S7 + 1 Stock

[The 4th Rail]

Today I was on a S7 + 1 on the Met line to Uxbridge and I started wondering why do these trains even exist? , was it to test the S7 interior before they were introduced on the Hammersmith line. How many S7 + 1's are operating on the met line? Are they going to lose the 8th car or be given S8 interior's in the future?

For anyone who dosent know an S7 + 1 is an S8 Stock with the interior of an S7

 

[Manchester77]

A large number of S8s had to go back to Derby for modification work so to cover for their loss some (4 I think) S7s had an extra car inserted as a temporary measure until the S8s needed to be modified had been done.

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC S Stock is going back to Derby for warranty work so an S7+1 is formed to fill in. It's not a permanent formation. There is also the option of S8-1 if an S7 is out of action.

 

[The 4th Rail]

A large number of S8s had to go back to Derby for modification work

What needed modifying?

 

[starrymarkb]

It's Bombardier so probably a lot of things

 

[Dstock7080]

There are 3 S7+1 trains on the MET.

They will lose the extra car and be transferred onto S7 work.
At Derby are 3 6-car trains waiting for the M2D cars to be inserted.

All S8 trains require workback to Bombardier Derby.

 

[spinba11]

38 have already been and come back.

 

[mainframe444]

There are 3 S7+1 trains on the MET.

They will lose the extra car and be transferred onto S7 work.
At Derby are 3 6-car trains waiting for the M2D cars to be inserted.

All S8 trains require workback to Bombardier Derby.

Currently, one of these trains is at old Dalby for commissioning.

Train 99 (21381/2). It has an M2 car from train 165 (23514).

It's actual M2D car (25382) is still running as part of T68, an S7 + 1.

MainFrame

 

[tranzitjim]

There are 3 S7+1 trains on the MET.

They will lose the extra car and be transferred onto S7 work.
At Derby are 3 6-car trains waiting for the M2D cars to be inserted.

All S8 trains require workback to Bombardier Derby.

Oh gee. Would have been smarter to use the four cars from the same S7 set, that way you should only have 1x S7 sitting at Derby for this purpose.

Is there any reason for why they needed one car out of each set only?

 

[Dstock7080]

The only explanation is that they wanted the early deliveries to include M2D (de-icing) cars and so took these cars from the last 3 de-icers built.
At that stage they seemed unaware that all S8s would require workback and delay this programme heavily.

Now 21385/86 has had M2 car 23516 added to make an S7.

 

[Haydn1971]

Daft question maybe, but how do you get the tube stock to Derby ? Are they taken by road, towed via rail or placed on freight carriages ?

 

[Manchester77]

Daft question maybe, but how do you get the tube stock to Derby ? Are they taken by road, towed via rail or placed on freight carriages ?

The same way they get here they use 20s and barrier wagons and haul them up there

 

[starrymarkb]

S Stock goes by Rail, 2009 stock goes by road (My understanding is it's fine on the mainline, but is too big for the other tube lines it would need to traverse to reach the mainline)

 

[Haydn1971]

Given there are no third rails in Derby, what pulls the stock ?

 

[causton]

Given there are no third rails in Derby, what pulls the stock ?

As said above (possibly unclearly, if you didn't know you were looking for it you wouldn't see it I guess!) class 20s

https://www.flickr.com/photos/herts...RHZ-eFgyRn-bmMBJN-eibHi3-fV6jJt-dnfGZ2-nkNpWc

 

[hassaanhc]

I randomly managed to find one on Friday, which is no mean feat considering that there are only three of them and I rarely use the Metropolitan Line . It was doing a Fast Amersham and I only found it because I'd taken a Circle Line from Liverpool Street to Baker Street, spent some time taking photos of the station, then seeing the Fast and going on it. It was only after boarding I'd realised what I'd got, and saved me going searching for one :P


Metropolitan Line S Stock 21324 by hassaanhc, on Flickr

 

[causton]

I randomly managed to find one on Friday, which is no mean feat considering that there are only three of them and I rarely use the Metropolitan Line . It was doing a Fast Amersham and I only found it because I'd taken a Circle Line from Liverpool Street to Baker Street, spent some time taking photos of the station, then seeing the Fast and going on it. It was only after boarding I'd realised what I'd got, and saved me going searching for one :P


Metropolitan Line S Stock 21324 by hassaanhc, on Flickr

Someone at the depot obviously hates the Amersham commuters then putting the all-sideways seating on a fast service, honestly!

 

[Haydn1971]

I wasn't looking so I didn't see the ref to the Class 20's - cheers both nice pic too !

 

[bb21]

Now 21385/86 has had M2 car 23516 added to make an S7.

Will it enter service like that initially or will the cars be reformed, ie. 23516 swapped with 25386, before entering service?

 

[joeykins82]

The only explanation is that they wanted the early deliveries to include M2D (de-icing) cars and so took these cars from the last 3 de-icers built.

The 3 S7+1 trains in service comprise 2 de-icer cars though; they already had a de-icer but got an extra M2D. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JjQ1NJMzB2ZERFYlAxREhEREE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

 

[DynamicSpirit]

S Stock goes by Rail, 2009 stock goes by road (My understanding is it's fine on the mainline, but is too big for the other tube lines it would need to traverse to reach the mainline)

Do you mean there is actually a in principle continuous way of getting by rail from the Victoria line tracks to mainline tracks?

 

[Manchester77]

Do you mean there is actually a in principle continuous way of getting by rail from the Victoria line tracks to mainline tracks?

Yeah looking at the carto metro map, you go from Northumberland Park down to Finsbury Park and onto the Piccadilly line all the way to Ruislip and then there's a siding next yo the Met/Pic shared line which you'd reverse on and then access the Central Line Ruislip Depot where you'd go down to road 77 and then reverse and go up where there's a BR link between roads 25 and 27

 

[Nym]

Do you mean there is actually a in principle continuous way of getting by rail from the Victoria line tracks to mainline tracks?

Or onto the picc to Hammersmith then any route you like to Neasden.

 

[tsr]

Or onto the picc to Hammersmith then any route you like to Neasden.

Or indeed Rayners Lane - Harrow on the Hill - Amersham etc.

 

[Nym]

Or indeed Rayners Lane - Harrow on the Hill - Amersham etc.

Can only really attach / detach locomotives at Neasden or Ruislip though, maybe Northfeilds, Ealing Common or Acton Works.

 

[starrymarkb]

Do you mean there is actually a in principle continuous way of getting by rail from the Victoria line tracks to mainline tracks?

The only Underground line that doesn't have a direct rail connection to the others is the Waterloo and City. (everything has to go in and out by crane through a hatch in the roof of the underground depot) The Northern also connects to the Picc near Kings Cross and the Bakerloo and Jubliee connect at Baker Street

Apart from one off stock deliveries these connections normally just see engineering trains.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The only Underground line that doesn't have a direct rail connection to the others is the Waterloo and City. (everything has to go in and out by crane through a hatch in the roof of the underground depot) The Northern also connects to the Picc near Kings Cross and the Bakerloo and Jubliee connect at Baker Street

Apart from one off stock deliveries these connections normally just see engineering trains.

Interesting, thanks.

So putting that all together, I make it:

• District/subsurface lines and Bakerloo have obvious connections with the overground (Richmond, Amersham, Queens Park).
• Piccadilly connects to District (West of Hammersmith)
• Central connects to Chiltern (Ruislip, and also to Piccadilly/Met via a siding around Ruislip)
• Victoria connects to Piccadilly (Finsbury Park)
• Northern connects to Piccadilly (Kings Cross)
• Jubilee connects to Bakerloo (Baker St, I'm assuming that's a consequence of Baker Street-Stanmore used to be Bakerloo anyway)
• (Does the Jubilee also connect to the Metropolitan as well, between Finchley Road and Wembley Park?)

As you say, that accounts for everything except Waterloo and City - and indirectly the Victoria because their trains are too big to use the Piccadilly connection.

 

[bluegoblin7]

• District/subsurface lines and Bakerloo have obvious connections with the overground (Richmond, Amersham, Queens Park).

The District also connects at East Putney and just before Wimbledon, a route routinely used by SWT for empty stock movements and the odd passenger train.

• (Does the Jubilee also connect to the Metropolitan as well, between Finchley Road and Wembley Park?)

Yes, there are connections south of Wembley Park/north of Neasden depot and at the southern end of Neasden depot.

 

[Dstock7080]

Add Gunnersbury and Barking to NR coonections with District.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There are plenty of now severed connections:

At Ealing Broadway, the Central and District were connected until a few years ago, and the District and GWR were connected a long time ago
At Whitechapel, the District and ELL were connected until National Rail-isation of the latter
At Newbury Park, the Central was connected to the GEML
At Leyton, the Central was connected to the WAML
At Liverpool Street, the subsurface lines used to be connected to the mainline