Ryanair and Easyjet

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not an expert in these things, but the flight was from Manchester to Dublin and I was given a coffee, a ham and cheese roll and a KitKat on the outward leg, but just a coffee and another Kit Kat on the return. Nobody else was charged so I can't claim the stewardess took a shine to me!

Very bizarre, Aer Lingus do not offer complimentary snacks on European short-haul flights.

http://www.aerlingus.com/inflight-experience/inflight-dining/within-europe-economy/introducing-bia/
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I was never caught out by Ryanair's sneaky tactics, but I know people that were. They often changed the rules in strange ways deliberately to catch people out

If you're paying attention in the booking process then you won't get caught out, but they're still very sneaky with some of the add-ons. The insurance one in particular is very naughty, hiding "do not require" in the list of countries; choose a country and that's you buying crappy insurance.

 

[northwichcat]

Very bizarre, Aer Lingus do not offer complimentary snacks on European short-haul flights.

http://www.aerlingus.com/inflight-experience/inflight-dining/within-europe-economy/introducing-bia/

In a later post they said

"I flew from Schiphol to Berlin in 2013 with KLM and was slightly surprised to find myself on a small propeller driven plane"

So it was an Aer Lingus plane but a KLM flight.

 

[stut]

Sounds like you were on a KLM flight being operated by an Aer Lingus livered plane for some reason. KLM do offer complimentary refreshments.

Suspect it was Denim Air. They wet leased a bunch of F50s to both Aer Lingus and KLM for a while - you used to see them quite frequently at the "Fokker Farm" (bus gates) at Schiphol. Impressively, their F50s managed to be even more battered than the KLM ones.

 

[WestCoast]

Vueling, the Spanish low cost airline owned by IAG (British Airways and Iberia) are launching an assault on Ryanair and Easyjet by launching new flights from Barcelona to Liverpool, Leeds/Bradford and Newcastle. In addition to their flights to Belfast City, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Manchester and Gatwick.

 

[Aldaniti]

In a later post they said

"I flew from Schiphol to Berlin in 2013 with KLM and was slightly surprised to find myself on a small propeller driven plane"

So it was an Aer Lingus plane but a KLM flight.

No, that was a different flight, I was just making a distinction because I know the Aer Lingus flight from Manchester was a jet aircraft. Probably poorly worded on my part, apologies. Anyway, I think I'm getting a headache now, so I'm going for a lie down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very bizarre, Aer Lingus do not offer complimentary snacks on European short-haul flights.

http://www.aerlingus.com/inflight-experience/inflight-dining/within-europe-economy/introducing-bia/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, all I can say is that I hope they don't decide to invoice me!!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well, all I can say is that I hope they don't decide to invoice me!!

I just wish I was as jammy when I fly to Dublin with them

 

[neilmc]

One thing to bear in mind is that Ryanair is an Irish company - one of the largest Irish companies these days - and as such is primarily accountable to the Irish Aviation Authority not the CAA. Also they've lost a court battle over reports of aircraft having to call mayday with low fuel:

http://avstop.com/april_2014/ryanair_looses_court_battle_over_mayday_mayday_documentary.htm

 

[Robertj21a]

.
I've flown about 200 times with Easyjet or Ryanair. There's little to choose between them nowadays and they don't usually compete on the same routes so you may have only one choice anyway. I've certainly found Ryanair far more likely to be on time that Easyjet but, despite all the scare stories, I've never had a problem with either of them.

Those who rant about Ryanair have either never travelled with them, or have not bothered reading their T's and C's.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those who rant about Ryanair have either never travelled with them, or have not bothered reading their T's and C's.

While I do read their T&Cs and therefore have not been caught out by them (other than having unnecessarily booked two hold bags for a trip coming up because I forgot they now do two hand luggage bags for free), I do think a business that makes money by catching out its customers is extremely questionable.

Fortunately FR themselves have realised this and appear to have improved a lot. Shall be using them in October and hopefully it will be a decent experience.

I have no particular issues with fees for optional services (though I do think airlines create a rod for their hand-luggage backs by charging for the first hold bag) nor a fee that is vaguely related to the cost for re-issuing boarding cards and the likes (the railway's £10 standard admin fee would probably not be wide of the mark), but I do have an issue with punitive catch-people-out type stuff.

 

[WestCoast]

.Those who rant about Ryanair have either never travelled with them, or have not bothered reading their T's and C's.

Alongside those (especially on forums like FlyerTalk) who believe that British Airways is always cheaper after "hidden extras are included" and that passengers are being "conned" by Ryanair and easyJet. Granted short-haul BA can be cheaper especially out of Gatwick to leisure destinations, but this is in my mind because the product is quite similar for those in economy. Given that BA's lowest short-haul fares now do not include a checked hold bag anymore nor the option to select a specific seat without charge and that Ryanair/easyJet have become more transparent in their pricing, I don't think it holds true anymore. If it ever did.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's very mixed - sometimes BA is cheaper, sometimes the orange team is, sometimes the blue and yellow team is. It pays to shop around (based not on the headline fare but on the services you want).

 

[me123]

I think it's very mixed - sometimes BA is cheaper, sometimes the orange team is, sometimes the blue and yellow team is. It pays to shop around (based not on the headline fare but on the services you want).

Very true. When I lived up in Aberdeen, I found the cheapest flight to London was almost invariably Virgin Atlantic (full service to LHR, baggage included, complimentary snacks and booze) compared to easyJet (no frills service to LGW, no baggage, no complimentary food/drink/booze). Yet, people assumed that flying an airline like Virgin to Heathrow would be more expensive. People refused to believe me when I said that the fares on Virgin were often significantly lower than easyJet!

Sadly, in a few weeks that option will have disappeared. VS have withdrawn their domestic offer.

However, in my experience it's often true that legacy carriers are very competitive now. Take my flight in a few weeks from Edinburgh to Amsterdam. I'm flying on KLM, which came in at about £30 cheaper than easyJet. Similarly, when flying to Naples, it was much cheaper to take Brussels airlines (admittedly with a transfer in BRU) than the direct easyJet flight. It's not always the case - a quick search shows the best fares next week from Edinburgh to London are indeed with FR - but it's amazingly common that the budget carriers offer an inferior product at similar prices to their full-fare counterparts.

As such, I'm probably quite unusual in that I've never flown easyJet. It's not out of snobbery - they've simply never offered me the best fare.

I have flown Ryanair once years ago. It was pretty poor, but survivable. The hassle of the whole experience, however, was not worth the fares. I would consider them in certain circumstances, if it weren't for the airline's shocking attitude to its customers and even its own staff. I despise Michael O'Leary with a passion, and I simply refuse to fuel his ego any further by giving him any money.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've flown both airlines over the past few years and not had any serious problems with either. EasyJet is a bit more relaxed I would say.
But Easy blotted its copybook last Friday getting me back from Madrid to Liverpool.
Despite delays at Madrid, we landed only 5 minutes late at 2235.
However, it was on a remote stand, the buses took ages to arrive and it was raining hard.
The buses waited in convoy, and had to wait again as another EasyJet plane landed and taxied up to the terminal.
We were dumped at International Arrivals - a single leaf door with no weather protection, rain cascading down from the piers.
Up the steps and a mile walk to Arrivals, to find the second U2 flight had parked right next to arrivals and had disgorged all its passengers in front of us.
So I found myself 400th in the queue for passports, queuing on the stairs.
Liverpool is so amateurish and old-fashioned at times, it's hard to know if it is the airline or airport at fault, but it took 40 minutes from plane to clearing customs.
I've done that in Manchester in 15 minutes (with hand luggage).
The poor Spanish passengers must have thought they had landed at a 3rd world airport.
They were all queuing for taxis in the rain, the last buses have just finished and displaying "Sorry not in service" as they roared off to the garage.
A sign in arrivals said "Welcome to GREAT Britain". I don't think so.

The LCC policy seems to be to park at remote stands and use buses. Cheap, slow and nasty.
There are some really pleasant small airports though used by FR and U2. Tallinn for instance, and Oslo Rygge.
The big airports are sometimes the worst, where you get the LCC-specific treatment - Lisbon for one.
And neither FR or U2 can serve acceptable coffee, even paying £2.50 for the privilege.
U2 called their service a "bistro" this week.

 

[fowler9]

I've flown both airlines over the past few years and not had any serious problems with either. EasyJet is a bit more relaxed I would say.
But Easy blotted its copybook last Friday getting me back from Madrid to Liverpool.
Despite delays at Madrid, we landed only 5 minutes late at 2235.
However, it was on a remote stand, the buses took ages to arrive and it was raining hard.
The buses waited in convoy, and had to wait again as another EasyJet plane landed and taxied up to the terminal.
We were dumped at International Arrivals - a single leaf door with no weather protection, rain cascading down from the piers.
Up the steps and a mile walk to Arrivals, to find the second U2 flight had parked right next to arrivals and had disgorged all its passengers in front of us.
So I found myself 400th in the queue for passports, queuing on the stairs.
Liverpool is so amateurish and old-fashioned at times, it's hard to know if it is the airline or airport at fault, but it took 40 minutes from plane to clearing customs.
I've done that in Manchester in 15 minutes (with hand luggage).
The poor Spanish passengers must have thought they had landed at a 3rd world airport.
They were all queuing for taxis in the rain, the last buses have just finished and displaying "Sorry not in service" as they roared off to the garage.
A sign in arrivals said "Welcome to GREAT Britain". I don't think so.

The LCC policy seems to be to park at remote stands and use buses. Cheap, slow and nasty.
There are some really pleasant small airports though used by FR and U2. Tallinn for instance, and Oslo Rygge.
The big airports are sometimes the worst, where you get the LCC-specific treatment - Lisbon for one.
And neither FR or U2 can serve acceptable coffee, even paying £2.50 for the privilege.
U2 called their service a "bistro" this week.

I have landed at Manchester with low cost carrier BMI Baby as they were at the time, waited an hour an a half to get through passport control. Waited half an hour to get off the plane. This isn't a Liverpool specific problem. Tallin Airport is really nice as was Wroclaw when it comes to using Ryanair.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And neither FR or U2 can serve acceptable coffee, even paying £2.50 for the privilege.

It's better than the rubbish served on most full-service airlines. And unlike full-service airlines, you don't pay for it if you don't want it.

 

[radamfi]

The LCC policy seems to be to park at remote stands and use buses. Cheap, slow and nasty.

Using an expensive airline at an expensive airport is no guarantee that you will end up at an air bridge.

 

[WestCoast]

Using an expensive airline at an expensive airport is no guarantee that you will end up at an air bridge.

Absolutely, it's dependent on the airport, time of day, handling agent, arrangement with the airport and the aircraft size.

London City, one of the most expensive airports in Europe with lots of business travellers, has no airbridges at all and often uses (tightly packed) bus boarding.
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but it's amazingly common that the budget carriers offer an inferior product at similar prices to their full-fare counterparts.

The product is in my view not always so "inferior" nowadays. On BA's leisure routes out of Gatwick served by high-density A319/A320s (same as easyJet) on routes up to 5 hours or so, the lowest fares offer no free hold luggage allowance nor advance seat selection. The only tangible difference is the complimentary snack and drink onboard and if you're a frequent flyer, the ability to earn a small amount of miles. Most people book only on price on these sorts of routes, and both BA and easyJet understand that well.

In my view, the Norwegian product with a brand new fleet and free Wi-Fi onboard is in some ways better than BA.

In any case, more competition is good for everyone. If Ryanair, easyJet, Jet2, Vueling, Norwegian, Volotea etc etc didn't exist, then the legacy carriers such as BA and KLM would not be offering such good rates!

 

[jon0844]

Part of your decision should be based on what an airline will do if things go wrong. In my experience, Ryanair will palm you off. Easyjet has also left me high and dry (admittedly it did lose virtually all flights that day due to its own computer failure, and decided to further delay people let down on that one day than risk affecting others - and I was lucky enough to get a flight with another carrier).

BA on the other hand has not yet delayed me, but has delayed close friends and family and people are quickly put up in a hotel if necessary, given the full compensation (without fuss) and meal vouchers etc.

It's clearly a gamble and in most cases nothing untoward is going to happen on your flight, but I suppose you have to bear it in mind. If it's just a simple holiday break and life won't end if you're messed up, that's fine. If it's for that life changing business deal or wedding... (of course, you might just plan to go a bit earlier too!).

 

[WestCoast]

Part of your decision should be based on what an airline will do if things go wrong. In my experience, Ryanair will palm you off. Easyjet has also left me high and dry (admittedly it did lose virtually all flights that day due to its own computer failure, and decided to further delay people let down on that one day than risk affecting others - and I was lucky enough to get a flight with another carrier).

BA on the other hand has not yet delayed me, but has delayed close friends and family and people are quickly put up in a hotel if necessary, given the full compensation (without fuss) and meal vouchers etc.

It's clearly a gamble and in most cases nothing untoward is going to happen on your flight, but I suppose you have to bear it in mind. If it's just a simple holiday break and life won't end if you're messed up, that's fine. If it's for that life changing business deal or wedding... (of course, you might just plan to go a bit earlier too!).

it's a good point, but on the flip side of the coin how many cancellations as a result of industrial action have legacy carrier Lufthansa's short-haul passengers endured this year? An awful lot. I was Birmingham Airport this Wednesday and both morning departures to Frankfurt and Munich were cancelled. Some rebooked onto my Flybe flight, but all were delayed.

When the ash cloud hit, the airline that many praised was budget carrier Jet2, who put on buses for their passengers to bring them back from Spain.


A good travel insurance policy is essential whoever you fly with.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Actually I've found that Ryanair's policy when it comes to disruption or a destination airport being closed and diversions to be vastly superior to that of the flag carriers, which tends to be very much related to what is in the best interests of staff and being what's best for the airline.

For example, it's Ryanair's policy to divert to the nearest open available airport that can accept a diversion. Ryanair HQ will then arrange onward ground transport either through the handling agents if it's an airport not served by Ryanair normally, directly with local transport companies.

A lot of the flag carriers tend to go for either the nearest base to the original destination, or the nearest airport regularly served by the carrier. This allows passengers to be palmed off onto local handling agents, rather than the flag carrier having to actually arrange something themselves.

A good illustration is flights from Dublin to Warsaw.

Ryanair fly to Warsaw Modlin. First diversion airport option, Warsaw Chopin, followed by Lodz (120km from Warsaw), Lublin (169km), Poznan (310km). The first three options also allow provisions for operating the return flight from that airport, in the case of Chopin airport, from an airport they don't serve.

Aer Lingus serve Chopin Airport. Under their diversion policy, their first choice diversionary airport is Berlin (572km) with the other option being turn back or not operate the flight at all if there is worries about weather. This policy clearly saves Aer Lingus the hassle of having to arrange transport at an airport they don't normally serve.

 

[jon0844]

But in the distant past, Ryanair has been accused of giving people refunds and leaving them stranded. One of the supposed tricks of treating all flights as singles, so having no requirement to get anyone home.

Ryanair will still offer a refund now, but I suspect it can't legally force you to accept it. In some cases, such as one I said before (deciding to visit family for a short break, but where you could just cancel and reschedule) that would be better than waiting to fly later, or flying to another airport.

 

[WestCoast]

EU261 / 2004 regulation comes into play nowadays, which gives comprehensive rights to passengers and obligations to all EU airlines in times of disruption. Certainly more rights than Eurostar passengers have!

Right to reimbursement or re-routing

This is most important whilst your delay is actually happening and your flight is being affected. It’s really valuable to know your rights before you travel so that you’re well informed as to your entitlements should you experience a delay.

If your flight is cancelled then the airline may offer to put you on an alternative flight. If you miss your connecting flight then the airline might book you onto the next flight leaving for your intended final destination. If you are delayed overnight then the airline should put you up in a hotel room and pay for transport to/from the airport.

Right to care and assistance

Again, your right to care and assistance from the airline comes into play whilst you are actually being delayed. This right applies to delays, even if they are caused by what the regulation calls an ‘extraordinary circumstance’.

The right to care and assistance kicks in after two hours for flights up to 1500km; after three hours for flights between 1500-3500km; and after four hours for flights over 3500km. This element of the regulation entitles you to:

Food and drink in reasonable relation to the waiting time
Hotel accommodation if you need to stay overnight
Transport between the airport and hotel (if necessary)
Two telephone calls/telex/fax messages/emails

http://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-delay-compensation/claim-guides/eu-regulation-261-2004#WHAT

https://www.ryanair.com/doc/faqs/eu261-gb.pdf

In times of mass flight cancellations, staff can become overwhelmed and supply of hotel rooms can run out etc, but any reasonable costs from the passenger's side should be met by the airline.

 

[jon0844]

At Gatwick, Easyjet staff very quickly disappeared but people from Menzies were handing out a badly photocopied bit of paper saying what rights they had.

I do understand that Easyjet didn't want more disrupted passengers, but it also means that if you're delayed then they'd rather delay you loads than anyone extra. As such, some people were being told it could be days before they would fly.

In my case, I was lucky to be going to Barcelona with a company that paid for me to travel BA (first class as it turned out, as it was the only available flight) first thing the next morning, and put me up in a hotel, plus the transfers. I don't know how much of that was reimbursed by Easyjet, and didn't wait the many days others took to get their flights.

 

[stut]

Ryanair will palm you off.

Wasn't this part of their promised long-haul business class service?

 

[jon0844]

Wasn't this part of their promised long-haul business class service?

Haha. Ah, yes, beer and blowjobs! Classic.

 

[Robertj21a]

But in the distant past, Ryanair has been accused of giving people refunds and leaving them stranded. One of the supposed tricks of treating all flights as singles, so having no requirement to get anyone home.

Ryanair will still offer a refund now, but I suspect it can't legally force you to accept it. In some cases, such as one I said before (deciding to visit family for a short break, but where you could just cancel and reschedule) that would be better than waiting to fly later, or flying to another airport.

I have to say that Ryanair was exemplary when that volcanic ash cloud messed up numerous flights, of all operators. I was due to fly with Ryanair and wrote an e-mail confirming that I had been affected - a reply within 24 hours confirmed that my payments would be refunded to my bank account, as they were.

 

[northwichcat]

I have to say that Ryanair was exemplary when that volcanic ash cloud messed up numerous flights, of all operators. I was due to fly with Ryanair and wrote an e-mail confirming that I had been affected - a reply within 24 hours confirmed that my payments would be refunded to my bank account, as they were.

Yet Ryanair were taken to the European court for the way they treated people who were stuck abroad during the crisis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yet Ryanair were taken to the European court for the way they treated people who were stuck abroad during the crisis.

To be honest I agreed with Ryanair. The circumstances were exceptional and totally outside their control, so I saw no reason why they should have been forced to pay for hotels for an indefinite period until air traffic was able to resume. If it was felt that they should have been paid for as a social service to stranded people, that is a matter for the Government, not an airline.

The most they should perhaps have considered providing was the ability to kip on stationary aircraft / in airport terminals on the floor, with food at the passenger's cost.

 

[northwichcat]

To be honest I agreed with Ryanair. The circumstances were exceptional and totally outside their control, so I saw no reason why they should have been forced to pay for hotels for an indefinite period until air traffic was able to resume. If it was felt that they should have been paid for as a social service to stranded people, that is a matter for the Government, not an airline.

The most they should perhaps have considered providing was the ability to kip on stationary aircraft / in airport terminals on the floor, with food at the passenger's cost.

As it was a legal requirement for Ryanair to provide such provision surely Ryanair would have been insured to cover such instances?

Which government should have covered the problem in your opinion? A number of trans-atlantic flights got diverted to Turkey because it was impartial for them to turn back or to land in any country affected by the ash cloud. Would Turkey pay up? Would other countries then compensate them (despite Turkey not being a full EU member)?

 

[gazthomas]

Using an expensive airline at an expensive airport is no guarantee that you will end up at an air bridge.

In Dubai recently both of my Emirates 777s were parked some distance from the terminal and involved quite long bus trips