Rules regarding power socket usage

[hacman]

If you make a habit of using these, invest in a couple of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAPTOP-IN...Accessories_PowerSupplies&hash=item56517616f1

There is a very good chance this will not work - the specs do not mention the sensitivity of the device, so its possible it will only arrest surges from the likes of lightning strikes and such. It will also do nothing to protect your equipment from "dirty" power, or sags.

Either way, DO NOT use these sockets. They are clearly not for public use, either lacking a sign advising that you may use them, or having a label of some kind saying otherwise. Not to mention the fact that many of them are not in areas where you would expect to find a plug socket for passenger use.

Regardless - you are plugging your equipment into a socket located in private premises without permission. Would you go into ASDA and use one of their plugs? Or how about when you're waiting at the Post Office... The list goes on, and for this reason plus more I'd say legally the chances of a TOC being held responsible for damage are minimal.

My job often requires me to use such sockets (they're not just used for cleaning equipment), and if people keep using them, then we will likely see T-Key locked covers or Walsall fittings put in place. This will drive costs for the railway up, and make the lives of some staff pointlessly difficult.

Jon

 

[edwin_m]

excuse my ignorance but why would voltage be lower at a major station? don't you need more power when accelerating/setting off?

The 25kV voltage will fluctuate, being lower if more trains are drawing power particularly when further away from a feeder station. It can also increase if several trains happen to be using regenerative braking. The same is true of the third rail but over much shorter distances. This won't necessarily correlate with stations or depots.

 

[pablo]

....Are you suggesting the TOC would be liable for any failings of the TM to restrict the use of the socket? If so, I still think any claim for damage to electrical equipment would fail because of the disclaimer sign (and the sign being reasonable having regard to the circumstances in which it is displayed).

No. VL is no fault. No matter what circumstances, the TOC would be liable, not withstanding disclaimers, preventative action, et seq. Unless the railway industry is an exception by statute. Quite possible. I don't know.
Would make an interesting test case and possibly establish some case law.

 

[NSEFAN]

No. VL is no fault. No matter what circumstances, the TOC would be liable, not withstanding disclaimers, preventative action, et seq. Unless the railway industry is an exception by statute. Quite possible. I don't know.
Would make an interesting test case and possibly establish some case law.

Would that mean that the TOC is liable for the passenger deliberately ignoring a notice above the socket, clearly saying "Not for public use", and subsequently zapping their expensive laptop?

 

[michael769]

Would that mean that the TOC is liable for the passenger deliberately ignoring a notice above the socket, clearly saying "Not for public use", and subsequently zapping their expensive laptop?

It would be somewhat hard to make that case. At the very least such a claimant could expect to face a counter claim from the ToC alledging theft.

I seem to recall there is some case law out there that establishes that using a power socket without the owner's consent is theft of electricity. Failing that the ToC could use byelaw 11 (unauthorised intereference with railway equipment) or byelaw 12 (failure to comply with a safety notice).

I think it is safe to say that unless there was a fatality or injury the chances of such a claim going the distance would be very alim indeed.

 

[broadgage]

The U.K. pressure has been 220-230 for some time now.

The declared or nominal voltage in the UK used to be 240 volts, plus or minus 6% so the permitted range was from 226 volts up to 254 volts.

Some years ago this was changed to a nominal 230 volts with a tolerance of plus 10% and minus 6%, so the permitted range is now from 216 volts up to 253 volts.

The actual voltage supplied most of the time in most places is still about 240 volts, which is well within both the old and new ranges.

The change from 240 volts to 230 volts was only a paper excercise, no one went round to each substation and actualy altered anything.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. Failing that the ToC could use byelaw 11 (unauthorised intereference with railway equipment) or byelaw 12 (failure to comply with a safety notice).

I think it is safe to say that unless there was a fatality or injury the chances of such a claim going the distance would be very alim indeed.

Should probably be another thread but was wondering, if said safety notices were removed by some miscreant how would one then stand if you burnt your hand after the hair dryer you were using caught alight ?

 

[broadgage]

Should probably be another thread but was wondering, if said safety notices were removed by some miscreant how would one then stand if you burnt your hand after the hair dryer you were using caught alight ?

I would think that the claim, if any, would be against the supplier of the hairdryer. It should work correctly at up to 253 volts (the nominal 230 volt supply, plus 10%)
And even in the event of misuse, such appliances should fail in a safe way perhaps by the melting of an internal fusible link, and not catch fire.

 

[dysonsphere]

The declared or nominal voltage in the UK used to be 240 volts, plus or minus 6% so the permitted range was from 226 volts up to 254 volts.

Some years ago this was changed to a nominal 230 volts with a tolerance of plus 10% and minus 6%, so the permitted range is now from 216 volts up to 253 volts.

The actual voltage supplied most of the time in most places is still about 240 volts, which is well within both the old and new ranges.

The change from 240 volts to 230 volts was only a paper excercise, no one went round to each substation and actualy altered anything.

It was only done to keep the EU happy

 

[jon0844]

Surely not just to keep the EU happy but make it easier to trade goods between member states, including British manufacturers selling products elsewhere in the EU.

 

[route:oxford]

Would that mean that the TOC is liable for the passenger deliberately ignoring a notice above the socket, clearly saying "Not for public use", and subsequently zapping their expensive laptop?

I really do doubt that anything would be "zapped" other than the adapter/power supply. Aren't these sockets also used to charge up the portable ticket machines?

Besides. When I'm on the train, I'm not a member of public, I'm a paying customer...

 

[The Barlow Boy]

I've used these sockets to charge up both my mobile telephone and my sat-nav for years. No harm has ever come to them. The only reason that they're labelled thus is because they're down by the doors and the TOC doesn't want trailing wires and stuff by doors causing a potential hazard. If anything does happen to equipment that a paying passenger plugs in the get out clause is the label.

 

[rebmcr]

I've used these sockets to charge up both my mobile telephone and my sat-nav for years. No harm has ever come to them. The only reason that they're labelled thus is because they're down by the doors and the TOC doesn't want trailing wires and stuff by doors causing a potential hazard. If anything does happen to equipment that a paying passenger plugs in the get out clause is the label.

[citation needed]

 

[A-driver]

I've used these sockets to charge up both my mobile telephone and my sat-nav for years. No harm has ever come to them. The only reason that they're labelled thus is because they're down by the doors and the TOC doesn't want trailing wires and stuff by doors causing a potential hazard. If anything does happen to equipment that a paying passenger plugs in the get out clause is the label.

Wrong I'm afraid. Being that a train picks up power as it moves its not a steady current and has been known to damage phones. A driver at our place had his mobile stop working be side he was charging it on the cab socket of a 313.

You have been lucky so far but should anything be damaged then the railway will accept no responsibility whatsoever.

And they arnt all by the doors-many are ticked away under seats.

 

[broadgage]

Surely not just to keep the EU happy but make it easier to trade goods between member states, including British manufacturers selling products elsewhere in the EU.

In theory, yes, but in practice it has not helped that much.
Much of mainland Europe previously used 220 volts nominal, the plus or minus tolerance varying between countries.
Such countries are now on a nominal or declared 230 volts, plus 6% and minus 10%. The actual voltage supplied is still 220 volts most of the time in most places.

So all of the EU is now on 230 volts, but the UK 230 volts (240 in reality) is a lot more than the Italian 230 volts (220 in reality)

And the limits are from 207 volts in former 220 volt countries up to 253 volts in former 240 volt countries.
So appliances have to be designed to work over a range from 197 volts at the point of use in southern Europe (5% voltage drop in the house wiring from a supply at the lower limit of 207 volts) Up to 256 volts in the UK (slight voltage rise due to grid tied solar panels on the house, and a supply at the upper limit)

A modern switched mode power supply as used for IT equipment will be fine, many work from inputs between 90 volts and 270.

To design a conventional appliance to work correctly over the range from 197 volts up to 256 volts is challenging.