Ryanair and Easyjet

[richw]

4 weeks time I will give an appraisal of both.

I'm booked to fly UK- Athens with EasyJet, then Athens to Chania with Ryanair.

Worked out less than 50% of the direct UK to Chania fare!

 

[WestCoast]

As it was a legal requirement for Ryanair to provide such provision surely Ryanair would have been insured to cover such instances?

Which government should have covered the problem in your opinion? A number of trans-atlantic flights got diverted to Turkey because it was impartial for them to turn back or to land in any country affected by the ash cloud. Would Turkey pay up? Would other countries then compensate them (despite Turkey not being a full EU member)?

Of course I don't know for certain, but I'd imagine an airline with a turnover and passenger volume as large as Ryanair would self-insure against such instances. Many insurers also refused to pay out during the ash crisis.

It's a debatable issue. It depends on one's viewpoint whether a £50 ticket on a budget airline should entitle passengers to two weeks of hotel accommodation costs, food etc, due to a weather issue outside their control. The EU believe so, most other regions of the world don't. Before EU261 such instances would be a matter for travel insurance or a bonded tour operator if you had one. Outside the EU, it still is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which government should have covered the problem in your opinion?

Whichever Government was stuck with the people should have provided the kind of emergency-evacuee accommodation (school halls etc) and basic food and water until things got moving again. Of course individuals could have taken the hit on hotels etc if they wished, but it is just about keeping people safe in the wake of what was essentially a somewhat middle-class environmental disaster.

I don't see it as the airlines' role at all, as there was no way it could be construed as their fault.

I personally think, as I believe do Ryanair, that airline delay compensation should be similar to the railway - capped at the price of the ticket. And things like hotel accommodation/alternative transport come in where things go wrong, but within reason; really, a couple of nights is probably all that is justified in almost all cases, beyond that there's travel insurance.

 

[fowler9]

Whichever Government was stuck with the people should have provided the kind of emergency-evacuee accommodation (school halls etc) and basic food and water until things got moving again. Of course individuals could have taken the hit on hotels etc if they wished, but it is just about keeping people safe in the wake of what was essentially a somewhat middle-class environmental disaster.

I don't see it as the airlines' role at all, as there was no way it could be construed as their fault.

I personally think, as I believe do Ryanair, that airline delay compensation should be similar to the railway - capped at the price of the ticket. And things like hotel accommodation come in where things go wrong, but within reason; really, a couple of nights is probably all that is justified in almost all cases, beyond that there's travel insurance.

The only four times I flew with British Airways were on equally skanky aircraft. I'm not sure I would shell out on them again on the offchance a massive Icelandic volcano might blow its top.

 

[Hornet]

I think many on here do not remember how expensive flying was before the LCC's appeared. As someone who travelled in the '80's with Aer Lingus and BA, paying for a flight was akin to servicing a mortgage (£100 - £420 Economy Return dependent on availability). Poor choice of flights, limited airports to fly from and the queues for check in, and I was doing this once a fortnight, paid for out of my own hard earned. Ryanair were revolutionary in Europe, and had to fight hard against the Legacy Carriers, and their protectionist Governments.

O'Leary took them on and transformed air travel in Europe. I don't think any other CEO would have won the battle so utterly as he did. Flying today is substantially cheaper both with the LCC and Legacy's. I was averaging £150 for London Dublin Flights in the late '80's. Today I regularly pay a third of that price with a far greater selection of flights and destinations, and Ryanair, in my experience, (and I still fly back to the UK a lot), have been consistently the best performer, better than Aer Lingus, Cityjet and Flybe, and streets ahead of the now defunct BMI. As for BA, their customer service after a cancelled flight was appalling, (took me six months to get my fare reimbursed). I avoid them like the plague on short haul now.

 

[ivanhoe]

Whichever Government was stuck with the people should have provided the kind of emergency-evacuee accommodation (school halls etc) and basic food and water until things got moving again. Of course individuals could have taken the hit on hotels etc if they wished, but it is just about keeping people safe in the wake of what was essentially a somewhat middle-class environmental disaster.

I don't see it as the airlines' role at all, as there was no way it could be construed as their fault.

I personally think, as I believe do Ryanair, that airline delay compensation should be similar to the railway - capped at the price of the ticket. And things like hotel accommodation/alternative transport come in where things go wrong, but within reason; really, a couple of nights is probably all that is justified in almost all cases, beyond that there's travel insurance.

That's a fair summary. Also people must really get into their heads that LCC's are point to point. Missing a connection is your problem. You can of course get around this by using legacy airlines and of course adequate travel insurance. Too much where's there is blame, there's a claim culture in this country. The only winners are lawyers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a fair summary. Also people must really get into their heads that LCC's are point to point. Missing a connection is your problem.

Sort of. I would suggest that if you do book a low-cost "connection" with a reasonable layover (say 3+ hours) and it is missed because of the airline's fault (i.e. something for which EU compensation would qualify), then the airline should, being reasonable, accommodate you on the next flight on which it has a spare seat - i.e. the airline should not get to derive financial benefit in selling another flight from something that was outside of anyone's sensible control. But that's all its liability should be.

 

[Robertj21a]

I think many on here do not remember how expensive flying was before the LCC's appeared. As someone who travelled in the '80's with Aer Lingus and BA, paying for a flight was akin to servicing a mortgage (£100 - £420 Economy Return dependent on availability). Poor choice of flights, limited airports to fly from and the queues for check in, and I was doing this once a fortnight, paid for out of my own hard earned. Ryanair were revolutionary in Europe, and had to fight hard against the Legacy Carriers, and their protectionist Governments.

O'Leary took them on and transformed air travel in Europe. I don't think any other CEO would have won the battle so utterly as he did. Flying today is substantially cheaper both with the LCC and Legacy's. I was averaging £150 for London Dublin Flights in the late '80's. Today I regularly pay a third of that price with a far greater selection of flights and destinations, and Ryanair, in my experience, (and I still fly back to the UK a lot), have been consistently the best performer, better than Aer Lingus, Cityjet and Flybe, and streets ahead of the now defunct BMI. As for BA, their customer service after a cancelled flight was appalling, (took me six months to get my fare reimbursed). I avoid them like the plague on short haul now.

Well said, and much like my own experiences. It's very easy to forget how expensive flights were not so very long ago. Since Ryanair I've travelled across most of Europe, on many occasions, and always for only a few pounds.

 

[northwichcat]

Of course I don't know for certain, but I'd imagine an airline with a turnover and passenger volume as large as Ryanair would self-insure against such instances. Many insurers also refused to pay out during the ash crisis.

Many insurance companies don't pay out for things which should be covered by your airline/operator by law. I seem to recall many agreed to extend the end date of single trip insurance for people affected, so if they were admitted to hospital the day after they should have returned their insurance would still have covered them. Some providers including More Than have since added clauses which cover you if you book your flights and accommodation/tours separately and your outbound flight is affected any non-refundable accommodation/tours are covered.

Ryanair and other operators know what the law states and they know if adverse conditions they have a responsibility to get passengers home as soon as they can and provide accommodation and food if necessary. Passengers can choose to accept a refund and make their own way home but it's their choice if they do they not the airline's choice. Airlines also know that adverse conditions will occur, not just volcanic ash clouds but weather conditions as well like snow closing an Airport.

 

[radamfi]

That's a fair summary. Also people must really get into their heads that LCC's are point to point. Missing a connection is your problem. You can of course get around this by using legacy airlines and of course adequate travel insurance. Too much where's there is blame, there's a claim culture in this country. The only winners are lawyers.

Will travel insurance pay out for missed connections between two point-to-point flights? What will they pay out for? The next flight with the same airline, which may be the next day or several days later, or an alternative route using legacy airlines, or a mix of train/legacy airlines/low cost airlines getting there quicker? What is the minimum connection time you should allow between point-to-point flights if you want an insurance payout?

I'm particularly interested in evidence of "real world" payouts, where the insurer paid out without any fuss. Names of insurers and policy name would be useful.

 

[me123]

Will travel insurance pay out for missed connections between two point-to-point flights? What will they pay out for? The next flight with the same airline, which may be the next day or several days later, or an alternative route using legacy airlines, or a mix of train/legacy airlines/low cost airlines getting there quicker? What is the minimum connection time you should allow between point-to-point flights if you want an insurance payout?

I'm particularly interested in evidence of "real world" payouts, where the insurer paid out without any fuss. Names of insurers and policy name would be useful.

I don't know for certain, but when I've looked at my previous T&Cs it's always specified very vague terms about transfers, usually stating that you should allow "sufficient" time. I would interpret this, for the purposes of airlines, as arriving before the time the airline advises. For example, if an airline asks you to aim to be at the airport three hours beforehand, you should get a flight that is scheduled to touch down three hours before your next flight is due to depart.

However, I've no practical experience of doing this and you'd need to check with your travel insurance provider.

I wouldn't even consider making a transfer on a LCC, to be honest. You're much safer if the airline recognises your connection and can help you with your onward journey if there is a delay. As I've stated before, I often find the additional cost of flying with (for example) BA/KLM/other legacy carrier is minimal, and it is well worth paying a bit extra for the security they will provide over Ryanair and easyJet in this situation.

 

[ian959]

After talking with a few people in the travel insurance game, the consensus is that if the connecting flight is on the same e-ticket, then delay compensation due to a missed connection is payable by the insurance. If they are on different e-tickets, nothing doing, they are two independent flights so delay compensation is not applicable.

I have NEVER tested this personally since I avoid LCCs like the plague on anything but point to point journeys... Air Asia X for instance will not allow you to book flights on Air Asia or any of the myriad of other Air Asia branded airlines on the same booking to avoid the issue I suspect (or at least would not the last time I tried from their Australian web site).

I vaguely recall one travel insurance that specifically did mention that delays on connecting flights were NOT covered by the insurance - the insurance was definitely for point to point travel only. I THINK it was insurance issued by Philippine Airlines but I am not certain.

 

[radamfi]

However, I've no practical experience of doing this and you'd need to check with your travel insurance provider.

I'm not sure checking is that useful because I am sceptical about insurance in general as you are really at the mercy of the insurance company in the event of a claim, regardless what the policy wording says. I generally prefer to "self-insure" and avoid risk as much as possible unless insurance is compulsory, for example with car insurance.

 

[richw]

I don't know for certain, but when I've looked at my previous T&Cs it's always specified very vague terms about transfers, usually stating that you should allow "sufficient" time. I would interpret this, for the purposes of airlines, as arriving before the time the airline advises. For example, if an airline asks you to aim to be at the airport three hours beforehand, you should get a flight that is scheduled to touch down three hours before your next flight is due to depart.

However, I've no practical experience of doing this and you'd need to check with your travel insurance provider.

I wouldn't even consider making a transfer on a LCC, to be honest. You're much safer if the airline recognises your connection and can help you with your onward journey if there is a delay. As I've stated before, I often find the additional cost of flying with (for example) BA/KLM/other legacy carrier is minimal, and it is well worth paying a bit extra for the security they will provide over Ryanair and easyJet in this situation.

Virgin Money will pay up to £500 per person for missed flights on their silver and gold insurance policies.

Wording is as follows, cant see any exclusion for missed onward flights other than the bit I've highlighted bold

This section of cover only applies if you have purchased a Silver or Gold policy.
This section does not apply for trips in your home area, England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man.
What you are covered for We will pay up to the amount shown in the table of benefits for the extra reasonable costs of travel and accommodation you need to continue your trip if you cannot reach the original departure point of your trip on the outward or final return journey, as a result of public transport services failing (due to poor weather conditions, a strike, industrial action or a mechanical breakdown) or the vehicle you are travelling in being stuck in traffic, involved in an accident or having a mechanical breakdown. (This would not include your vehicle running out of petrol, oil or water, having a flat tyre or flat battery.)
Special exclusions which apply to section G
1. We will not cover the excess shown in the table of benefits on page 5.
2. Any claim which is directly or indirectly caused by, results from or is connected with a natural disaster or civil unrest (please see Definitions on pages 13–14
Special conditions which apply to section G Under this policy you must:
1. Leave enough time to arrive at your departure point at or before the recommended time;
2. Get confirmation of the reason for the delay and how long it lasts from the appropriate authority; and
3. Give us evidence that the vehicle was properly serviced and maintained and that any recovery or repair was made by a recognised breakdown organisation (if your claim is about your own vehicle suffering a mechanical breakdown).

A flight is public transport so should be covered as long as you leave enough time?

The Silver policy cost me £5.88 for a 6 day trip for me and my 3 year old. It was cheapest policy that covered what I required.

 

[radamfi]

A flight is public transport so should be covered as long as you leave enough time?

I'm not sure I like the wording, especially if you try to apply it to air transport. They are only covering delays caused by those specified reasons. For example, are delays due to baggage delays in the airport covered? What about delays in boarding passengers? Are delays due to baggage having to be offloaded from the plane covered? What about delays due to air traffic control restrictions? Is that equivalent to being "stuck in traffic"? What about delays due to the incoming service being late?

 

[WestCoast]

I wouldn't even consider making a transfer on a LCC, to be honest. You're much safer if the airline recognises your connection and can help you with your onward journey if there is a delay. As I've stated before, I often find the additional cost of flying with (for example) BA/KLM/other legacy carrier is minimal, and it is well worth paying a bit extra for the security they will provide over Ryanair and easyJet in this situation.

I think the future trend is for more LCCs to offer some form of connections. Indeed, all LCCs in North America offer connections through hubs.

Norwegian, Europe's third largest LCC, offers full-blown connections through places like Gatwick and Copenhagen on one ticket. Vueling, who are rapidly expanding, offer connections AND codeshare/interline with their owners BA and Iberia on certain routes.

Ryanair has been in the press taking about wanting to do deals with long-haul airlines to offer guaranteed connections on certain routes and easyJet has been mentioned in the trade press as considering this approach too.

Also interesting is innovation from certain airports. Milan Malpensa operate a kind of free connection / insurance scheme, whereby passengers can buy separate tickets but register to insure that connection if something goes wrong. Gatwick is going to offer something similar (for an extra fee) if you book through their portal.

 

[richw]

Having used easy jet and Ryanair in the last week, easyjet was like 1st class compared to Ryanair, better leg room, more comfortable seat position, staff more professional.

 

[TheEscapist_]

Having used easy jet and Ryanair in the last week, easyjet was like 1st class compared to Ryanair, better leg room, more comfortable seat position, staff more professional.

Better leg room? I found the exact opposite! I thought easyjet had 29" pitch and Ryanair 30". But yes, the easyjet planes are nice and bright inside and staff are much friendlier.

 

[richw]

On the Ryanair flight my knees were against the seat in front but not the case with easyjet. There may well have been more room at feet, but less at knees due to the fixed angle of the seats.

 

[sheff1]

I have used Ryanair & Easyjet about the same number of times over the years and both have had their pros & cons - I made my choice on convenience and price, in that order.

However, last year flying with Ryanair from Riga I was stung with a 'security' fee before I could travel. I had not seen any mention of this when booking and, it would appear, very few (if any) others had either. Ryanair blamed Riga airport for the charge but passengers with all other airlines did not have to pay so, to my mind, it was Ryanair to blame.

Since then I have avoided Ryanair entirely, which put me onto Wizzair from Vilnius last month. I approached with some trepidation after a very poor experience on my only other flight with them but I was very pleasantly surprised and will certainly be using them again - Ryanair's loss, although I doubt they care.

 

[richw]

I have used Ryanair & Easyjet about the same number of times over the years and both have had their pros & cons - I made my choice on convenience and price, in that order.

However, last year flying with Ryanair from Riga I was stung with a 'security' fee before I could travel. I had not seen any mention of this when booking and, it would appear, very few (if any) others had either. Ryanair blamed Riga airport for the charge but passengers with all other airlines did not have to pay so, to my mind, it was Ryanair to blame.

Since then I have avoided Ryanair entirely, which put me onto Wizzair from Vilnius last month. I approached with some trepidation after a very poor experience on my only other flight with them but I was very pleasantly surprised and will certainly be using them again - Ryanair's loss, although I doubt they care.

The other passengers did pay it, just unknowingly. Ryanair refused to collect the fee from their passengers, all other airlines automatically added it on to their ticket prices. Google search "Riga airport security fee" for plenty of info behind that.
Ryanair withdrew from Newquay due to passengers having to pay an "airport development fee". Ryanair are very vocal about their disagreement with such local airport fees and refuse to support them.

 

[sheff1]

The other passengers did pay it, just unknowingly. Ryanair refused to collect the fee from their passengers, all other airlines automatically added it on to their ticket prices. Google search "Riga airport security fee" for plenty of info behind that.
Ryanair withdrew from Newquay due to passengers having to pay an "airport development fee". Ryanair are very vocal about their disagreement with such local airport fees and refuse to support them.

Yes. I found all that out afterwards and how they had seemingly found a loophole to get round the requirement to clearly state the full unavoidable cost of a journey upfront. Ryanair quoted me a fare and then when I wanted to use the service I had booked I could not do so unless I paid an extra fee. They could have made the fee obvious at the booking stage or they could, as with Newquay, have withdrawn from Riga - they did neither and have lost my custom as a result (although, as I said, I doubt they care).

 

[edwin_m]

Just checked that link and Ryanair are now also including the security fee in flights from Riga. Which explains why I didn't have to pay it when I flew from there to Manchester with them last month.

I think Ryanair's seats may be thicker than those used by Wizzair and Easyjet, which may explain the discrepancy in knee room.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better leg room? I found the exact opposite! I thought easyjet had 29" pitch and Ryanair 30". But yes, the easyjet planes are nice and bright inside and staff are much friendlier.

The problem with Ryanair is that the seat backs are hard plastic, so if your knees are rammed up against them it hurts more. I also think the seats are slightly thicker.

Compare, for instance, the ScotRail Inverness 158s with the original layout - the Inverness units are actually slightly less well spaced (because they don't alternate airline-table-airline) but feel like they have more space.

That said, easyJet have just reseated their A320s with new seats and have in doing so added an extra row. These are particularly bad now (the old 320 layout used to have slightly more space than the 319). Extra legroom essential on these
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think Ryanair's seats may be thicker than those used by Wizzair and Easyjet, which may explain the discrepancy in knee room.

It depends which Wizz aircraft. The new ones have the same Recaro seating as Jet2 and the reseated easyJet A320s, I *think* at a reasonable pitch. The old ones have hard-backed seats which are really thick and have support pillars at the sides, which are quite thick a bit like the original 158 seats. I actually can't sit down at all in the non-exit-row seats on those, my knees are firmly pressed against the seat in front before my backside gets anywhere near the seat cushion. Terrible.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the future trend is for more LCCs to offer some form of connections. Indeed, all LCCs in North America offer connections through hubs.

Even Megabus offers some connections, albeit not sold as such (i.e. you can't make your own without booking separately)...

 

[jon0844]

they did neither and have lost my custom as a result (although, as I said, I doubt they care).

Maybe not, but if enough people do it.

I stopped flying Ryanair, shopping at Tesco and stopped going to pubs and restaurants that gave me poor service.

Years on, Ryanair is desperately trying to become more customer friendly. So is Tesco, and most of the places I stopped visiting closed down or got new management.

So, sometimes those small protests all 'add up' and pay off.

 

[miami]

On the Ryanair flight my knees were against the seat in front but not the case with easyjet.

I find my knees against the (hard) seat on Pendilinos too, rather fly on ryanair, and they're below even BA. Almost all european airlines are terrible, I try to avoid travel in europe completely. Brussels Airlines are about the only ones I've noticed as being acceptable, and Norweigan were better than I expected. I've heard good things about Turkish too.

This summer's Sydney-Melbourne flight on Qantas in economy for an hour put even BA Club Europe in the shade, and the 3h30 hop to Aukland and back was so much better than an equivelent UK to Athens.

 

[WestCoast]

Since then I have avoided Ryanair entirely, which put me onto Wizzair from Vilnius last month. I approached with some trepidation after a very poor experience on my only other flight with them but I was very pleasantly surprised and will certainly be using them again - Ryanair's loss, although I doubt they care.

Flying Wizzair for the first time tomorrow, on their relatively new Birmingham to Budapest service (a route that used to be served by Ryanair). Flight was very cheap at £24, but they must be the only European carrier where full size cabin bags are an extra fee. Still any airline that opens interesting routes like Doncaster to Vilnius and (formerly) Coventry to Katowice gets my vote!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Flying Wizzair for the first time tomorrow, on their relatively new Birmingham to Budapest service (a route that used to be served by Ryanair). Flight was very cheap at £24, but they must be the only European carrier where full size cabin bags are an extra fee. Still any airline that opens interesting routes like Doncaster to Vilnius and (formerly) Coventry to Katowice gets my vote!

I find they're a bit like Ryanair but in pink. Similar low-quality service and a complete lack of legroom, but cheap.

 

[edwin_m]

The interpretation of large and small bags on Wizzair seems to be rather subjective. I measured beforehand and no "small" bag could contain my "large" laptop, but my large bag was a lot smaller than several others that were tagged "small". They were going to tag mine similarly until I told them I'd paid for it to be large and demanded it was tagged accordingly...

 

[WestCoast]

I find they're a bit like Ryanair but in pink. Similar low-quality service and a complete lack of legroom, but cheap.

Having now flown them, I'd broadly agree. I thought the Hungarian crews were very friendly, professional and super efficient, getting everyone settled very quickly. I noticed that the sales announcements were shorter and less frequent than Ryanair (no scratchcards etc) and they even dimmed the lights so passengers could sleep on the late evening sector.

The interiors are quite smart looking vs the bright yellow and plastic look of Ryanair. However, I'd say it felt more cramped and the slimline seats were not particularly comfortable. I'm not sure I'd like to fly Budapest-Dubai on one of their A320s.

Baggage rules were strictly enforced and payment taken for any excess.