. They really don't. They'll happily sit chatting to their mates for a bit longer.

 

[dmncf]

Why no discussion of keeping the school day the same length, but starting it a little earlier or later to better suit the train times? Would earlier suit the morning train and allow pupils to catch the earlier afternoon train?
I do think the school should take some responsibility here. It must be nigh on impossible to plan a train timetable, even for the simplest branch, to suit every conceivable user - even to suit every school if they're at multiple towns along a line.

 

[Starmill]

It does seem a bit poor that there is no departure between 0746 and 0846. One might expect there to be most demand around that time, and there are more frequent early departures provided - 0453, 0549, 0611, 0647, 0708, 0746. But also they probably know more than anyone else about demand from Barrow so...

I had to be in school for 0835, and I usually arrived between 0800 and 0810 as a result otherwise I would arrive on the bus 30 minutes later, between 0830 on time, but only just, and 0840 - late.

 

[nedchester]

Why no discussion of keeping the school day the same length, but starting it a little earlier or later to better suit the train times? Would earlier suit the morning train and allow pupils to catch the earlier afternoon train?
I do think the school should take some responsibility here. It must be nigh on impossible to plan a train timetable, even for the simplest branch, to suit every conceivable user - even to suit every school if they're at multiple towns along a line.

You cannot just change the school day just like that to suit the train timetable. But there again it isn't the responsibility of Northern to ensure that their timetable suits the school either.

It's just one of those things.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You cannot just change the school day just like that to suit the train timetable.

Well, if most young people go there by train it might actually make sense to do so. But that probably is not the case here.

 

[Starmill]

But there again it isn't the responsibility of Northern to ensure that their timetable suits the school either.

Northern are required to consult stakeholders throughout the course of their franchise. This doesn't mean that a school will get priority over everyone else, but there should be a channel of communication between Northern and all of the schools where lots of children are using the trains to travel to school. This is of benefit both to them and to the school.

The question here that I am interested in is do Northern actually know about this school? In some cases, the usage of the trains by school children is never identified by management as the children never buy tickets... Given Barrow-in-Furness now has gates I would imagine most of these do have tickets now.

I think some schools might even have schemes with Northern where termly season tickets are ordered by parents and distributed through the school.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's also not glaringly obvious that kids would travel from a larger town to a smaller town to school when Barrow has schools itself (though I'm sure the parents have their reasons). The demand would logically be the other way round.

 

[Bertie the bus]

So it's 20 minutes earlier in the morning and 39 minutes later in the afternoon, adds an hour to the day, but not exactly terrible, and given the problem Northern's timetable planners have had recently what else could be expected?

A timetable that works for the users of the service? Though based on Northern's response in that article that is obviously the last thing on their mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A timetable that works for the users of the service? Though based on Northern's response in that article that is obviously the last thing on their mind.

You can't make an hourly timetable that suits all users of the service. Ormskirk-Preston will be the same - overall it's a big win, but there will be a few losers.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Nonsense. It isn't 'a big win' if the services used by the largest number of passengers are of little use to them. An hourly off peak service throughout the day is a) probably not even required and b) is of signficantly less importance than the busier services in the morning and afternoon.

 

[47271]

Counterintuitive flows of school pupils in Cumbria is an odd thing. I regularly use the mid afternoon Manchester-Edinburgh Transpennine service and it gets absolutely swamped with them between Penrith and Carlisle. I suspect that the Ulverston school is considered superior to that of anything provided in Barrow, just as what's on offer in Penrith is thought better than Carlisle.

Somehow I can't see TPE being too interested if anyone kicked off about Manchester Airport-Scotland times not working to suit a school in Penrith...